10mm auto advice ?

I guess the Sig 220 is in my future for a new 10mm. I don't have a lot of patience with problem guns..but I have had other 220's over the years that performed well. I still have numerous Sigs..including a 220 carry version that shoots very accurately. * * *

Some previous poster claimed that Sig's SA triggers weren't as nice as a 1911's. All I can suggest is that you try to find a SAO 10mm P220 in a LGS near you, and see if they'll let you handle and dry-fire it.

A regional Cabelas had two of them in stock back when I was looking around for the DA/SA Elite model. One was the Kryptek Camo SAO model, the other was sort of a bead-blasted stainless model with Rosewood grips, as I recall. That one I handled and dry-fired that day, and I thought the SAO trigger was great. Some months later, I got to actually fire the 10mm Kryptek Camo P220 that a range member had. I thought its SA trigger was excellent as well.

Again, see if you can find one local somewhere and finger-test it first, if possible.
 
So what's the opinion of folk shooting 10mm as to damaged brass? Specifically is the 10mm brass from a Glock really hard to reload because of the 'Glock bulge'? Are the other guns much easier on the brass?

Most bulged Glock brass is no problem for reloading, as the bulge is well forward on the case.
Bulged cases that I've seen ejected from Deltas tend to show a bulge immediately forward of the extraction groove, where a sizer die won't necessarily reach, and where there might actually be damage to the case.
Depending on how hot you want to load - hot enough to potentially damage the bras? - service life might be only a few loadings, regardless.
 
So what's the opinion of folk shooting 10mm as to damaged brass? Specifically is the 10mm brass from a Glock really hard to reload because of the 'Glock bulge'? Are the other guns much easier on the brass?

I switched to a Lone Wolf barrel so I'd not have issues with this. The factory chamber is large like most Glocks and does balloon the brass. That said, I have never had an issue resizing Glocked brass but I prefer not to Glock it in the first place hence the LW barrels.

The problem with the 10mm IMO is the lack of bullets designed for terminal performance at 10mm velocities. Hard cast would likely be best.

I have a load with the 200 Nosler HP at 1200 feet from my 5.3" LW barreled Glock 20. I don't think much of the bullet however and would favor more choices. The XTP will work and that's likely the best choice for expanding 10mm Hunting bullets.

That's why I favor a Revolver (cartridge) for Hunting.
 
I said the Sig 220 trigger, even in SAO, is not nearly as good as a 1911 trigger....and that opinion holds for any of the Sig triggers that are suspended by a pin ...even on the Sig 226 X-Five L1 model with the adjustable trigger..( which I have in .40 S&W ).../ it still has to move thru an arc...vs straight back and forth in a 1911. As nice a gun as the 226 X-5 L1 model is ...its not as good a gun as either of my Wilson Combat 1911's.
 
Old Stony will enjoy that sig 220. I've had a Nitron SAO version over a year. I just bought a Ruger SR 1911 10mm. Took both guns to the range eight of my reloads and some Sig 180gr. Average rested group size was the same with both guns. The Sig has a bit better trigger. Neither gun bulges brass. Both have 100% reliable cycling with 220 rounds through the Ruger and 800-ish on the Sig. Offhand shooting is better with the Sig. It blots up recoil better than the Ruger. I can tell I'll get better with the Ruger as I shoot it more. Had a Glock 40 and never could get very good with it, but its new owner loves it. I think the Sig is worth its price. I love shooting 10mm and got the Ruger for volume shooting plus I'm not worried about wear and tear from hot loads with it.
 
OK, for the 10mm I have to throw this out there. I personally feel to wring the full potential from the round, without having wear issues in 5k or so rounds, that the 1911 is not the best platform unless its compensated. The first colt delta elites just simply couldn't handle the round. That has changed, and apparently they are better now, but I still don't trust them (or any 1911) for high round counts with full power 10mm ammo unless the gun is tuned to handle it. IMO, that tuning includes a compensator. Sure, you may be good for 4 or 5k rounds with few or no problems. The casual shooter may take 10 years to hit that mark. I will not. I don't do less than 1k rounds a year for any semi-auto I own except one antique.

For full potential 10mm AND durability, I would trust a Glock or a star (the later based only on internet knowledge, but that knowledge seems to be common logic). My $.02
 
To what purpose is a 10mm put that requires shooting a lot of full-power ammo?
It's not a good self-defense round, and hunting doesn't require high volume practice, so . . .
I have a late'-80s Delta, with maybe 2000 rounds through it, and not more than 10% have been full-power, as cans and cardboard can't tell the difference.
 
Actually the 10mm is a very good defensive round...its just difficult to shoot for more people because of the recoil over most other popular options in semi-auto handguns ( so followup shots are not as quick / and in rapid fire its tougher to control for many shooters so it becomes less accurate in their hands).

For Hunting Hogs, like the OP wants to do ( brush gun, backup to his AR as he says), balistically the 10mm is only slightly better than the .357 Mag....not nearly as effective as the .44mag ...let alone in something like the .475 Linebaugh...but for most of those rounds you are into revolver territory / and the OP says he didn't want a revolver. So he is leaning toward the Sig 220 in 10mm...as an affordable option.

In terms of a gun holding up against full power 10mm loads...yes, I think the Sig 220 will hold up / so will a 1911 like a Wilson Combat...( some of the Wilson models in 10mm, like the Hunter model are compensated )- to help with muzzle jump in the 10mm or .460 Rowland that it comes in / if you were to go with the .460 Rowland, its ballistics are very close to a .44 Mag..and you still get the semi-auto over a revolver.

Personally, like I said earlier, I would still go with a revolver....in .44 Mag or .475 Linebaugh...but that's not what the OP wants...but to say the 10mm is not an effective defensive round, in the right hands, is too general.

Whatever he chooses for his backup brush gun on Hogs...he should practice with it a lot...with the ammo he intends to carry it with in the woods.../ a few hundred rounds at least, before he takes it in woods...and I would say a box or two a month at least. So sure, he will only put 2,000 rds a year thru the gun ...not a big deal in my view. I think the Sig 220 can easily handle that for 10 yrs plus... ( and the Wilson Hunter ...or any S&W revolver..or Freedom Arms revolver will far exceed that / even 50,000 rounds thru a Wilson Combat 1911 is not a big deal ).
 
I do a lot of hog hunting, and that's the reason for the 10mm
The Glock G40 was designed with your purpose in mind.
The G40 Gen4 in the MOS Configuration is chambered in 10mm and combines a full 6-inch barrel for an improved velocity with a magazine capacity of 15 rounds. The G40 Gen4 in MOS configuration is a powerful yet easily carried pistol; perfect for the outdoorsperson, hunter and sport shooter.
 
To what purpose is a 10mm put that requires shooting a lot of full-power ammo?

Well, if you read the OP's initial post, he specified hog hunting, and real (i.e., full-power) 10mm ammo will most assuredly put hogs down more effectively than the watered-down .40-level crapola. Try 220gn hard-cast slugs @ 1250fps. And since those aren't exactly powder-puff loads, he might want to practice "a lot."

By the way, the 10mm has been used to take African dangerous game, not just deer or hogs here in the states. See attached pic (Razor Dobbs & his 10mm DW 1911).

It's not a good self-defense round, and hunting doesn't require high volume practice, so . . .

Huh? Wut? :rolleyes:

The 10mm AUTO has been an excellent defensive cartridge ever since its inception and was, in fact, designed to be a "better .45" for combat use, per Col. Jeff Cooper.

It's role as a handgun-hunting round was a secondary use developed later, principally from the platform of the old S&W 6.5" 10mm 610 revolvers. More recent years have seen autoloaders with 6" barrels developed for the same purpose, e.g., the Glock 40, Tanfoglio's Witness "Hunter" model, and the various 6" longslide 10mm 1911s, like the DW Bruin.
 

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The 10mm AUTO has been an excellent defensive cartridge ever since its inception and was, in fact, designed to be a "better .45" for combat use, per Col. Jeff Cooper.

In fairness the theoretical round proposed by Cooper ended up being much closer to what the .40 was than the 10MM even though he helped in the idea of the 10MM. Norma and the guys at Bren kept pushing beyond the targets he proposed. Thus the "downloaded" .40 (or the weak 10MMs) were closer to the theoretical numbers he proposed.
 
10mm was supposed to be service cartridge to supplant .45 ACP - 200 grains at 1000fps - not a magnum.

Despite the "FBI agents couldn't handle real 10mm" narrative, what was really determined was that 10mm Lite passed the FBI's ballistics tests without the muzzle blast and recoil of full-power 10mm.
Full-power 10 is not a great self-defense round, if the varmints have only two legs.

Cooper admitted, late in life, that "10mm hits as hard at 75 yards as .45 hits at the muzzle" doesn't much matter when self-defense shootings are likely to take place at distances closer to 75 inches than 75 yards.
 
To what purpose is a 10mm put that requires shooting a lot of full-power ammo?

To what purpose would I get a 10mm and shoot mostly watered-down ammo? If that be the case I may as well just buy a .40s&w and be done with it. After all, there are some screaming deals on .40s&w handguns and ammo these days. I have numerous other calibers that I can shoot with lower recoil. If I'm to have a 10mm, it will be to shoot 10mm out of and not hot .40s&w. I mean I understand plinking around sometimes... but not most of the time or even a lot of the time for me.
 
I've owned a P220 in 45 Auto and loved it, but sold it (Elite Stainless). At the time I didn't "see any use for it". So, it wasn't a 10, but I'm very confident the big Sig would make an excellent 10mm for sure--if you're okay with the single stack thing.

As for the general question of a 10mm auto pistol, you know they vary widely in size, weight and capacity, so it's really going to come down to which 2 or 3 do you want. I carry the G29 and for me, it's an excellent carry. It's not the most comfortable handgun I own, you need to be prepared to practice enough to really control it, and I find the trigger to be okay and good enough for a carry (I have an after market 3 lb in it, and pull is longer that stock but okay).

Someone asked about brass damage, and I'd say yes--you're not going to be happy with Glocked brass coming out of that thing with the stock barrel. I have the full length case squeezer die, and I'm sorry--there's no full recovery of the brass. You can still fire it again, but it's ugly, permanently damaged and a sad, sad thing. In my experience with Starline brass, that stuff is pretty much like butter--with loads near published max (you only have to get close--you don't have to be at or above max) and the brass squirts out of that chamber like Play-Doh.

I also own a G20 and don't really shoot it much at all--it's even less comfortable than the G29, and is just kind of a so-so gun--great nightstand gun, I guess, if you're okay having an unholstered Glock on the nightstand. I'm not, so it pretty much sits in my desk drawer.

The nicest feeling, handling and shooting somewhat 1911-ish doublestack I've ever fired is my Witness Hunter, but I don't believe they import them anymore, and the triggers on those are a bit goofy. But, the grip is less than 1/8" wider than a gov't 1911 and or my medium hands and short fingers, it's actually quite a bit more comfy than a 1911 to me--which is saying a lot.

Now, for a doublestack 1911 that shoots well and that I can afford to actually own, I've had my Rock Island FS II for about a year now, I think and love it. It's not without a few issues, but I'm happy to work through them, especially given the price. I'll go thru the negatives first:

The front sight is a fiber optic--I hate fiber optic sights, but this isn't a problem for me because after about 1,000 rds, the little fiber optic thing fell out of the sight, and now it behaves like a decent front sight. Problem solved.

The magazine design doesn't accommodate handloads with a coal as long as I need to load for the glocks--I have to seat a good bit shorter to get the magazines loaded and for them to feed. Again, this is really only an issue if I'm running XTP or similar bullets, and I have not had issues setting up my favorite round nose flat point cast, or Gold Dots.

Sharp edges and corners. This thing has more sharp corners and edges than you can shake a stick at, and I found that after a couple hundred rounds, I sure could feel it. I've addressed this by knocking off all the pointy corners I could find (around the safety lever(s) and the grip area near the safety, and the magwell at the back strap).

Those scalloped G-10 grip panels--yikes. Not sure who thought shooting a gun with a snow tire for a grip would be a good thing, but I can tell you that after a few hundreds rounds in a session, those scalloped grips just chew my hands up pretty good.

That's it. These would be more serious complaints for some shooters, for me they are not big issues. I've corrected the issues that bug me, and can replace those grips.

For the positives--fit and finish are excellent for my tastes. Black, matte, no writing, no two-tone crap--just a matte black pistol. I like that. The gun is quite comfortable for a somewhat boxier-than-necessary Caspian-style frame, but I prefer somewhat fatter grip anyway. I find it comparable to a G20 that way, but far more natural feeling.

The adjustable rear sight has stayed put since I got the gun, and the gun is as accurate as anything I've fired in 10mm.

I'd buy another one, if I needed another 10mm auto pistol. I think it's a very well-made 1911 at a price that, for me, is reasonable.

As for the legend and lore of 10mm--yes. This cartridge seems to have an amazing amount of expectations far in excess of what is reasonable, to me. There seems to be an abundance of shooters who truly believe it is or should be a 41 Magnum, can be loaded to well beyond any published specs, and is basically a polar bear stopper. My recommendation would be to look at a) the published SAAMI recommendations for pressure, bullet weight and MV, and b) look at published load data where the peak chamber pressure is published. Compare. It's a great auto pistol cartridge--it's not magic. I've loaded maybe 10,000 rds or so for it, and with my problem powders such as Longshot, I don't have to get very near max loads to have primers falling out of the stretched case heads after firing. So far, I've found AA 9 to be The Perfect propellant for 10mm...nothing else I've tried comes close for clean, accurate and excellent performance within spec pressure.
 
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The Sig has good accuracy and brass lasts a long time. Not really much secret to why, excellent case support so you never get bulges and I am certain that helps accuracy as well.
 
Bongo Boy - the Witness Hunter is still being imported. I picked up mine in October to keep the LimPro company (that one is no longer imported). I agree on the Witness being more comfortable than a 1911. I was 100% a 1911 fan until I got the LimPro, I still like 1911s but they are number 2 to the Witnesses.
 
* * * I've loaded maybe 10,000 rds or so for it, and with my problem powders such as Longshot, I don't have to get very near max loads to have primers falling out of the stretched case heads after firing. So far, I've AA 9 to be The Perfect propellant for 10mm.

No question, handloading for the 10mm AUTO is where you'll discover the true potential of the cartridge. It's actually a very forgiving cartridge to reload. I've probably loaded about 8K rds of 10mm over time, but I also reload for other cartridges - various rifle calibers, and the .45acp - so that eats into available bench time for the 10mm.

AA9 is excellent, as is AA7. Both meter well and are stable across temperature variations. I prefer CCI 350 primers for ignition in cold weather.
 
Bongo Boy - the Witness Hunter is still being imported. I picked up mine in October to keep the LimPro company (that one is no longer imported). I agree on the Witness being more comfortable than a 1911. I was 100% a 1911 fan until I got the LimPro, I still like 1911s but they are number 2 to the Witnesses.

And again, ... for a dedicated "hunting" 10mm pistol, not one for CCW/EDC, the OP may want to revisit the factor of barrel-length and perhaps consider what pistol choices come with 6" tubes. Obviously, the Sig 10mm P220s are 5" propositions.

In addition to the extra inch to keep the MV/ME up, you get the longer sight radius when shooting with iron sights. The G40 MOS adds the option to run a mini-RDS.

The Tanfoglio "Hunter" has CZ-ish ergonomics and greater mag capacity than the longslide 1911s, excepting the one or two double-stack wide-body models. RIA offers one of those, I believe. Trigger are likely going to be better on one of the 1911s

I already have a G40 MOS which rides in Galco's Great Alaskan center-chest holster, so for me that pistol fills the niche of a 10mm "hunting" pistol, ... as well as a general camping/hiking/backwoods-boonies trail gun.

However, if I was looking for a 6" non-Glock option, I'd sure be looking hard at the Dan Wesson Bruin. Yeah, it's definitely spendy, no doubt. But DW 1911s have great triggers, and the Bruin's adjustable Trijicon sights appear sturdy (for outdoor use) and are well-anchored in properly cut dovetails.
 
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With the emphasis on hunting, I completely agree you might as well go for the full power of the 10mm and maximize the velocity with the 6” barrel.

I thought about a DW Bruin when I bought the Hunter. Came down to how much I enjoyed my previously owned custom 1911 to how much I enjoy my Limited Pro. Just couldn’t justify the Bruin’s cost give the preference for the Witness line. The Witness took some of the luster away from the 1911s for me, kinda like the 10mm killed my interest in 45ACP.

The trigger difference is interesting, but it wouldn’t be the deciding factor on two options for me. Oddly, I think the trigger in my Coonan is my favorite though. Maybe in 3.5lb range and hinged, but it just works well for me. It’s closer to the Witness trigger than a 1911 trigger.
 
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