FirstFreedom
Moderator
You could call it the Paris Gun - it should reach Paris, Texas from Dallas.
12GA Rifle From Hell
- Thread starter HUBEL458
- Start date
You could call it the Paris Gun - it should reach Paris, Texas from Dallas.
Shot NEF with the RL-25 load, 600 gr.Got 3
shots in 4 inches at 50 yds, with aperture sights and my bad eyes.Got barrel extension
made and will get it on in next couple weeks.
NEF and Original Sav barrel have same twist and grooves, so I am putting heavy part of
left over barrel to good use.I hate shorty barrels.Ed
shots in 4 inches at 50 yds, with aperture sights and my bad eyes.Got barrel extension
made and will get it on in next couple weeks.
NEF and Original Sav barrel have same twist and grooves, so I am putting heavy part of
left over barrel to good use.I hate shorty barrels.Ed
We got recoil now-Got a 1050 gr
Bridger over 2200 fps in the Savage.
I took the hollow base 750 gr Bridgers
made for me, and wedged in .500 caliber
slugs(I took out of 12ga sabot)in the base.
Added 300 gr. I was going to melt lead and put in,
but this was easier about 5 seconds,
after 15 seconds shortening nose on grinder
of .500 slug.Ed
Bridger over 2200 fps in the Savage.
I took the hollow base 750 gr Bridgers
made for me, and wedged in .500 caliber
slugs(I took out of 12ga sabot)in the base.
Added 300 gr. I was going to melt lead and put in,
but this was easier about 5 seconds,
after 15 seconds shortening nose on grinder
of .500 slug.Ed
Compared to this mines pussycat.
Rob shot a few 1000 grain Bridgers at 3250 fps
and he said he couldn't go any higher as recoil
was "severe". His Borchardt is 24 lbs, and can take
any pressure you could load for it and still
hang on. Cartridges of this size really gets
the juices flowing at over 23,000 ft lbs..Ed
Rob shot a few 1000 grain Bridgers at 3250 fps
and he said he couldn't go any higher as recoil
was "severe". His Borchardt is 24 lbs, and can take
any pressure you could load for it and still
hang on. Cartridges of this size really gets
the juices flowing at over 23,000 ft lbs..Ed
Practical use of 12ga. Rifle
My interest is loading some 730 gr.Dixie Slugs I have for a Rem. 870 pump for Alaska raft gun. Loaded to just 1200 fps. This takes only about 42-44 gr. of Blue Dot, in 20 inch barrel. And according to Dixie, equals the Paradox rifle loads of yesterday in Africa, which did the job on Elephants. But, the plastic roll crimped rounds just don't look like the brass ones I see here. I'm thinking about those Rocky Mountain 2 7/8" brass cases. Now, what would I use to crimp the Dixie slugs into those???? Will the freebore of the 3" chamber Hastings Barrel I have, work OK with shorter 2 7/8" shell? And, would the proposed Jacketed Hawk bullets work with the standard 12 ga. rifling?? As I remember, shotguns of this type are limited to about 10-11,000 psi? I'm thinking that 1000 gr. bullet might be a pressure problem, in the Remington pump. Oh, and what plastic wad cup makes good sabot for .620 Nitro Express bullets?
My interest is loading some 730 gr.Dixie Slugs I have for a Rem. 870 pump for Alaska raft gun. Loaded to just 1200 fps. This takes only about 42-44 gr. of Blue Dot, in 20 inch barrel. And according to Dixie, equals the Paradox rifle loads of yesterday in Africa, which did the job on Elephants. But, the plastic roll crimped rounds just don't look like the brass ones I see here. I'm thinking about those Rocky Mountain 2 7/8" brass cases. Now, what would I use to crimp the Dixie slugs into those???? Will the freebore of the 3" chamber Hastings Barrel I have, work OK with shorter 2 7/8" shell? And, would the proposed Jacketed Hawk bullets work with the standard 12 ga. rifling?? As I remember, shotguns of this type are limited to about 10-11,000 psi? I'm thinking that 1000 gr. bullet might be a pressure problem, in the Remington pump. Oh, and what plastic wad cup makes good sabot for .620 Nitro Express bullets?
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The TC 12ga muzzle loading shotcups are what I used
for 600NE slugs. Beveled sides bullet base to set them into
cup ok. They aren't real tight fit, and accuracy won't
be the best.Using Rocky Mtn cases, that freebore won't matter.
If 2 7/8 cases feed from magazine your ok.
May have to cut it back as I think 3 inch chamber guns have
plastic cases 2 3/4 inches when crimped.As for crimping,
our cases have enough tension in the neck to make a
tight fit on slug.Then run mouth into die to close
the brass a little tighter. And I have the front corner of case rounded on the front edge to give
smooth feeding.
The 1000 gr slugs may not stabilize if twist is too slow. My savage is 1 to 20, and would work.Pressure would be a problem in load developement in guns of Rem,Mossberg,etc pump
action types.That is why 730gr Dixie is nice.Ed
for 600NE slugs. Beveled sides bullet base to set them into
cup ok. They aren't real tight fit, and accuracy won't
be the best.Using Rocky Mtn cases, that freebore won't matter.
If 2 7/8 cases feed from magazine your ok.
May have to cut it back as I think 3 inch chamber guns have
plastic cases 2 3/4 inches when crimped.As for crimping,
our cases have enough tension in the neck to make a
tight fit on slug.Then run mouth into die to close
the brass a little tighter. And I have the front corner of case rounded on the front edge to give
smooth feeding.
The 1000 gr slugs may not stabilize if twist is too slow. My savage is 1 to 20, and would work.Pressure would be a problem in load developement in guns of Rem,Mossberg,etc pump
action types.That is why 730gr Dixie is nice.Ed
Dixie slugs/brass cases
TC? is that Thompson Center, do you slit them?
Dave, at Rocky Mt. seems to be very concerned about my chamber measurement as to selling me brass, and wants me to send him a casting measurement of my Hastings chamber. I can't believe the length or diameter is that critical, with straight wall, rimmed low pressure. He also contends his brass does not take to crimping. When you say run into die, what die?? I would think regular shotgun dies would not press brass against bullet tight enough for the recoil they have to stand in the magazine tube of a pump, without actually crimping into one of the grooves on bullet. Wonder if a Mec sizer tool could squeeze em enough?? Dave believes putting the slug inside brass case with glued wad over it is the correct loading, but I think that squared off sharp brass wouldn't chamber as easy as the rounded lead. And I might as well save my money and just load in plastic if that is true. After all, part of this exercise is to have a round that looks like it's for a mean rifle
How are your loads for the Chinese 1885 replica holding up under recoil in it's tube with the Dixie Terminator slug? That's still a smooth bore isn't it? Was that 600gr. in the 1887 a saboted round or something else?
TC? is that Thompson Center, do you slit them?
Dave, at Rocky Mt. seems to be very concerned about my chamber measurement as to selling me brass, and wants me to send him a casting measurement of my Hastings chamber. I can't believe the length or diameter is that critical, with straight wall, rimmed low pressure. He also contends his brass does not take to crimping. When you say run into die, what die?? I would think regular shotgun dies would not press brass against bullet tight enough for the recoil they have to stand in the magazine tube of a pump, without actually crimping into one of the grooves on bullet. Wonder if a Mec sizer tool could squeeze em enough?? Dave believes putting the slug inside brass case with glued wad over it is the correct loading, but I think that squared off sharp brass wouldn't chamber as easy as the rounded lead. And I might as well save my money and just load in plastic if that is true. After all, part of this exercise is to have a round that looks like it's for a mean rifle
How are your loads for the Chinese 1885 replica holding up under recoil in it's tube with the Dixie Terminator slug? That's still a smooth bore isn't it? Was that 600gr. in the 1887 a saboted round or something else?
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RCBS coming out with 12ga. dies for rifle press
Just talked to RCBS and Magtech both said 12ga. dies for brass shells are on the way by fall. And these will put a roll crimp on shells. Will fit Rockchucker with 7/8-14 bushing removed. So, now I need a good sabot for a .620NE Hawk bullet.................Perhaps a regular 12 Ga. shot cup with an extra teflon wrap from BP .010, to make it tighter in bore?????
Just talked to RCBS and Magtech both said 12ga. dies for brass shells are on the way by fall. And these will put a roll crimp on shells. Will fit Rockchucker with 7/8-14 bushing removed. So, now I need a good sabot for a .620NE Hawk bullet.................Perhaps a regular 12 Ga. shot cup with an extra teflon wrap from BP .010, to make it tighter in bore?????
180Pilot- Those shotcups are slit to start with.
Maybe Rocky Mtn wants to make sure that your chamber isn't short
as with brass it could raise pressures.If you have
a set of inside mikes you could also measure where the
forcing cone starts.I found an old set of 1.5 inch thread
big Hollywood 12ga dies.Mine has no trouble holding slugs
against recoil.It's smoothbore with cylinder bore.
The 600 gr is a hardened hollowbase Dixie slug.I plan on one
with a longer heavy rifled barrel, hate short barrels.
In the TC shotcup the 600NE slug perhaps could be paper
patched tighter.If we can find a supply of 50 cal sabots, like used in Federal Barnes saboted 12ga loads, we could
use the front half of surplus 50 cal borerider bullets,
shown in picture next to barnes saboted copper slug.
Third in picture is Asquare 600NE in sabot.Ed
Maybe Rocky Mtn wants to make sure that your chamber isn't short
as with brass it could raise pressures.If you have
a set of inside mikes you could also measure where the
forcing cone starts.I found an old set of 1.5 inch thread
big Hollywood 12ga dies.Mine has no trouble holding slugs
against recoil.It's smoothbore with cylinder bore.
The 600 gr is a hardened hollowbase Dixie slug.I plan on one
with a longer heavy rifled barrel, hate short barrels.
In the TC shotcup the 600NE slug perhaps could be paper
patched tighter.If we can find a supply of 50 cal sabots, like used in Federal Barnes saboted 12ga loads, we could
use the front half of surplus 50 cal borerider bullets,
shown in picture next to barnes saboted copper slug.
Third in picture is Asquare 600NE in sabot.Ed
Dixie Slugs/brass cases
I only have 50 Dixie 730gr. Terminators left, and James Gates told me he's not selling them any longer.. I'm thinking of machining an old Lee hand loader die to so the bullet can pass into the top passage and let the crimping ring swage the lip of a Magtech brass case into the grease groove as I squeeze it in a vise or drill press ram. But, then when these Dixies are gone?????? I have to come up with another hard lead bullet. Hows the workmanship on that Norinco 1887. It looks stronger then a modern pump for sure. I called Barnes about those Sabots, no luck they won't sell em.
I only have 50 Dixie 730gr. Terminators left, and James Gates told me he's not selling them any longer.. I'm thinking of machining an old Lee hand loader die to so the bullet can pass into the top passage and let the crimping ring swage the lip of a Magtech brass case into the grease groove as I squeeze it in a vise or drill press ram. But, then when these Dixies are gone?????? I have to come up with another hard lead bullet. Hows the workmanship on that Norinco 1887. It looks stronger then a modern pump for sure. I called Barnes about those Sabots, no luck they won't sell em.
Esquire M Busterbury
Moderator
I just had a crazy idea...Imagine a magazine of your stuff in a saiga 12GA. Might take a little 'customizing' but the end result would knock your socks off (along with your most of your innards).
cheaper 12 gage bullet for brass shells
Idea:
Cheap Lee foster slug mold 7/8 oz. ($18 with handles), machine off the inside form, so bullet is solid, and about 750 grs. then pour with harder linotype lead. With the .682 diameter, it's designed for a standard trap wad cup for the sabot. So, I don't know about how it will crimp in brass yet, as the Magtechs inside are about a 11ga wad size. I suppose I can just cut the wad cup off to hold bullet, and use 11 ga. Circle Fly nitro cards and wads. Then tight crimp against the plastic cup with bullet protruding.
Idea:
Cheap Lee foster slug mold 7/8 oz. ($18 with handles), machine off the inside form, so bullet is solid, and about 750 grs. then pour with harder linotype lead. With the .682 diameter, it's designed for a standard trap wad cup for the sabot. So, I don't know about how it will crimp in brass yet, as the Magtechs inside are about a 11ga wad size. I suppose I can just cut the wad cup off to hold bullet, and use 11 ga. Circle Fly nitro cards and wads. Then tight crimp against the plastic cup with bullet protruding.
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Shot 12 double ought buckshot in 1887.
That's 624 grains worth. Used short
2.45 inch case that feeds from magazine.
Used fast ball powder, getting about
1500 fps. Further testing on 600 gr
hardened slug got 1700.That is in short
20 in barrel. Comparing this short case
with the 3.07 inch case I use in NEF there
is an inch difference in length of powder
column so it takes faster powder with
10k more pressure in 87 to get same velocities as in NEF. But the 1887 handles it fine.
It takes as much pressure as my Savage
in its present form.Ed
That's 624 grains worth. Used short
2.45 inch case that feeds from magazine.
Used fast ball powder, getting about
1500 fps. Further testing on 600 gr
hardened slug got 1700.That is in short
20 in barrel. Comparing this short case
with the 3.07 inch case I use in NEF there
is an inch difference in length of powder
column so it takes faster powder with
10k more pressure in 87 to get same velocities as in NEF. But the 1887 handles it fine.
It takes as much pressure as my Savage
in its present form.Ed