147 grain 9mm smack down

S

Super-Dave

New member
It seems based on penetration and expansion the 147 grain 9mm easily out does the 124 grain or 115 grains wheather +p or even +p+

So why isnt the 147 grain more popular for police or for individual personal protection?
 
9mm Parabellum (9mm Luger,9x19mm, 9mm NATO, or simply "9mm")

This is unquestionably the world's most popular pistol round. For this reason it has been the subject of a lot of experimentation, because 9mm ball - used by every army in the Western world - is a mediocre manstopper. Jacketed hollowpoints are a must if one wishes to rely on the 9mm as a defense round. Use ball ammo for practice only.

9mm ammunition is available in two pressure levels: standard and "+P." The latter should only be used in newer guns (made since 1985 or so), and is best used sparingly. I will deal here with only commercially available ammunition: there are specialized loads available only to law enforcement personnel. Civilians should not worry, as there are commercial loads as good or better than anything restricted to law enforcement usage.

I will now tell you the best 9mm Luger load for self-defense: it is the Cor-Bon 9mm 115 grain +P Jacketed Hollowpoint. This is the most powerful and street-proven manstopper available in this caliber. It is a high velocity (1340 fps) and high pressure round, and more effective than any load restricted to law enforcement use (such as the Federal 9BPLE).

Unfortunately, it is also likely to jam many older guns. For this reason I add a table at the end of the 9mm section discussing round suitability for different guns. Modern hollowpoints may either (a) jam, or (b) be too powerful for some older guns. This load is suitable only for First Class pistols (see table).

The best standard pressure 9mm load is the Federal 115 grain JHP (9BP). Its effectiveness and accuracy make it the world standard. Buy several boxes. Other excellent standard pressure 9mm loads are the Winchester Silvertip 115 grain (X9MMSHP), and Federal 124 grain Hydra-shok (P9HS1).

For guns that may jam with the Cor-Bon or Federal 115 grain hollow-points, the Remington 115 grain +P JHP is a good choice (R9MM6). For older guns I would use the Remington standard pressure 115 gr. JHP (R9MM1).

Now it is time to impart some crucial information: NEVER use 147 grain ammo in a 9mm pistol! There was a stupid fad for 147 grain hollowpoints a few years ago, and many were suckered into buying these weak, worthless and malfunction-prone rounds. I don't care what you've heard: never use any 9mm hollowpoint heavier than 125 grains. 147 grain hollowpoints often jam in many popular 9mm guns like the Browning Hi-Power, SIG, Beretta 92, S&W and Glock. Ignore the gun magazine hype and stick to what works. If you want to gamble, go to Reno. Don't gamble with your life. 147 grain ammo sucks

http://www.chuckhawks.com/ammo_by_anonymous.htm
 
Because it's has always been the worst performing 9mm HP out there. Starting with the Olin Super Match HP, adopted by the FBI after the Miami shoot out. Plenty penetration, except when heavy bone was hit, and very little expansion no matter what was hit. It was an interim bullet while the FBI looked for something better. Many LE agencies adopted it, and it became America's politically correct police bullet.

The 147 has underperformed the 115 and 124 gr. HP's on the street for decades. Even as bullet technology got better, the other bullet weights stayed ahead of it where "stopping power" was concerned.

Don't want to start a multi-page argument, since some swear by it because they like the deep penetration it offers (even with little expansion).

In fairness, we have better bullet technology now, and I suspect the 147 gr. HST might solve any previous issues related to ineffectiveness of the 147 gr. I'd carry the 147 gr. HST, but still prefer the 124 gr.--- or DPX, which has plenty of expansion with lots of penetration. Not called the Deep Penetrating X Bullet for nothing.
 
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I've carried a 9mm on duty(pistols and submachineguns) the last couple of decades...no damn way I'm goin to carry 147gr if I have any say in it at all. The only initial use for 147 gr was with suppressors....thats what the SEALs were using the Olin Match L round
for anyway(50yd head shots with MP5's with muzzle cans)...it was hollow point to enhance accuracy/ wasn't made to expand. At best most 147gr 9mm is a reinvention of 158grRNL .38 special.
While there has been great effort expended to make them work..its still a sows ear, never will be a silk purse as the saying goes.

I was in Law Enforcement at the time of the Miami Shootout, and was around to see all the flip floppy caca that went on to blame the whole thing on 9mm rather than the agents initiating a gunfight they werent prepared for, and the bad guys were.

If you ever worked for a Federal agency, you would see why I don't get weak in the knees starstruck when the gun toting accountants at FBI decide on the flavor of the week.(I worked for Homeland Security , and Treasury Dept.)
 
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In fairness, we have better bullet technology now, and I suspect the 147 gr. HST might solve any previous issues related to ineffectiveness of the 147 gr. I'd carry the 147 gr. HST, but still prefer the 124 gr.--- or DPX, which has plenty of expansion with lots of penetration. Not called the Deep Penetrating X Bullet for nothing.
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+1 the Ranger T-series 147gr work pretty good too.It's my choice for a standard pressure load.
 
I shoot nothing but 147 grain Federal Tactical. I've shot thousands of rounds of this stuff and never had a hiccup with either my gen. 3 Glock 17, 4x Sig P225's, 3x Hk P7's, XDm, Hk P2000, and Sig P250. No failures of any kind in those handguns. There are probably others. I trust my life with the stuff no questions asked. By the way, my dept. has issued 147 grain for probably 15 years or more.
 
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HST 147 manditory carry for my dept., the tech has come a LONG way since the Super match. Wound channels are nealy the same as .45 JHP at close range and penitration deeper at range. Best there is? No. Get the job done, Oh ya.
 
So why isnt the 147 grain more popular for police or for individual personal protection?
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Perhaps because the 147 has a very poor reputation for reliable expansion. Some newer rounds (like the HST) are beginning to overcome that p!$$-poor reputation, but it will take a while for many of us to trust it...
 
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The original 147 was designed for a subsonic , accurate round for an SMG. Expansion was NOT a design factor. So they performed poorly in pistols for normal police use. The second generation ones did do a lot better. I'll stick to the 115-125 rounds .
 
At best most 147gr 9mm is a reinvention of 158grRNL .38 special.
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Ironically, the very cartridge it was supposed to "replace."

9mm Luger was invented at the dawn of the smokeless powder era. At that time, it was mistakenly believed that "speed kills." Fortunately, JHPs require higher velocities to peform correctly, so they help the 9mm Luger tremendously. The problem is that the 147gr loading has to really push the pressure envelope to reach minimal 9mm Luger velocities.

Some other problems:
1) They can cause hold-open on older designs, because the difference in the bullet profile and/or OAL causes the bullet to nudge the slide-stop.
2) 9mm handguns have rates of twist as slow as 1:12 or even 1:16 in some rare cases. That's much slower than ideal for 147 gr. Newer designs are always 1:10 or faster for this reason.
 
147grn 9mm got a bad reputation when it first came out in the late 80's and early 90's for poor and/or unreliable expansion. The bullet designs then available just couldn't expand well or reliably at the low-for-caliber velocities that 147's are normally driven at. Newer bullet designs allow the 147grn 9mm to perform much better.
 
Why no Hushpuppies...

I'm not a huge fan or supporter of the 147gr 9x19mm rounds because of the problems/issues many US law enforcement agencies had in the early 1990s.
In one active shooter event(I think in TX) a violent subject was shot once with a SWAT cop's 9mm JHP(147gr). The round went completely through the subject and lodged deep inside a wall. Crime scene techs pulled the 147gr bullet out and to their surprise, the 147gr JHP bullet was FULLY intact! Police and CSI techs reported the recovered 147gr bullet could be reloaded and fired again.
To me the 124/125/127gr wt in a +P or +P+ makes a lot more sense in 9mmNATO. Bonded rounds if available. Ranger T, Speer Gold Dot, Golden Saber(bonded).

Clyde
ps: the sub-sonic 147gr 9mm loads were developed for SEALs to "smoke-check" enemy guard dogs in SE Asia with surpressed pistols/SMGs. Thus this tag; "hush-puppies". ;)
 
I will now tell you the best 9mm Luger load for self-defense: it is the Cor-Bon 9mm 115 grain +P Jacketed Hollowpoint.
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Hmmmmmm.......... The best? Sweet. Thanks.

Either way, it is a good round. I'd take it over any flavor or 147 any day.
 
dynamic impact

There is something unscientific about the demonstrated effectiveness of a fast .355--.357" 124/125/127g JHP on humans.

I mean, recently, SIG and Federal bet a big stack of money on that very concept: "demonstrated effectiveness".
They didn't do it with a 147g bullet, ay?
 
I use Rem golden saber 147gr JHP. according to brassfetcher.com....it acheives 13" penetration and .60 expansion.

some of you think this is unacceptable???:confused:

I carry it with confidence. YMMV.
 
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