12GA Rifle From Hell

Asked about using 900 gr saboted bullets in
3" plastic cases in regular barrels with
4759 or RL-15 and starter powder.
With bullets that heavy you'd have too
high of pressures with 4759
for plastic cases. Possibly could do
it with RL-15 and starter
powder in plastic, but only
in heavy barreled like NEF.

But the 600 gr Dixie is still the best for
most uses in plastic.

A NEF and brass RMC cases would handle 900 gr
Saboted bullet with RL-15 and starter powder. Start
at 80 gr Rl-15 and go up if cases don't expand to much to resize.Ed
 
Here is pic of a double that I will put
barrels in, monoblock style, using the breech
section for the monoblock. This one will be
for 28GA FH. May get another same size for
my 510HE. I will be able to run full pressures
with these.....I am trying to find a bigger,
heavier one to put 12GA FH in. I want
heavier one so as to run pressures like my
Savage as a minimum.Ed.

zab.jpg
 
I was looking at an 8ga single on
GB, that looked heavy enough to put
a barrel in for 12ga or 700HE. They
wanted much more than it cost
new.It was a real heavy
Spanish single. If I found an extra,
or the 8ga Tonolini double, I might
leave it 8ga, as I could make a few
cases by reworking 20mm Suzy brass,
can be done without adding rim,which would
be super strong cases like our 12ga FH.Ed
 
Had question about locking RMC cases onto
lead slugs, as they don't crimp into the
grooves well as sharp bend works thick
mouth. First I resize tight and slightly bell
mouth.Insert slugs which take a little pressure.
Then I use a die with slightly more
taper and swage the mouth into slug, like
the fit you get with bottleneck cases.
Same deal works with our long cases made
from BMG brass.Ed
 
What do you think you could do with a saboted 750grn .50 caliber bullet in the shorter 2 7/8" Rocky Mtn. cases? If we can get the muzzle energy up to 4,000 fp or so, we might have a good Dangerous Game round (better sectional density than .730 slugs). Hmmmmm, I may have to have my NEF 10ga fitted with the rifled 12ga barrel.
 
You could get a 12ga Ultra riled gun like mine
easier than barreling yours.And a saboted 750
gr like that can get to 15-1600 with
our loadings in RMC cases.Which gets 4000
ft lbs. Ed
 
More VV N-110 testing that we got done.
Starting loads are 60 gr min like 4759 for good
ignition,600gr slug. In 2 & 3/4" plastic full load is 75gr
with card and 1/4" cushion wad.In Nef 24" bbl 1700fps.
In 3" plastic 87gr, card and 3/8" wad, 1800 plus.
In RMC brass case. 100gr, card and 1/2 wad 1900 plus.
All running same safe pressures as 4759 lab tested.
So that is two powders that are slower than shotgun
powders, and much safer to work with for regular
primers, giving at least 20% more velocity. Ed
 
Testing soft buckhammer vs hard Dixie. Dixie 600 gr,
Buckhammer from factory hull 640gr with locked onwad,
out of Savage at 2300. Dixie went through 2 -1/8" steel
sheets and on through two more 3 feet away.Buckhammer
went through first two with same round hole, but made
a bunch of dents and one cockeyed hole 3 ft away.Ed
 
Along with the two slower than shotgun powders, IMR 4759
and VV N110 that ignite reliably with shotgun primers,
that are easier to load for slugs, in heavy bbl can
get 20% plus more velocity, I've found another. It is
IMR 7383 $3 a lb surplus. Tested plastic 3" cases, perfect ignition with regular primers. 8 types of cases,600gr slug
starting load 100gr. Full load 140gr giving 1800 fps plus
in 24" bbl NEF.With loads halfway between start and full
didn't even have to resize to shoot again.Full load just has
a card wad under slug in 3" plastic.Wad just tight on
charge, as no extreme compression of powder needed.
Will do heavier slugs and
RMC brass cases. Ed
 
Tested 7383 with 730gr Dixie, 130gr gets 1650 plus fps
in NEF 24" bbl. Used 3" plastic cases. Same low expansion
as 7383 the 600gr loads and the 4759 lab tested loads.
Ignition perfect, no hesitation.Ed
 
Mr. Hubel:

Your commitment to your large-game rifled shotgun cartridges is amazing. I'm toying with the idea of joining your little club here with a NEF 12ga rifled slug gun and the purchase of some brass-cased shot shells.

Am I correct in assuming that I can begin to play in this category with you guys for less than $600 including long gun, additional stock weights/stock replacement/stock recoil pads, brass, powder, slugs, primers and dies?

I currently own no shotguns and no shotshell reloading equipment, however I do own a RockChucker press for handgun and rifle reloading.

What is the longest brass case you have successfully shot from your NEF without modification to the rifle's chamber? What is the optimal slug weight for the NEF's rate of twist? Are you still manufacturing your 12ga FH brass from 50BMG and then cutting them down to fit your NEF, or are you purchasing your brass from Rocky Mountain?

I've read your posts #162 and #163, I just want to make sure and verify I understand them correctly.
 
I only got a few brass cases from RMC to test.NEF chamber will take
the 2 & 7/8" RMC brass. It took our case cut back to 3.00".
To cut our case back is too bothersome if you have to adapt to
small primers. Or do a lot of work on the gun to fire big primers.
So RMC is easier. Nef came with 3" chambers and 3" plastic is about 2.6" long when crimped. I found its easier to start with plastic, get a
simple shotgun die for press and a roll crimper, 10 cent 3" cases, and
you can get real hairy loads with 600gr Dixie slugs in 3" using
4759 and VV N110 powder. The 7383 powder also and it can go
with heavier slugs. Nef Ultra slug gun is $225, and with rest of
the stuff, $600 total should do it.Rcbs is supposed to have
dies for regular big presses.Ed
 
Yes, after several years of it being a special order item, RCBS has made their 12 gauge dies for brass cases a regular catalogue item.
But you can only use them on single stage presses that have a removable bushing. You have to remove the bushing ala Hornady Lock'n'load adapters.

And, unless they have changed the die set priming is still a problem.
Brass shotgun vases are designed to use large pistol primers.
The primer pockets often are not deep enopugh for rifle primers.

I think one might be better off looking for a used MEC 600 Junior or such.
That way you can use cheaper plastic cases and hotter 209 shotgun primers.
Besides 12 gauge wads are a lot easier to find than 11 gauge wads.
 
The RMC cases use a shotgun primer, thus they have
a real thick base. They are not a thin headed,
balloon headed case, and RMC makes sides thick
enough for regular 12ga wads.
But in a break action the 3" plastic cases
with our 4759, VV110, 7383 loads are close to RMC in
power. Can buy a hundred plastic for price of one RMC.
And if I shot RMC in Savage to get more power,
which I could do as far as the firing process,
the expansion above the base, due to being a turned case
would make extraction stiff, causing ectractor to
damage rim. Rcbs set should do RMC easy.Ed
 
Finished test of 7383/870 slug in NEF.
Tested 870gr hardened slug with 118gr of
7383, got 1500 plus. Perfect ignition.
Cases ejected easy, and has same base
expansion as the 600 gr slug/140gr 7383.
Will have these pressure/velocity tested
in few weeks.Ed
 
wickliffe rifles

We at J.C.Gunsmithing are now making Wickliffe rifles on a custom basis. We are very interested in your project with the Super Magnum action, as there has been a lot of interest in making this into a 50 BMG. Could you send some pictures of how the project is coming along.
We have access to all the parts for Wickliffe rifles, and are having a well known stock company make wood. Maybe a composite stock, or laminate will be on the way.
 
We are working on a model yet, will be a while.
Tested a 750 gr banded solid, grooves .009 smaller
than land diameter and got same velocity as
with lead slug weighing the same at same pressure.
Other banded brass slugs with groove debth
same as land raised pressures compared to lead.
Got 2700 easy with 750gr, in long case in Savage.Ed
 
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