1000-yard hunting with a .308

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I just don't have much use for anyone that would consider shooting a deer or elk at 1000 yards - whether he hit it or not.

Years ago my cousin had a buddy he had met while long range shooting. The buddy was an old codger whose name I occasionally come across in old competition shooting books, as being national class. The old guy wanted to shoot a deer at long range, and he got his chance. Shot a doe at something over 700 yards, and mentioned it to me a couple of days later. To him the doe was just a target. It wasn't hunting. He just wanted to shoot one a long way off. I didn't like it, but I kept my mouth shut. That's not hunting. If somebody wants to target shoot, shoot paper. You can't gut shoot paper.
 
Is it ethical? So long as the guy has a license_ legal caliber_ permission/ or public land to hunt_ and shoots during legal time of day. As far as I'm concerned what he decides to do back in the bush is> his business. Would I attempt the same? No!
 
I shoot 1000 m on a regular basis with a 1950s Remington 721 in 30-06. I simply will NOT shoot at an elk beyond 600m. Yes I know I can hit a target BUT I want my animal Dead On the Spot instead of having to track it for six miles and then bone it out in the bottom of some forlorn canyon by the light of my headlamp or a kerosene lantern while watching over my shoulder for coyotes or other preditors.

I hope you were wearing boots when your customer was in your shop and your swept up after him after he left cus he sure was slinging some stuff.
 
i watch the black hats shoot at 1000yds at out gun club and the sighter gong is 20" and they don,t miss it to often, once they get dialed in and read the wind and mirage right, 8-10" groups are pretty normal for them. about 40 years ago i watched long range shooters here in pa. shooting deer at beween 800-1000 yds, they had painted rocks at know distances and knew the clicks to be right on at those ranges and they killed deer dead. their bullets were still carrying 1600-1700fps and 1000-1100fpe at those ranges. is that kind of shooting for me, NO. but i know it can be done. eastbank.
 
I am confident that many people could hit a deer sized target with my Armalite Match Ar-10.
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For clarifiaction, what exactly do you consider a "deer size" target? A target the size of a deer, or a target the size of the kill zone on a deer?


Is it ethical? So long as the guy has a license_ legal caliber_ permission/ or public land to hunt_ and shoots during legal time of day.
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Sorry, but equating "legal" with "ethical" and the idea that anyone would allow a government legislature to deterine what is ethical, shows either a lack of undertstanding of the word "ethical" or an unrealistic faith in politicians to have the same ethics as you and force them on the public as law.
 
This is more of a question of "would you" rather than "can you" from my perspective. I agree with just because I can't doesn't mean someone else can't.

Somewhere mixed up in the ballistics equations, environmental variables and probabilities of things changing like a living, moving target I think there is a larger question of "hunting vs. killing." I'm sure there are very accomplished long-range hunters out there--but the few I've talked to on the subject struck me as being more of a "killing type" than a "hunter type." A hunter type being more concerned about high odds of putting meat in the freezer as opposed to a killing type who wants the thrill of a technically demanding shot or another head on the trophy wall.
 
He claimed he had lots of experience shooting at that distance
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I have lots of experience in shooting the 308 at 1000 yards.

No way in hades will I hunt elk at 1000 yards with a 308.

A 308 is more then capable of poking holes in paper at 1000.

Elk are tougher then paper targets.
 
Seems in the last few years, that's what it's all about. Increasing the distance one can shoot with the new technology instead of decreasing the distance by improving your hunting skills. Used to be with a bow, a long shot was 30 yards. Now with the new bows and lightweight shafts, folks seem to think anyone can take a 80 yard shot. Muzzle loaders used to be primitive weapons. Now with the priming systems they have, the Sabot-ed bullets and BDC scopes, one may as well be using a Ruger #1. I remember when the challenge of turkey hunting was to call the bird within 35 yards. Now, folks buy a box of Hevi-shot and a Gobble-buster choke tube and start flinging lead at 70 yards. For every extra bird they get doing this, they probably wound/main 4.

There is technology out there for a scope that will not only range the target and adjust the elevation, but also the angle of the shot and measure any wind by a wind meter on the scope and by measuring movement of leaves downrange next to the target. Soon shooting at any target, even at the outer limits of the guns capabilities, will be like the new digital cameras.....point and click. Still, folks will claim it was a tough hunt.:rolleyes:
 
Sorry, but equating "legal" with "ethical" and the idea that anyone would allow a government legislature to deterine what is ethical, shows either a lack of undertstanding of the word "ethical" or an unrealistic faith in politicians to have the same ethics as you and force them on the public as law.
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Ethical: Is one's moral values.
Legal: Is being Lawful.

So what's your point?
 
Sorry, but equating "legal" with "ethical" and the idea that anyone would allow a government legislature to deterine what is ethical, shows either a lack of undertstanding of the word "ethical" or an unrealistic faith in politicians to have the same ethics as you and force them on the public as law.
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IMHO, most laws have everything to do with a Government dictating ethics to us. Speed limits, age of consent, laws against theft of property, etc, etc. Many game laws such as season dates and weapons legal to use are based on what that agency has determined to be ethical. This is why some states allow the use of bait/dogs for deer and some don't. Same reason many states have minimum calibers while some don't, Matter of locally imposed ethics, and enforced by laws.
 
Is it ethical? So long as the guy has a license_ legal caliber_ permission/ or public land to hunt_ and shoots during legal time of day.
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IMHO, most laws have everything to do with a Government dictating ethics to us. Speed limits, age of consent, laws against theft of property, etc, etc. Many game laws such as season dates and weapons legal to use are based on what that agency has determined to be ethical. This is why some states allow the use of bait/dogs for deer and some don't. Same reason many states have minimum calibers while some don't, Matter of locally imposed ethics, and enforced by laws.
Ethical: Is one's moral values.
Legal: Is being Lawful.

So what's your point?
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My point is that both these statements seem to imply that if it is legal, it must be ethical, and that hunting methods and activities are always ethical provided there are no specific laws prohibiting it. That a 1000 yard shot at an elk with a .308 is ethical based on whether or not a state issues citations for wounded or unrecovered animals, and not on the probability of whether or not it will result in a clean kill. I'm not arguing whther the shot is ethical or not, and for whom it would be ethical. I'm arguing against letting the law be the standard.

I'm sorry if I am not interpretting your statements as you intended them to mean.
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Would you do it with an '06? Just curious...
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99% of my '06 shooting is in the CMP Vintage Rifle games, My Garand, M1903a3, M1917 I shoot at 200 yards. My M1993A4 is 300 & 600 yards.

I built a Vietnam era Model 70 sniper rifle, I did shoot it in a 1000 yard match, it did good but I rather use my AMU Built 308 M-70.

I do have a Pre 64 Model 70 in 06 I use once in a while for hunting, just because.

Most of my hunting is either with my M70 Feather weights (257 for deer and antelope and 270 Win Elk.

I'm not a 1000 yard hunter.
 
can we just bury this thread and get it over with? once ethics enters the fray there is no way to redeem a thread.

here are some facts about ethics.

1. every person's ideas of ethics is a little different.

2. law does not necessarily reflect ethics. speed limits, texting while driving, jaywalking, taxation, and stay off the grass laws have no bearing whatsoever on ethics, yet they are still laws.

3. ethics are formed by a combination of environmental stimuli.
I personally would not hunt deer over a feeder because it violates my own personal ethics, yet that's par for the course in many southern states. I personally would not hunt deer with 22LR, yet it's legal and quite often done in some states. I don't decry anyone for using those methods, I simply abstain from using them myself. in many states, it's almost unheard of to have to shoot beyond 100 yards, and I've been called unethical for making 350 yard shots yet where I grew up, it was not only unheard of but expected to make shots as far as 500 yards. so please. stop imposing your ethics on other members.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrQqPdRgw_w

Here is a video of a hunter taking an elk at 875 yards with a .308. He seems to be a great shooter who knows himself and his rifle very well. It is an impressive shot.

However, I can't help but notice the time between the shot going off and impacting the animal. Seems like it's a dice roll at that point. What if something spooks the animal, or it turns its head to scratch an itch? Maybe it sees something good and walks over to eat it. That could turn your neck shot into a high shoulder or leg shot, even if you had a perfectly placed shot to begin with.
 
I first heard of such desires back in the 1950's. Some things never change.

Someone needs to take this errant, but well intentioned, hunter aside and get real with him in a manner he understands.
 
This is probably going to come as a shock--but there are plenty of "hunters" out there who don't mind taking risky shots, I've even heard "coyotes gotta eat too."

I remember on some forum a guy claimed he could take a deer at some longish range. To prove his point he had a spotter go with him and he had the guy film it. Sure enough he dropped the deer and the video showed him proudly displaying his shooting prowess.

As I recall, the hunt club threw him out of the club and banned him from hunting there. Not necessarily because he wasn't a very good long range shooter--but because at that long of a range he had a minimal target and virtually no knowledge of what else might be in the back or edge of a limited field of vision.
 
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