10mm or .45 for reloading?

You obviously want both--you just want good reasons from this forum to justify the expense.:D I'll make it simple for you; get SA's 1911 style 6" elite operator in 10mm--and their XD 45 for 45acp' and the occasional 45 +p if you are so inclined.
 
TruthTellers said:
.45 Super is what intrigues me most with a semi auto .45, but I'm not sure who makes barrels for .45 Super and for what pistols. I assume Glock and 1911's, but I really have no interest in a Glock .45 (better .45's out there) and a 1911 has never interested me.
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The only gun for which is recommended a different barrel for 45 Super is Glocks, and that's because their case support is poor.

No other guns require a different barrel for 45 Super.

See this thread, post #20: https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=603498
 
I don't know how often you go to the range, but 10mm shooters who don't reload leave their brass at my range quite often. I can usually pick up 50 cases or more per month.
There was a real life bear attack story circulating about a year ago. The guy had a Glock 10mm. He got one shot off, into the charging bears mouth, before it was on him. He started pumping rounds into the bruin while it chewed on his left arm and head. Then the pistol experienced a stoppage and while being mauled by the bear, he saw there was bear hair stuck in the slide. He was able to rack the slide and clear the jam, with the bear still chewing on him, and finished off the magazine, the bear expiring after the last shot.
I knew two hunting guides in Alaska and both carried bear spray and 12 gauges with slugs for bear protection. If a bear decides to take you, you have seconds (that you could count on one hand) to take action.
 
stagpanther said:
You obviously want both--you just want good reasons from this forum to justify the expense.:D I'll make it simple for you; get SA's 1911 style 6" elite operator in 10mm--and their XD 45 for 45acp' and the occasional 45 +p if you are so inclined.
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I picked up my Zastava M70 .32 mini Tokarev and this is my first time dealing with a single action only semi auto trigger... I'm not impressed. I shot it fine, but I'm more use to striker fired triggers like Glock or DA/SA triggers, so no 1911 for me, ever. Not my cup of tea.
 
44caliberkid said:
I don't know how often you go to the range, but 10mm shooters who don't reload leave their brass at my range quite often. I can usually pick up 50 cases or more per month.
There was a real life bear attack story circulating about a year ago. The guy had a Glock 10mm. He got one shot off, into the charging bears mouth, before it was on him. He started pumping rounds into the bruin while it chewed on his left arm and head. Then the pistol experienced a stoppage and while being mauled by the bear, he saw there was bear hair stuck in the slide. He was able to rack the slide and clear the jam, with the bear still chewing on him, and finished off the magazine, the bear expiring after the last shot.
I knew two hunting guides in Alaska and both carried bear spray and 12 gauges with slugs for bear protection. If a bear decides to take you, you have seconds (that you could count on one hand) to take action.
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Where I live the most exotic handgun brass I'm likely to find is .44 Magnum. It's virtually all 9, .45, and .38 here for non rimfire ammo. Rifle calibers will vary greatly, lot of people shooting milsurp rifles, lever actions, Thompson Centers in oddball calibers.

I'm probably the only guy at my range that shoots and reloads .32's, one of the few who shoot .40, and one of the even fewer who shoot percussion revolvers.
 
I picked up my Zastava M70 .32 mini Tokarev and this is my first time dealing with a single action only semi auto trigger... I'm not impressed. I shot it fine, but I'm more use to striker fired triggers like Glock or DA/SA triggers, so no 1911 for me, ever. Not my cup of tea.
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I know a fella who said the same the first time he drank a beer..."I drank a Zima. I'm not impressed. I drank it fine, but I'm more used to cherry or apple flavored drinks, so no beer for me, ever. Not my cup of beverage. Besides it made me dizzy."

tipoc
 
Now that's funny. I'd probably said fine wine or scotch instead of beer though.;)

BTW--kudos for using the golden rule(s) as your signature.
 
Reloading is no problem

Reloading is no problem: I load for both 45 and 10mm. The process for loading them is the same. However, the rounds are enough different so doing some homework is worthwhile. I use a 550 Dillon. My 45 brass is range scrap. The 10mm is mainly Starline with some Winchester Brass. I load mostly 45ACP for our informal matches. I cast my own 45 bullets but have not recently cast any for for the 40S&W and 10mm. I suggest making a choice on what use you have in mind for this gun. I have both a Glock G20 and a G21. In 10mm it's hard to beat in the Glock. My target shooting is done with a 1911.
 
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I load 10mm, .40 S&W , 45ACP , and 9mm . 10mm being my most recent venture. 10mm brass is pricey, even o/f. But i've invested and bought like 1300 pcs and found some nice deals. I have a great inventory of .40 in 180gr so the transition to 10mm was not so painful cost wise. I had to buy powder and brass. I got a great deal on a 8# keg of AA9 from Brownell's so i'm pretty much all set. I'm loading a relatively mild load for my Kimber Target II LS and it's 12.6 gr of AA9 and i'm at about 1230 fps. Really nice shooting load, and relatively easy recoil
 
I've had both a 6" custom Glock G20L 10mm as well as a custom Glock G21L 45acp in addition to a couple of 1911s in 45acp for over 15yrs and thousands of rds so I know the capabilities of each. I also shoot 45 Super in my G21L as well. Hands down, my choice would be a Glock G40 10mm with it's extended 6" slide and barrel. The 6" barrel and slide gives a considerable advantage over the standard G20 and it's 4.6" barrel in both performance when using a magnum pistol powder like Power Pistol (which my Glock loves) and a 28% increase in sight radius allowing for more accurate aiming.

Not only can you shoot inexpensive 40s&w, as you handload you can workup 40s&w level 10mm as well. Most importantly, you can also shoot some really potent 10mm loads that the 45acp, 45acp+P, and even the 45 Super can't come close to touching. I use my custom Glock 10mm G20L with a FO front sight and Bo Mar target rear sight to shoot at steel plates at 200yds with, offhand. All I have to do is aim at the top of the target and ding, I hit it. I've tried it as a G21L with 45acp and 45acp+P and it's like lobbing bullets at 200yds. Even with the 45 Super, the trajectory is significantly more arched and it makes it much more difficult to hit the target at that range.

The 45acp in a 1911 platform is fun to shoot and nostalgic as it's pushing 110 years old. Don't get me wrong, the caliber is fun and decent for SD, however, it doesn't have the versatility nor cheaper consumable component prices (lighter bullets are cheaper and they are the most expensive component of the 4) so the per reload cost is lower than you might think.

Further, even the 45 Super can't touch the performance of the 10mm in the same platform. Case in point. I handload for my Custom 6" Glock G20/21L in which I shoot both 10mm and 45 Super with just a swap of a barrel and magazines. At the same range, on the same day, with the same magnum pistol powder (Power Pistol) in both, here are some measured results.

10mm: 165gr Speer Gold Dots, Full Charge of Power Pistol - 1,589fps with 925ft/lbs of ME.
45 Super: 200gr Speer Gold Dots, Full Charge of Power Pistol - 1,307fps with 758ft/lbs of ME.

Further, the felt recoil of the 10mm is surprisingly mild for the power produced. With Glock's low bore axis, the recoil is a solid push back with little muzzle snap due to the heavier weight (about 4oz) of the longer barrel and slide. While you think that this might be a disadvantage, my 6" G20L without the magwell and 17+1rds on board is actually lighter and more compact than a 6" S&W 686 .357mag with only 6rds so packing it all day is much easier.

As to the 45 Super, I was surprised to discover that with it's heavier bullet in the same platform as my 165grn 10mm handloads, the felt recoil was surprisingly considerably higher. So much so that followup shots were much slower. Many use a muzzle brake with the 45 Super but I don't like the added weight or increased noise and blast directed back as the shooter (me).

So, considering the lower performance (velocity and penetration) of the 45 Super, the 3 less rds on board, and the heavier recoil in the same platform, I decided that it was definitely not my choice for hiking in the Rockies so I use my G20L exclusively for that and in truth, the 45 Super has become a play around caliber without a useful role for me. When I want to shoot 45acp, I break out my 1911 Springfield Range Officer.
 
Pretty interesting results there; though I could never get 165 gr bullets to exceed the energy of 180 gr ones--or was this a lighter bullet for extended range combo?
 
Thanks for that velocity data COSteve, thing is I'm not looking at using 165 grain bullets in 10mm, I'm strictly going to use 180 or 200 grain bullets. I figured if I want to shoot 165's, I'll shoot them in .40.
 
"I picked up my Zastava M70 .32 mini Tokarev and this is my first time dealing with a single action only semi auto trigger... I'm not impressed."

TT...I think if you shot a nicely tuned 3.5-4.0# 1911 trigger in a 6" Remington Hunter or 6" SA Tactical right along with a G40 you would a) understand that there is no comparison between a 1911 and a Zastava and b) you'll probably find that smaller groups with the 1911s over the G40... I have both Glocks and 1911s in 10mm and groups with the 1911s are always a third smaller...

As to 10mm vs. .45 Super, I have a Kimber Stainless Target II with two slides that will run both 10mm and .45 Super. Accuracy and recoil are about the same with top end loads. The .45 Super will run a 255 grain bullet at 1100 fps. My reloads now match the Buffalo Bore factory loads at 1050... My 200 grain 10mm loads run in the 1200s....

Just don't need anything more than that....

Bob
 
Endless reloading experiments in 10mm await you, given the huge array of bullet-weights and styles to play with - from the light screamers all the way to the 220gn or 230gn hardcast heavies, and everything in between of course.

The Big Slo (.45), ahhh, not so much. :rolleyes:

It's an easy one-n-done: 230gn polycoated slugs over 5.0gns of Bullseye. Call it good. Your basic G.I. ball-load equivalent. Boring yes, but reliable and accurate.
 
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COSteve said:
Further, even the 45 Super can't touch the performance of the 10mm in the same platform. Case in point. I handload for my Custom 6" Glock G20/21L in which I shoot both 10mm and 45 Super with just a swap of a barrel and magazines. At the same range, on the same day, with the same magnum pistol powder (Power Pistol) in both, here are some measured results.

10mm: 165gr Speer Gold Dots, Full Charge of Power Pistol - 1,589fps with 925ft/lbs of ME.
45 Super: 200gr Speer Gold Dots, Full Charge of Power Pistol - 1,307fps with 758ft/lbs of ME.
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I would be curious what your "full charge" means, because 1590 fps with a full charge of power pistol to me indicates going well over book. Alliant shows 10grs as max for 10mm 165gr Gold Dot @ 1314 fps, and I personally got almost exactly that out of a G20. An extra 1.5" isn't going to give you 275 more FPS unless you're running way over, which I get, I do it too sometimes. In addition, Power Pistol is very good and I find it to be very consistent, but it's not the powder you want to use for absolute max, there are better options.

My fastest 165gr 10mm is using 800x and pushes 1400 fps from a G20 and that's hot, your load (using Power Pistol no less which has much less potential than 800x) is nearly 200 fps faster? You might have got some bad readings.

Also, the .45 Super will flat out whip up on the 10mm, it simply holds more powder and can be loaded identically to the 460 Rowland, but does need a compensated barrel when you move past 10mm territory in order to slow down slide speed.

My hottest 10mm 180gr from a 5" KKM and hottest 45 Super 185gr 5" KKM:
10mm 180gr: 1,387 fps avg (769 ft-lbs)
.45 Super 185gr: 1,570 fps avg (1,012 ft-lbs).

BTW, 200gr XTP from same 5" KKM .45 Super was 1475 fps, so your 1300 fps with 6" apparently isn't nearly as spicy as your 165gr 10mm load, which has to be like 50K psi or something is off.

For heavier stuff, my fastest 200gr WFNGC 10mm was 1315 fps from 5" KKM (800X) and for 5" KKM 45 Super, a 255gr WFNGC at 1320 fps. Same velocity really but over 25% more bullet weight not to mention bigger hole in target (767 ft-lbs vs. 986 ft-lbs)

I'm not dogging 10mm at all nor am I trying to be argumentative, it's just that when you say the .45 Super can't touch the 10mm, that's not true.
 
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Ruger45LC said:
I would be curious what your "full charge" means, because 1590 fps with a full charge of power pistol to me indicates going well over book. Alliant shows 10grs as max for 10mm 165gr Gold Dot @ 1314 fps, and I personally got almost exactly that out of a G20. An extra 1.5" isn't going to give you 275 more FPS unless you're running way over, which I get, I do it too sometimes. In addition, Power Pistol is very good and I find it to be very consistent, but it's not the powder you want to use for absolute max, there are better options.

My fastest 165gr 10mm is using 800x and pushes 1400 fps from a G20 and that's hot, your load (using Power Pistol no less which has much less potential than 800x) is nearly 200 fps faster? You might have got some bad readings.

Also, the .45 Super will flat out whip up on the 10mm, it simply holds more powder and can be loaded identically to the 460 Rowland, but does need a compensated barrel when you move past 10mm territory in order to slow down slide speed.

My hottest 10mm 180gr from a 5" KKM and hottest 45 Super 185gr 5" KKM:
10mm 180gr: 1,387 fps avg (769 ft-lbs)
.45 Super 185gr: 1,570 fps avg (1,012 ft-lbs).

BTW, 200gr XTP from same 5" KKM .45 Super was 1475 fps, so your 1300 fps with 6" apparently isn't nearly as spicy as your 165gr 10mm load, which has to be like 50K psi or something is off.

For heavier stuff, my fastest 200gr WFNGC 10mm was 1315 fps from 5" KKM (800X) and for 5" KKM 45 Super, a 255gr WFNGC at 1320 fps. Same velocity really but over 25% more bullet weight not to mention bigger hole in target (767 ft-lbs vs. 986 ft-lbs)

I'm not dogging 10mm at all nor am I trying to be argumentative, it's just that when you say the .45 Super can't touch the 10mm, that's not true.
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Is that a legitimate ballistic data for that particular 45 Super there Ruger45LC, because 1k+ ft. lbs. in a semi-auto is impressive, especially if could be used as a EDC load.
 
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