12GA Rifle From Hell

@ Hubel,

maybe you should jump to blackpowder too to see what you can do there.
I'll get a rifle soon which can shoot a 1'' lead ball weighing approx. 1500 grain with a load of 250grain 2FG blackpowder @ 1500 fp/s out of the 54'' barrel - which makes 7500 ft/lbs, but the guns weighs 34 pounds to not kill the shooter with the recoil. (BP recoils more)
You can get pretty decent big-bore stuff with traditional muzzleloader rifles, and this is as close as you can get if you want a cannon with a buttstock which can be carried and fired by one man. :D

Currently I am shooting cal .69 730 grain conicals @ 1250 fp/s out of my M1847 for target work, still powerful and the deep thunder it generates is gorgeous.

Great work you're doing here!:):cool:
 
8 gauge industrial magnum shell with a 3 oz(1312.5 grains)slug has a typical muzzle velocity of about 1744 feet per second and a muzzle energy of about 8,863 foot pounds.

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/ 8ga wads
Ballistic Products Inc. 0000 Super Buckshot about 18rds in a 3.25in
built a 30lb 36in barrel 8ga single shot a few years ago from a nef 12ga parts and scrap metal and an .84in ID 1.5in OD pipe in a 14in long sleeve
had to make a stronger lower receiver moved the serial number
3in silicon buttpad on a fiberglass stock
it was heavy and ugly but worked
recoil and noise was worse than a 50bmg
no1 want to be near you at the range
too heavy for hunting and not legal for waterfowl in the US
slugs kicked much worse than buckshot
NEF 12ga $70 other parts $100 sold for $250 to a friend
wasnt worth the time building i did learn to weld better
8ga 3.25in ind mag ammo is hard to find and not cheap
remington SP8 MAG 3 Oz. Lead was what i start with
wish building a 50bmg was in my budget
 
It isn't bad loading for it now, Primed new cases 70 cents at
BP, and roll crimper for slugs, and use wad cups from BP.
Use 3 oz slugs as is or hollowbase them and give them round
nose, And I also use 10ga 770 gr slug in cups, I just expand
them a little, as they have hollowbase.And you can casrt also.
And on most loads base cups don't expand so you can iron
out the mouth and reload a few times. Ed.
 
There are now two videos of 12GA FH on YouTube,
exploding big heavy walled pails of water.
The "Grampa's Cannon" one with a long view,
and "Grandpa's First Shot" a closeup video,
the first one, that shows how the top of heavy
shelf got bent. Later kids will do videos showing
muzzle blast and recoil.
Also the 3 ought buckshot from the 8ga load
above goes through 2" hardwood ok. I will test
8ga on waterpail also, to see what happens. Ed
 
Here is pic of Mossberg 695 that will be the
second 28GA From Hell.You can see long
brass case in the port. Ed

moss28.jpg
 
Somebody suggested this picture to show the
difference between shotgun powder, factory loads
and our loads in plastic and brass as it relates to
increased powder capacity. Factory 3rd case with
small amount of powder(more wads), 2nd case plastic with
larger amount(less wads), 1st, brass case all powder.
This allows us more volume of slower powder.
Also the Videos, 'Grandpa's Cannon', 'Grandpa's First
Shot', are heading up to 3000 views on Youtube.
Any of you who could pass info about thre videos out
over the net, I'd appreciate it. Ed


3pl.jpg
 
Ok, the fellow who is making the 12ga jacketed hollowpoints
just got all his dies and has a 1000 cups coming for a 1000
bullets. These I pictured before and they will work great
for rifled barrels. Wt will be about 720gr. Ed
 
12 gauge 3 1/2" rifled/sabot slugs (?), etc.

Hello Mr. Hubel,

I find your posts fascinating and inspiring, though I must confess I haven't had time to read all of them yet, so I apologize if you have already answered my questions in a previous post.

I am new to the Firing Line forum. I was directed here based on a question I posted in a Gun Owners group on MySpace regarding maximizing the ballistic potential of a 12 gauge pump shotgun while still retaining its versatility (as compared to a rifle).

Are you aware of any companies producing 3 1/2" (super magnum) rifled and/or sabot slugs in 12 gauge? I've found only 2 3/4" and 3" slugs.

I like your idea of using the brass casing from a .50 BMG. I wasn't aware that they were the same diameter as 12 gauge. Would such a cartridge (shortened to 3 1/2") work in a factory Remington 870 28" super magnum barrel, or is it too thin? If it's too thin, are you aware of any companies that produce a heavier barrel for the 870 that would tolerate a brass casing packed full of powder?

Also, I take it that getting a rifled barrel is a good starting point, as the sabot slugs in a rifled barrel generally outperform the rifled slugs through a smooth barrel (please correct me if I'm wrong). I believe Remington makes a 20" rifled 'deer slug' barrel, but I think it only chambers up to a 2 3/4" or 3" casing, though I can't find it on their website now.

I'm just curious about hypothetically maximizing the ballistic potential of a Remington 870.

Here is an excerpt from my other post:

"It seems to me, judging by the size of a 3 1/2" 12 gauge cartridge (compared to a .577 Nitro, for instance), that if it were made out of brass, packed full of powder, with a 600 grain .727" slug, that one could take an elephant [at close range]. I’m guessing that the overall weight of the firearm and the thickness of the chamber and barrel is just too small on a typical pump shotgun to tolerate this level of pressure. Or is there something about the brass that would negate a pump shotgun’s reliability? I know some manufacturers do produce brass shotgun cartridges, but it definitely is not common."

Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks!

-Luke
 
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You'd have to have heavy alloy barrel made for 870.
I'm recommending everyone get 3.5" turned cases from
Rocky Mtn Cartridge as we can't get a large number
of bmg cases with the 12ga size rim added. We figure
RMC cases will get 600gr slugs to 24-2500, in heavy barrel
and/or alloy barrels. But you can reload slugs in 3.5 plastic
with our fast rifle powder loads with a decent length barrel
and get 600 gr to 2100. A better pump for little higher
pressures is the Benelli with turnbolt locking lug bolthead.Ed
 
Here is closeup picture of Rob's 12GA FH Borchardt.
The long brass case shown has one of Rob's 2000
grain solid bore rider 12ga slugs. Ed

2430DSC00694.JPG
 
I got my long 700 HE case chambered barrel
finally in a bmg size action. It is barrel
I locked onto an I-beam and got all the
load developement done over the last couple
years. Max load about 23,000 ft lbs.
It weighs 27 lbs, laminated thumbhole stock,
a max size pad, weighted butt, a reinforced
wrist, recoil barrel ring on front of stock.Ed

700helr.jpg
 
Here is comparison of my 700HE on the right,
that is in the above big action, with a
700NE on the left and our 12GA FH center.Ed

comp.jpg
 
Here is picture of a neat scaled up Sharps replica
that would handle out 12GA FH and my 700HE.
That outside hammer looks great...Ed

Bradley50BMG4.jpg
 
Here is a pic of a projectile idea Rob had. We will test it later
this fall, It is 12ga bore rider design Body is Aluminum, and it
will have a heavy 50 cal insert in the nose made from tungsten
or similiar metals. In the picture he put a 50 cal bullet in for
show. The insert in the nose will be flush with front of the
AL carrier. It should be stable at slow twists and if built
with back and front same diameter stable in smoothbores.
The long lighter tail-end compared to heavy nose insert
will make it stable. Same principle Brenekke uses. This idea
is being explored to try to get superior penetration
from 12ga, with heavy, hard insert in the nose.Ed

IMG_01741.jpg
 
Here is another view of my 700HE blaster,
that I got rigged up on an action and stock.
Side view shows action with a aperture sight I
rigged up. Also cases. On left is 700H 3.25" case.
Center my 700HE, what the gun in picture has now.
Good for nearly 23,000 ft lbs, we attained in
a work up in testing with the barrel as a test
barrel with screw on testing receiver....Ed

helr.jpg
 
Here is picture of a dart type 12ga slug Rob made. Body
is aluminum, it has a heavy tungsten carbide insert in the
nose. The TC in the nose is about 6 times denser than AL.
Total length is 2.35 inches, weight about 950 gr. The .75" long
insert a real tight type fit. Heat AL, put in insert, cools, locks on.
It is fairly streamlined, yet has wide meplat for penetration
in game. Flat points penetrate straighter in game.
It is hollow inside in the back, behind insert which puts the
center of gravity way up front, it should fly straight even from
a smoothbore. They are fast to make and material
less expense than copper.In pic is a copper and a brass 600
cal slugs for comparison. Dart/slug on right has insert.Ed

00312.JPG
 
Well Abrams have so much thicker, higher strength armor,
that you can't puncture with any conventional non-explosive,
non-rocket projectile, from a shoulder fired gun.
Even WW2 bazookas won't hardly bother an Abrams. Ed
 
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