100 vs 100

Used to be you could get a Savage 110 in 243 Win. But then again Savage actions were LONG to begin with...

Other long actions that were chambered in 243 Win were M98 Mausers and M70 Winchesters.

Of course you could always go with a Rem700 long action to handle a short 308 size cartridge, like the Army did with the M24.

It isn't outside the realm of possibilities.

Jimro
 
Shouldn't sectional density be part of the equation? Doesn't it help determine how well a bullet penetrates?
 
The 25-06 is being unfairly handicapped in this discussion because of the insistence on using 100 grain bullets in it. The 25-06 will easily handle 120 grain bullets. There may be 117 .243 bullets available, but most 243s don't have a fast enough twist to stabilize them, which is why there's no factory 243 ammo over 100 grains.

The only advantage of the 243 is that it fits in a short action. Otherwise the 25-06 is a superior deer round. If I really wanted a short action, I'd get one - in 7mm-08.
 
I think natman's on the right track. Compare the two calibers with bullets of equal sectional density. There has to be some leveling of the playing field else any one of several things could tip the scale towards one's emotions.
 
I am not interested in a 270 or 7-08. I want either a 243 or 25-06. I am leaning towards the 243.
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Fair enough. Then get the 25-06 and load it with 120 grain bullets. Larger bullet, heavier bullet and better sectional density than a .243 100 grain.

243 advocates may argue that the 25-06 kicks more and that's true, but unless you have some physical disability you should have no problem dealing with the recoil of a 25-06.

The 243 is an adequate deer cartridge, but the 25-06 is a really good deer cartridge.
 
Pronghorn sized game aren't exactly bulletproof.

If elk were an option I would recommend the 25-06 over the 243 Win hands down any day of the week. But for pronghorn? Flip a coin you win either way.

I still recommend handling a number of rifles in both chamberings (or long/short action representatives) and finding the rifle that fits you best, then letting the caliber be what it ends up being.

Jimro
 
Either will work fine

At extreme range the edge would go to the .25-06
For all practical purposes a .243 is perfect for deer and antelope. I've never been too big a fan of the .25-06.
It just seems to be something that is too much for deer sized game and too little for larger animals.
 
Not sure about your neck of the woods but where I'm at .243 ammo is almost non existent for some reason. Even .22lr is easier to find around here.
 
Having owned and shot deer with both I would say get whichever one you want, no deer or antelope will ever know the difference if you do your part correctly. Personally I loved my .25-06 until someone came along who had a little cash and wanted it more than I did, my wife would not trade her .243 for nothing. The .25-06 has more potential, the .243 is easier to shoot, both kill antelope and deer just fine.
 
There is significant difference between 243 and 25-06

25-06
Remington Core-lokt 100 gr = Ballistics Information:
•Muzzle Velocity: 3230 fps
•Muzzle Energy: 2316 ft. lbs.

Federal
•Bullet Weight: 100 Grains
•Bullet Style: Nosler Ballistic Tip
Ballistics Information:
•Muzzle Velocity: 3210 fps
•Muzzle Energy: 2288 ft. lbs.

243 Winchester
Remington Core-lokt 100 gr = Ballistics Information:
Muzzle Velocity: 2960 fps
Muzzle Energy: 1945 ft. lbs.

Federal
Technical Information •Caliber: 243 Winchester
•Bullet Weight: 95 Grains
•Bullet Style: Nosler Ballistic Tip
Ballistics Information:
•Muzzle Velocity: 3030 fps
•Muzzle Energy: 1936 ft. lbs.
 
I've shot pronghorn, and either will kill them. 25-06 is the better round if you think you might also shoot mule deer or anything larger, especially at ranges longer than 300 yards.

All the discussion about sectional density, long/short action, velocity, etc is interesting, but don't over-think the decision. In the field, there is minimal difference.

What cartridge can you find accurate hunting ammo for cheaper? (those pronghorn are small!! I shot mine at 330 yards) Does the rifle you like come chambered in only one of the two calibers? Does one of the calibers just sound more appealing to you (even if there is no explainable reason why)?
 
Colorado Redneck,

Lets look at the data in a different light. I used your load data for Nosler Ballistic Silvertips and came up with the following...

Max point blank zero for the 243 on a 5" vital zone radius is 346 yards.
Max point blank zero for the 25-06 on a 5" vital zone radius is 376 yards.

What looks like an impressive difference at the muzzle doesn't seem so impressive when all it does is give you an extra 30 yards of point blank zero range. After all, we don't shoot animals at the muzzle very often.

Jimro
 
Has anyone found a .257 cal bullet with a BC over .5 G1?

I don't know why people claim .25-06 is better at range, when it's pretty clear there's higher BC bullets available in 6mm. At range, the velocity advantage of the .25-06 is lost due to wind resistance.

Basically splitting hairs but..

100 grain .25 interlock VS 100 grain .243 interlock

.25-06 has .6'' less drop, 2'' more wind drift, 20FPS slower impact speed and about 18ft/lbs less energy @ 400 yards. From there the 6mm will continue to outpace the .257cal because of it's BC.

That's just a flat based soft point BTW. If you used VLD's in the 6mm the difference in BC would become much greater, as I mentioned before there simply isn't a great selection of streamlined bullet in .25 cal, and I think that's where it's weakness lies. If there was better projectile selection for the .257 it would likely have the advantage at all ranges over the .243 win.

If we compare berger's 105 grain VLD in 6mm and their 115 grain in .257 cal (these bullet are roughly equally heavy for caliber)

.257 cal 3000FPS, G1 BC .466
.243 cal 2986FPS G1 BC .532

@400 yards

.257
19.3'' drop from a 200 yard zero
2230 impact velocity, 1104ft-lbs impact energy
12.5'' wind drift

.243
18.7'' drop from 200 yard zero
2306 impact velocity, 1240ft-lbs impact energy
10.9'' wind drift

With current projectiles on the market, the .243 has the edge. If .25-06's had faster twists and longer, more streamlined bullets it would have an advantage over the .243 win. Maybe it'll change in a few years. The .277 cal had the same problem when compared to .264/.284 cal. VLD selection was and still is fairly limited but not quite as limited as it was a few years ago.

For most purposes the game wont know the difference, which is why the cartridge's price and availability become the more important factors.

Oh, and just incase there's any doubt of the .243's performance at long range, I'll just leave this here, for those who haven't seen it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY0w1c-gf18
 
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The only question you need ask yourself is, "Do you want a long action or a short?" One of 'em is based on the .30-06, the other .308. No antelope anywhere will know or care what bullet killed it.
Otherwise, the only thing that matters is the availability of ammo and brass wherever you are.
 
When you start talking about the VLD bullets, are you into hand loading? There is one manufacturer of ammo---HSM---that loads a 95 gr. VLD at an advertised velocity of 3174 fps.

Nosler shows a hand load for the 115 gr. Ballistic Tip (BC=0.453) for 25-06 that is advertised at 3170 fps using Retumbo powder. I have worked up a load using that powder and the 110 gr. Accubond that hits their advertised velocity almost exactly over my chrony.

We are getting into hair splitting, and I certainly have nothing against the 243 Win or 6 mm Remington. In fact, if I didn't like my 25-06 so much the 243 would be my first choice as a replacement.

I posted a video from Butler Long Range Shooting a few years ago showing some lady shooting an elk at 600+ yards with a 243. That is impressive, as the only thing I shoot over about 400 yards is the bull. But given the same equipment etc with a 25-06 using the highest available hand load with the 115 gr. BT, that same thing can be accomplished by a comparably skilled shooter. The video is simply a demonstration of outstanding accuracy AND equipment and shooting.


I think the same argument could be made about the venerable 30-06 and the 7 mm Mag. All in how you feel about what you need and the personal preferences you carry in your head. Ultimately, the shooter has to decide.

One other issue that comes up is the "long action" vs. "short action." To me, that is a non-issue. I have never seen a convincing argument or explanation that is the least bit convincing that short action has any discernible advantage. JMO.

Good discussion. :D
 
How much game is shot over 400 yards?

That is another consideration. Some of us can and will shoot longer distances, so that kind of performance comes into consideration in about 0.01% of the instances of game hunting.
 
How much game is shot over 400 yards?
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Not sure, that depends on the hunter(s) and areas they operate in...
I was addressing comments such as these.

25-06 is the better round if you think you might also shoot mule deer or anything larger, especially at ranges longer than 300 yards.
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At extreme range the edge would go to the .25-06
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However, if you go heavier, the 25-06 will have the advantage at longer ranges.
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Assuming both projectiles are of similar construction, which one would perform better on pronghorn size game?
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No. They will perform the same terminally, ceteris paribus, or so close that it won't matter ever. One has higher sectional density; the other has wider diameter. I suppose if you HAD to make this judgment call, the .25-'06 might perform better, say 52 times out of 100, just due to the expansion ratio & more powder resulting in a smidge more velocity. More accurately, I'd say that at close range, with lightly constructed bullets, the .243 would perform better, as it would hold together better going slower and thus give better penetrration; but at same close range, with premium bullets, the .25-'06 would perform better by giving slightly better penetration. But at long ranges and in reality, there will be no difference. And note that speed goats are not usually shot at less than 100 yards - they are sometimes of course, even with archery equipment, but not often. So pick the one you like. Arguably, you've definitely got the right "short list" - for my money, those two are THE desert / plains longrange speed goat chamberings.

But as mentioned, if you add large desert mulies into the mix, then go .25-'06 (or even .270 Win or .280 Rem).

JD0x0, you are exactly right. However, the OP is apparently wanting to keep discussion strictly to 100 gr vs. 100 gr, and presumably exclude VLDs which require a non-standard twist (i.e. not 1 in 8 or 1 in 9 in .243; but rather 1 in 10). "Hunting bullets" in these two chamberings have BCs close enough to not matter at all reasonable hunting ranges. And by that I mean 350-400 yards and under. 450 yards + is NOT a reasonable hunting range. Remember, a speed goats vital zone is smaller than other large game and looks the size of a flea through a 10 power scope at 400 yards. But even if it is a reasonable range, the BCs of the two calibers in "hunting bullets" of same weight are pretty close.
 
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