1.5 seconds from draw to fire thread

I think a 1.5 second draw is a minimum standard from an open carry with retention device (thumb snap or other) at 7 yards with good torso hit. The mechanics involve raising the pistol to eye level and actually seeing the front sight before squeezing. From my experience it seems that the average trained persons (LEO for example) can get between the 1 second and 1.5 second mark with practice. Something right around one second following the same mechanics is what I would call above average. One half to three quarters of second is very fast.
 
Just a tidbit about fast draws.

Glenn Ford, the actor is considered one of the fastest in Hollywood.

On the average he draws and fires at 4/10ths of a second.

All it takes is a bit of practice.
 
kraigwy said:
Just a tidbit about fast draws.

Glenn Ford, the actor is considered one of the fastest in Hollywood.

On the average he draws and fires at 4/10ths of a second.

All it takes is a bit of practice.
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Maybe shooting from the hip without aiming.

TGO (Rob Leatham) draws from a Production division legal holster, shooting A zone on a 20yrd target in just over 1.1sec with a XDm 5.25 in 9mm. Just watched a practice drill vid with him, he said he was pushing it some but didn't want to sacrifice hitting A zone on the far target.
 
In reference to the 1.5 seconds, draw and fire. I think you are giving a bit more time then needed. In that, both in training and qualification, we are required to fire 2 rounds in 2 seconds from locked holster (all levels of retention engaged) and there is still what seems like, at least to me, 1 second left after the 2 rounds are fired. Im not a fast shot either, but with training, practice, proper motivation (losing my job if I dont qualify) it is not that big of an issue.
 
I would love to see a video with a shot timer of some of these alleged 0.50 second draws.
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Me too.

I was practicing for the Steel Challenge Nationals a few days ago with my Ruger 22/45. On the Smoke and Hope stage, I was getting first round hits in 0.4 to 0.45 sec. Keep in mind that’s with a .22 from the low-ready position on an 18X24 inch target about 9 yds away. Dave Sevigny, who ought to know what he’s talking about, thought that was pretty damn quick.

There are lots of tales of guys getting 1st round hits in under a second from concealment. Talk’s cheap. Let’s see the videos with timers running.
 
I am not inclined to believe that even 10% of armed confrontations boil down to speed of draw determining the victor. That being said, I see nothing wrong with someone practicing...thats always a good thing. Me- personally, I do not worry about time clocks or what the badguys athletic abilities might be. I focus on my abilities and what I am going to do to stop a threat. I have no idea how fast I can draw. I have never drawn a weapon as fast at humanly possible and dont really care. I know that I can draw in a clean and deliberate manner and reholster in the same fashion. If I had to guess, my draw speed is as fast as I feel is responsible and with me, its about 90% of what I could probably do. I respect everyones opinion and I realize that mine is in the minority (as usual). :)
 
...I am not inclined to believe that even 10% of armed confrontations boil down to speed of draw determining the victor....I focus on my abilities and what I am going to do to stop a threat. I have no idea how fast I can draw. I have never drawn a weapon as fast at humanly possible and dont really care. I know that I can draw in a clean and deliberate manner and reholster in the same fashion...
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The point of a fast draw is not speed for its own sake. It's simply that if you do need your gun, you have no way to know in advance how much time you'll have in which to put it to use.

When it comes down to it, it's really not a question of quick draw or fast draw. It's a question of how long it can take us to perceive the threat, determine the need to fire, deploy our gun and engage the threat with accurate fire, having made the decision that shooting is warranted.

So how much time will we have in which to do all of that? I have no idea and neither do you. It's going to all depend on what happens and how it happens. We might have lots of time, or we might have very little. We simply can't know in advance.

If we can't get done what we need to do in the time circumstances allow us, we will not be happy with the outcome. Good training and diligent practice can help reduce the time we need to be able to effectively do what we need to be able to do. And since I can't know how much time I'll have, I'd rather not give up time if I can avoid it.
 
Keep in mind the following. The average human being can sprint over the area of a football field or 100 meters at about 17 mph.
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Not exactly. I don't believe anyone runs the area of a football field at 17 mph, but may run its length.

So 17 mph =24.93 fps

When you talkg about a person running the length of a football field, or about 100 meters, what length of field are you talking about? You have the main field and then you have the main field with 10 yard end zones added. At 17 mph...
100 yards 12.03 seconds
120 yards 14.44 seconds
100 meters 13.16 seconds

Olympic athletes can get up to over 25 mph. Lets say a human was sprinting at 15 mph. That is 22 feet per second. Therefore, even with the most ideal shooter under the most ideal conditions, at least 33 feet is needed for just one shot to be squeezed off and that shot may not even hit the target.
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You have skipped over some critical details. Yes, Olympic sprinters can run over 25 mph, and even faster, but they don't actually reach that speed until after about 60 meters.

Say a human can run 15 mph, or 22 fps and that a human can draw, fire, and hit a target in 1.5 seconds. Contrary to your claim, the attacker will not have to be at least 33 feet away unless you mean to imply that the attacker was already running at full speed when the CCW good guy spotted him. This is almost never the case. The attacker is usually starting from a stationary position.

The magic 1.5 draw, fire, and hit time to which you refer is usually based on shooting targets at distances at several yards and using sights. Shooting a closing target negates the need for skill as the target gets closer and closer, plus requires less movment as the gun doesn't need to be fully drawn and brought up to eye level for sighting shooting.

Also, unless trapped or otherwise back against an obstruction, most people put into a position of having to defend themselves against a charging target will start backing up and/or making a significant lateral move. These measures result in giving the intended victim extra time to respond.
 
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The point of a fast draw is not speed for its own sake. It's simply that if you do need your gun, you have no way to know in advance how much time you'll have in which to put it to use.
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A 80year old man can draw a weapon in (2) seconds. My point is that IMO, the speed factor is not likely to be a primary consideration in most gun fights. It will be in "some" cases and it has been in others... My thinking is that if I need a weapon- then i need it. I wont be considering a timed draw time vs- how fast a person can transverse 26 feet. If I am thinking about that then I am probably not in life threatening danger. If a person is inside my reactionary gap and can likely get to me before I get to my weapon, It doesnt mean that I am not going to try anyway. I practice a clean draw in every type of clothing that I wear, speed however- is not a primary consideration. Again, this is just my thought and I share them for friendly debate and not to criticize anyone.
 
DNS, your math was trucking right along until the free fall thing...

The velocity of the object (in vacuum) would be 32fps after 1 sec, but the distance traveled would be 16ft.

A = 32
V = 32 x T
D = 1/2 V x (T squared)

Generally, though, we aren't attacked by free falling objects in vacuum.

Your other points were good.

People should probably practice defensive movement at least as much as fast draw. There are many more scenarios where defensive movement might be applicable.
 
I cannot imagine a situation where I would need to draw my gun in self defense and wish that my draw was slower.
 
Under 2 seconds

I have a video of myself doing this drill. 2 shots to center mass target was about 7 yards out.

http://youtu.be/UsEtgG-Fx1A

I had a long sleeve pullover sweater on and the gun was in a kydex belt holster. I wore it the way I would have in the real world. Both shots were combat accurate, not 1" groups. Thry were slightly larger than a fist or more like a open hand. I have been shooting for just a year now. when that was taking about 10 months of pistol shooting. So I def think if your doing this drill not from concealment you can get off maybe 3 to 4 shots of.
I watch the Magpul guys do this drill and get of 4 shots in under 2 seconds with the gun covered. Thats were I want to get my skills to. Right now 2 shots in under 2 seconds with the gun concealed I will take that for now and be happy and build on it.
 
In the IPSC Black Badge Course, you will not pass unless you can draw & fire two rounds at 7 yards in 2 seconds. You must be able to do this 6 times. Seems that even unclassified below class D shooters must past more stringent firearm skills tests than you peace enforcement folks. Funny that.
 
kraigwy, I meant "funny" as in strange.

It's not to say that a all police officers aren't interested in shooting. A tiny minority of officers in our own city are engaged in the sport, and are darn good at it. But seeing many of our police officers shoot the first time as IPSC black badge hopefuls or just in range practice makes me seriously worry about the safety of innocents when these people attempt to shoot the bad guys on the street.
 
Well, how many policemen see their jobs as shooting? Keep in mind that the more who think it is, they more people here will be complaining.
 
Comparing cops to competitive shooters is like comparing me - a guy who often has to lift heavy objects at work - to a competitive strong man.
Or better yet, comparing an average Officer to a trained psychologist - as I'm pretty sure they spend more time calming people down than they do drawing their guns.
 
Let me clarify. This is a video demonstrating exactly what I consider a good draw and fire.
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It's a video that doesn't address real world drawing from concealment and hitting a target at close quarters. I try to maintain hitting the target in 1.5 seconds from the timer. It's always tempting to remove my coat, jacket, or vest and improve my time, but that doesn't serve me very well.

After a few draws, my time can be down to 1.2 or 1.3. The longest is about 2 seconds. Admittedly, I should practice more, and might get down to the 1 sec. mark, though probably not on demand.


For CCW practice, I believe one should practice draw and ready as well as draw and fire, and from ready and fire. If all we practice is draw and fire, we might be training ourselves to be robots in a SD situation where drawing is appropriate, but firing isn't.
 
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