10mm or .45 for reloading?

Ruger45LC said:
I would be curious what your "full charge" means, because 1590 fps with a full charge of power pistol to me indicates going well over book. Alliant shows 10grs as max for 10mm 165gr Gold Dot @ 1314 fps, and I personally got almost exactly that out of a G20. An extra 1.5" isn't going to give you 275 more FPS unless you're running way over, which I get, I do it too sometimes. In addition, Power Pistol is very good and I find it to be very consistent, but it's not the powder you want to use for absolute max, there are better options.

My fastest 165gr 10mm is using 800x and pushes 1400 fps from a G20 and that's hot, your load (using Power Pistol no less which has much less potential than 800x) is nearly 200 fps faster? You might have got some bad readings.

Also, the .45 Super will flat out whip up on the 10mm, it simply holds more powder and can be loaded identically to the 460 Rowland, but does need a compensated barrel when you move past 10mm territory in order to slow down slide speed.

My hottest 10mm 180gr from a 5" KKM and hottest 45 Super 185gr 5" KKM:
10mm 180gr: 1,387 fps avg (769 ft-lbs)
.45 Super 185gr: 1,570 fps avg (1,012 ft-lbs).

BTW, 200gr XTP from same 5" KKM .45 Super was 1475 fps, so your 1300 fps with 6" apparently isn't nearly as spicy as your 165gr 10mm load, which has to be like 50K psi or something is off.

For heavier stuff, my fastest 200gr WFNGC 10mm was 1315 fps from 5" KKM (800X) and for 5" KKM 45 Super, a 255gr WFNGC at 1320 fps. Same velocity really but over 25% more bullet weight not to mention bigger hole in target (767 ft-lbs vs. 986 ft-lbs)

I'm not dogging 10mm at all nor am I trying to be argumentative, it's just that when you say the .45 Super can't touch the 10mm, that's not true.
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First, let me say that I don't recommend that anyone exceed the manufacturer's recommended max loads as you do at your own risk.

My 165grn load in my neighbor's stock Glock 20 at the same range and at the same time, clocked almost 200fps slower so as I've said many times before, the extra 1.6" of barrel length produces a significant increase in velocity at 6,100ft asl on an 84° day.

What you shoot, where you shoot, and what you load may be different. I've tried a few 800x loads and all it did was produce a huge flash, a loud bang, and nothing spectacular for velocity or accuracy. Maybe it's better in the standard length, 4.6" barrel, but in my 6" one, Power Pistol produces better results for me.

It's true that 10.0grn is max load per Alliant, however, these loads I use for 200yd steel plate shooting and I do go over a tad to 10.3grns. Pressure signs on the primers was surprisingly not as extreme as I had assumed. As to the 45 Super, I have checked load data from many sources and worked up 10.0, 10.2, 10.3, and stopped at 10.4grns of Power Pistol with 200grn GDs as the pressure signs on the primers were getting up there.

As I said above, neither pistol caliber uses a muzzle brake as I'm not a fan, however, I do use a 24# recoil spring and the 4¾ oz increased weight of my slide and barrel over a stock G20's combined work well to tame muzzle flip and the recoil impulse.

So, it looks like the data you have for your 4.6" barreled G20 produces loads that perform differently at your elevation and humidity level with different powders than my 6" barreled G20L does with Power Pistol at likely a higher altitude in a very dry climate. Go figure.
 
I just thought of a question to ask you fine folks. One of the reasons I'm interested in 10mm is not just for a handgun, but a rifle too. There's not many 10mm carbines out there, but they are out there, even in the Hi Point. Are there are carbines for .45 Super or are there any .45 ACP carbine capable of shooting Super?
 
There are lots of pistol caliber carbines--tons of them when you toss in pistol conversions and bullpups.

One of the things often overlooked in these discussions is the bolt thrust force generated by these pistol cartridges. The 10mm, for example. is generally considered right at the limit for a blowback design, and that's why some designs are popping up with locking bolt lugs like a conventional gas AR or something like CMMG's 'delayed release" bolt designed on their banshee design. I'm not sure what the bolt thrust for a 45 super would be--but my guess is prohibitively high for a conventional blow-back design. Blow back AR's usually rely on a combination of heavy carriers and/or buffers to delay the recoil of the bolt long enough to get the case to get a good seal to the chamber and delay before ejected.

Things like the the bolt-catch can take a pounding in the heavier recoil cartridges in a blow-back carbine.
 
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Get the model 20 in 10MM, and later on add a .45 ACP barrel.

You can also get a barrel in 9X25 Dillon. Ballistics similar to .357 magnum.

And when dealing with high velocity, consider getting the "long slide" version with the 6 inch barrel. Even .45 ACP will benefit from a 6 inch barrel.
 
stagpanther said:
There are lots of pistol caliber carbines--tons of them when you toss in pistol conversions and bullpups.

One of the things often overlooked in these discussions is the bolt thrust force generated by these pistol cartridges. The 10mm, for example. is generally considered right at the limit for a blowback design, and that's why some designs are popping up with locking bolt lugs like a conventional gas AR or something like CMMG's 'delayed release" bolt designed on their banshee design. I'm not sure what the bolt thrust for a 45 super would be--but my guess is prohibitively high for a conventional blow-back design. Blow back AR's usually rely on a combination of heavy carriers and/or buffers to delay the recoil of the bolt long enough to get the case to get a good seal to the chamber and delay before ejected.

Things like the the bolt-catch can take a pounding in the heavier recoil cartridges in a blow-back carbine.
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Yeah, I guess a .45 Super would need something other than a blowback design and I doubt anyone is looking at making a recoil system for .45 Super.

I guess once a PCC is thrown into the mix, the 10mm is the only option between the two.
 
Ben Dover:

You cant go 10mm to .45 acp with just a barrel change. Other way around, yes. Sorry to you had to choose that stage name
 
Most 45 ACP guns (1911s, Glocks, Springfield XD, H&K, EAA Witness) with minor (or no) modification, would be able to shoot 45 Super.

45 Super is in the same energy league (690 ft-lbs) as hot loaded 10mm. And makes a slightly bigger hole.

There is also factory loads for 45 Super.

And the best thing.... your gun can still shoot regular 45 ACP for practice and range time and $$$$ savings!
 
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