young mosin
New member
how much are your 12 gauges from hell? 
12GA Rifle From Hell
- Thread starter HUBEL458
- Start date
Depends on what you want. If on a NEf Ultra 12ga, with heavy
barrel,250 bucks for gun, 100 dollars for 10 3.5"cases from RMC,
few dollars to lengthen chamber to 3.5", add weight
to gun, few dollars for add on recoil pad.
If you want a Savage 210 they are $550, plus heavy barrel
for 300, gunsmithing and chambering extra. Plus pad and
cases. I don't do it but you can have your smith do them.Ed
barrel,250 bucks for gun, 100 dollars for 10 3.5"cases from RMC,
few dollars to lengthen chamber to 3.5", add weight
to gun, few dollars for add on recoil pad.
If you want a Savage 210 they are $550, plus heavy barrel
for 300, gunsmithing and chambering extra. Plus pad and
cases. I don't do it but you can have your smith do them.Ed
Have had a bunch of different guys shooting
the 4bore with light 11,000 ft lb loads.
All say it is a tremendous thrill.
Simply the greatest shooting ever.
So many have opinions on what is a real big bore.
I think really big starts at .585........
So in that vein I have made the 585 Hubel
Super Magnum, 585 HSE, giving a nod to necked
cases.Also can make the 620 HSE for 600 guys.
This is my only wildcat base case with a neck.
Base and rim are .750", shoulder is .720".
and case is 3.7" long. Power in the range of
14,000 to 17,000 ft lbs. Can be used single shot
in the PH, the Savage 210, the Enfield. Not for
mass production by me, cases too hard to make.
An experiment with necked cases.
Picture of the case later.Ed
the 4bore with light 11,000 ft lb loads.
All say it is a tremendous thrill.
Simply the greatest shooting ever.
So many have opinions on what is a real big bore.
I think really big starts at .585........
So in that vein I have made the 585 Hubel
Super Magnum, 585 HSE, giving a nod to necked
cases.Also can make the 620 HSE for 600 guys.
This is my only wildcat base case with a neck.
Base and rim are .750", shoulder is .720".
and case is 3.7" long. Power in the range of
14,000 to 17,000 ft lbs. Can be used single shot
in the PH, the Savage 210, the Enfield. Not for
mass production by me, cases too hard to make.
An experiment with necked cases.
Picture of the case later.Ed
20 gauge-- Fired factory 3.5" plastic cased Hastings 395 gr
locked on sabot slug in 20ga with 30 inch barrel and
got 1900 plus fps. Same sabot slug in RMC 3.5" brass case
with shotgun primer, got 2500 fps. Case bases didn't
expand. Load of 150gr RE17 slow enough getting to
peak pressures is easy on cases. Dies work with
both case types.Ed
locked on sabot slug in 20ga with 30 inch barrel and
got 1900 plus fps. Same sabot slug in RMC 3.5" brass case
with shotgun primer, got 2500 fps. Case bases didn't
expand. Load of 150gr RE17 slow enough getting to
peak pressures is easy on cases. Dies work with
both case types.Ed
Some more 20ga- 490gr slug in RMC 3.5" brass case
with shotgun primer, got 2400+ fps. Cases very slight
base expansion. About .001" above base.
Load of 180gr RE17, shotgun primer.Ed
Got asked about the Taylor KO factor, some of our
cases.Max loads for my guns/cases combos.Ed
4bore in my falling block-- 1600gr at 2500 - 571 KO
700HE in my bolt gun----- 1000gr at 3200- 457 KO
12GA FH in my Savage----1000gr at 2500- 357 KO
585HE in my bolt gun------750gr at 2800-- 300 KO
577 trex comparison-------750gr at 2600--278 KO
700NE comparison --------1000gr at 2000- 295 KO
with shotgun primer, got 2400+ fps. Cases very slight
base expansion. About .001" above base.
Load of 180gr RE17, shotgun primer.Ed
Got asked about the Taylor KO factor, some of our
cases.Max loads for my guns/cases combos.Ed
4bore in my falling block-- 1600gr at 2500 - 571 KO
700HE in my bolt gun----- 1000gr at 3200- 457 KO
12GA FH in my Savage----1000gr at 2500- 357 KO
585HE in my bolt gun------750gr at 2800-- 300 KO
577 trex comparison-------750gr at 2600--278 KO
700NE comparison --------1000gr at 2000- 295 KO
20ga testing- 600gr slug in RMC 3.5" brass case
with shotgun primer, 2300 fps. Cases very slight
base expansion. 12 number 1 buckshot,
about 510 gr worth, 2000. Glued a 20ga
card in the brass case over the shot.
Few more guys are around having fun
shooting the 4bore this summer. Ed
with shotgun primer, 2300 fps. Cases very slight
base expansion. 12 number 1 buckshot,
about 510 gr worth, 2000. Glued a 20ga
card in the brass case over the shot.
Few more guys are around having fun
shooting the 4bore this summer. Ed
There are fellas who have and are planning on
doing hopped up loads and cases in the Greener GP,
Martini type action. Here is picture of one done couple
years ago by Aussie guy on NitroExpress forums. They
need heavy barrel in place of original. It has a rifled
Pacnor barrel and weighs about 9 lbs. In my measuring an
action here, they will feed a 3" brass case with a protruding
slug, like the cast Dixie or the Henson jkt slugs.
I like the looks of these old classic guns. And they are
strong enough with 3" RMC brass to get 730gr slug to
2000 fps...Ed
doing hopped up loads and cases in the Greener GP,
Martini type action. Here is picture of one done couple
years ago by Aussie guy on NitroExpress forums. They
need heavy barrel in place of original. It has a rifled
Pacnor barrel and weighs about 9 lbs. In my measuring an
action here, they will feed a 3" brass case with a protruding
slug, like the cast Dixie or the Henson jkt slugs.
I like the looks of these old classic guns. And they are
strong enough with 3" RMC brass to get 730gr slug to
2000 fps...Ed
A fella cast me some 10 and 8ga hard alloy lead slugs.
10 ga 1050 gr, 8ga 1320gr, fullbore, have large concave
in the base. Should need little more hollow in the base
for longer range accuracy. Just hard alloy, not heat
treated. Nice design, one wide groove, for lube if needed.
Fired one in NEF 8ga, with heavy 3.3" plastic kiln case,
1700 fps, 9000 ft lbs energy. Entered backstop straight
at 40 ft.Have pics of the slugs soon.Ed
10 ga 1050 gr, 8ga 1320gr, fullbore, have large concave
in the base. Should need little more hollow in the base
for longer range accuracy. Just hard alloy, not heat
treated. Nice design, one wide groove, for lube if needed.
Fired one in NEF 8ga, with heavy 3.3" plastic kiln case,
1700 fps, 9000 ft lbs energy. Entered backstop straight
at 40 ft.Have pics of the slugs soon.Ed
Comparison of slug type and speed for accuracy.
Comparing better 12ga slugs for rifled and smooth.
The US-S 570gr slug, with
locked on base does 2-3" groups at 50 yds
and about 9" at 100yds in heavy barrel.
At 2000 fps in smooth bore.
Now a Dixie 600gr slug in rifled barrel at 1300,
2-3" at 50yds- about 9" at 100yds;
BUT Dixie at 2000 2-3" at 50 yds and 6" at 100 yds.
It seems that slower slugs in rifled barrels losing velocity
gets below the speed of sound at 100 yds which
affects accuracy. Of course super heavy bullets, like
12-1500gr, make it harder to start out fast
enough to be supsonic at longer ranges.
This accounts for the guys info I posted earlier about his
high speed in rifled 20ga killing deer at 160 yds.
And holding tighter groups at longer ranges.
He kept velocity above the speed of sound
further down range......Ed
Comparing better 12ga slugs for rifled and smooth.
The US-S 570gr slug, with
locked on base does 2-3" groups at 50 yds
and about 9" at 100yds in heavy barrel.
At 2000 fps in smooth bore.
Now a Dixie 600gr slug in rifled barrel at 1300,
2-3" at 50yds- about 9" at 100yds;
BUT Dixie at 2000 2-3" at 50 yds and 6" at 100 yds.
It seems that slower slugs in rifled barrels losing velocity
gets below the speed of sound at 100 yds which
affects accuracy. Of course super heavy bullets, like
12-1500gr, make it harder to start out fast
enough to be supsonic at longer ranges.
This accounts for the guys info I posted earlier about his
high speed in rifled 20ga killing deer at 160 yds.
And holding tighter groups at longer ranges.
He kept velocity above the speed of sound
further down range......Ed
Rampant_Colt
New member
That Martini's got some really nice wood!
Looks heavy enough that ya needa gun-bearer to carry it for you in the bush
Looks heavy enough that ya needa gun-bearer to carry it for you in the bush
I agree, that Martini is sweet! Things like bolt action shotguns don't do much for me but I could easily see myself owning a Martini like that. A touchstone to the past but still very useful today.
If somebody actually started making those as custom jobs, my wallet would be in danger. Assuming they could do it for a reasonable cost.....
Gregg
If somebody actually started making those as custom jobs, my wallet would be in danger. Assuming they could do it for a reasonable cost.....
Gregg
London Guns had a matched pair few years ago,
fancy case, ivory caps, precious metal inlays,
everything fancy, many tens of thousands of dollars.
They can be found cheap and fixed up by a good smith,
doing the same as pictured.With heavy barrel, and
good wood. Good finish and bluing.Ed
fancy case, ivory caps, precious metal inlays,
everything fancy, many tens of thousands of dollars.
They can be found cheap and fixed up by a good smith,
doing the same as pictured.With heavy barrel, and
good wood. Good finish and bluing.Ed
Got asked about slugs going from supersonic to subsonic.I understand
it is that blunt bullets that are in most shotgun slug/sabot loads,
do not maintain best accuracy when passing back under the speed
of sound like spire point bullets do.Speed of sound about 1150 fps.
Now on, FED 239 primer in 8bore and the 4bore cases I have
with shotgun primers. They almost as strong, from my primer tests
as the kiln primers from WIN and REM.And they seem to dent easier
in my 8ga testing than FED209 or the REM kiln ones. I get them from
the 3.5" 10 and 12ga Fed primed magnum cases. Makes ignition surer.
Lotta guys want to try Magtech 2.5" 12ga cases. Well they are
stronger built than any of the old time brass cases I have seen.
About dollar each, go in same chamber as plastic, same strength.
The rifle looking cartridge in a slug gun is what some like..
If you have break action load them with protruding slugs any length.
If auto or pump in 3.5" chamber load them up to 3.1" overall
with protruding slug and you can feed from magazine.
RCBS has sizing dies. Loaded that length about the same power
as a 3.5" plastic case roll crimped on same slug, magnum load.
Don't leave air space in Magtech, but use wads and seals
like in plastic cases..Ed
it is that blunt bullets that are in most shotgun slug/sabot loads,
do not maintain best accuracy when passing back under the speed
of sound like spire point bullets do.Speed of sound about 1150 fps.
Now on, FED 239 primer in 8bore and the 4bore cases I have
with shotgun primers. They almost as strong, from my primer tests
as the kiln primers from WIN and REM.And they seem to dent easier
in my 8ga testing than FED209 or the REM kiln ones. I get them from
the 3.5" 10 and 12ga Fed primed magnum cases. Makes ignition surer.
Lotta guys want to try Magtech 2.5" 12ga cases. Well they are
stronger built than any of the old time brass cases I have seen.
About dollar each, go in same chamber as plastic, same strength.
The rifle looking cartridge in a slug gun is what some like..
If you have break action load them with protruding slugs any length.
If auto or pump in 3.5" chamber load them up to 3.1" overall
with protruding slug and you can feed from magazine.
RCBS has sizing dies. Loaded that length about the same power
as a 3.5" plastic case roll crimped on same slug, magnum load.
Don't leave air space in Magtech, but use wads and seals
like in plastic cases..Ed
I found some 4bore plastic cases, 4 inches long, red colored, looking like an oversize 12ga Activ case, They are all plastic without a steel insert in the base like Activ cases have. No markings.
I understand they are Fiocchi. They are the size for the 4bores that are about .950 inch bore. They are suitable for shot loads of moderate pressures. Guys loading them say they stretch out after a few loads. And they use about 3 oz shot.
I will test them with a light buckshot loads of nine 45cal buckshot, 140 grains each. Total 1260gr, a little less than three ounces.
In picture are plastic cases with brass ones and 3.3" 8ga. The base of case will be shimmed with strong wide tape to fit our chamber, cutting down on the stretching.
Ed
I understand they are Fiocchi. They are the size for the 4bores that are about .950 inch bore. They are suitable for shot loads of moderate pressures. Guys loading them say they stretch out after a few loads. And they use about 3 oz shot.
I will test them with a light buckshot loads of nine 45cal buckshot, 140 grains each. Total 1260gr, a little less than three ounces.
In picture are plastic cases with brass ones and 3.3" 8ga. The base of case will be shimmed with strong wide tape to fit our chamber, cutting down on the stretching.
Ed
When I made the 16ga FH, shown earlier in this thread,
I had couple bmg cases that were partly worked down, and not
yet expanded to 16ga mouth size. With a rim on it bigger than the
base which was .770". Well, I've had guys ask if I would ever
have bottlenecked cartridge. This led me to a way to do one.
I made rim .770, left shoulder diameter, swage case sides straight,
and expanded neck for 585" size. Cut the case to 3.7" length, and
we have the 585 Hubel Super Magnum. This will be my only
bottle necked wildcat. I can make the mag box on the MRC PH
long to feed case..Good for over 16,000 ft lbs,Regular 12-14,000 ft lbs.
Will that put trex in small letters.....Pictured with 505 Gibbs to which
it has nearly identical larger shape and good side taper for easy
extraction, with heavy loads.And I can make cases like I do with
my 700HE.Case hold 250gr ball powder under bullet.
It'll work in FBW model LED
I had couple bmg cases that were partly worked down, and not
yet expanded to 16ga mouth size. With a rim on it bigger than the
base which was .770". Well, I've had guys ask if I would ever
have bottlenecked cartridge. This led me to a way to do one.
I made rim .770, left shoulder diameter, swage case sides straight,
and expanded neck for 585" size. Cut the case to 3.7" length, and
we have the 585 Hubel Super Magnum. This will be my only
bottle necked wildcat. I can make the mag box on the MRC PH
long to feed case..Good for over 16,000 ft lbs,Regular 12-14,000 ft lbs.
Will that put trex in small letters.....Pictured with 505 Gibbs to which
it has nearly identical larger shape and good side taper for easy
extraction, with heavy loads.And I can make cases like I do with
my 700HE.Case hold 250gr ball powder under bullet.
It'll work in FBW model LED
Last edited:
Shot 4 ga plastic case with 7- 140 gr balls, 980gr total
1800 fps. Used duplex load- Blue Dot 100gr, - Re17 150gr.
A card and couple nitro wads under load and card over, glue gunned
the card in. Shot loadedin two rows of 3 and 7th on bottom
in recess in the middle of top wad. Red plastic case ok some
expansion. Just about the limit for an all plastic case.
Here is picture 0f 585HSM and some other cases.
Gonna test a few in trusty ole Enfield I shot
the 700H 3.25 in with extra rear lugs. Change barrel
lengthen port.It won't do maximum real hotrod
loads like when I put it in PH later, but it'll
outrun trex.2nd pic... ED
1800 fps. Used duplex load- Blue Dot 100gr, - Re17 150gr.
A card and couple nitro wads under load and card over, glue gunned
the card in. Shot loadedin two rows of 3 and 7th on bottom
in recess in the middle of top wad. Red plastic case ok some
expansion. Just about the limit for an all plastic case.
Here is picture 0f 585HSM and some other cases.
Gonna test a few in trusty ole Enfield I shot
the 700H 3.25 in with extra rear lugs. Change barrel
lengthen port.It won't do maximum real hotrod
loads like when I put it in PH later, but it'll
outrun trex.2nd pic... ED
In the 4ga plastic case a 760 gr ball at 2000 fps
extracted ok. 3oz #2 shot load at 1500 ok.
More 8ga stuff, fired a 2 ball, 820gr load at 1600
with all the RE17 it had room for. We fired 1300
gr cast full bore 8ga hard slug at 1700. Found a
guy who can do them. Here is picture of his 10
and 8ga cast fullbore hard slugs. 2nd picture is the
585 HSM case sectioned with a competition case
showing how strong brass is.Ed
extracted ok. 3oz #2 shot load at 1500 ok.
More 8ga stuff, fired a 2 ball, 820gr load at 1600
with all the RE17 it had room for. We fired 1300
gr cast full bore 8ga hard slug at 1700. Found a
guy who can do them. Here is picture of his 10
and 8ga cast fullbore hard slugs. 2nd picture is the
585 HSM case sectioned with a competition case
showing how strong brass is.Ed