Why do I always shoot high

I am no hot shot shooting offhand, but after figuring out that trap shooting was really screwing up my rifle shooting, I worked hard on touching off the trigger holding a rifle off hand. I recommend dry firing...a lot. (I consider admonishment about dry firing harming the firing pin as blarney.) If you have an unconcious flinch going on, it is easy to identify when dry firing, and practice dry firing is the absolute best cure I have found for wiggling when squeezing the trigger. Its free and you can do it at home.
 
Dano....you might try to video yourself at the bench...and shooting off hand....and then you might be able to see what you are doing

I was helping a guy with his rifle shooting for a while...he was flinching and raising his head from the stock....I told him he was doing that ....his responds was ...no I ain't...yes you are....so after a few days of back and forth....him in denial...

The next time he came to shoot I had the video camera set up on a tripod....he got his donkey up but finally agreed to let the camera roll

So after he got finish with the shooting we went into the house....plugged it up to the TV.....his comment was....I didn't know I was doing that......

Well DUH....I been telling you that you were doing that for 3 weeks

Just a thought....but you just might see something going on you dont think you are doing

And get a sling on that rifle and learn how to use it.....and practice...practice...practice off hand shooting.....

Getting slung up and just standing holding the rifle will build and train those muscles that you need to make a good shot off hand


Just my take and .02

Ocharry
 
When you are on the bench, your gun pushes straight back into your shoulder and your energy dissipation tends to be back not up (watch someone shoot a 50 caliber that really is an exaggerated example)

When you are standing, the recoil goes both up and back.
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Very astute observation/analysis.

To the OP. After you have shot enough from the bench to get a solid zero, then shoot enough offhand (or from the shooting position you plan to employ in the field) to get a decent idea of the center of your group. Then adjust the zero to bring the center down to your point of aim. Keep track of how much you adjusted down and you can simply adjust back up if you need to shoot prone or from the bench.
 
Food for thought: I shot major competitions in three different disciplines. Rifle was one of them, and it was off hand. I never met even one good shooter who got good by not practicing a LOT. Not even one. You can't over practice. Practice means you're out there doing all the right things in enough repetitions to ingrain the requirements into subconcious memory...called muscle memory. I shot around some really top shooters, the best in the country. Not one of them ever advised me to cut back on my practice sessions. These guys shot every day. Some of them were gold medal winners, some were Camp Perry winners, some set records that still stand. Again they didn't get there by cutting back on their practice sessions. Going out and banging off ammo isn't practice. Learn what to do and do that repeatedly until you achieve results. If you're not seeing improvement, get a coach or get some more books and read them. Now, forget all of this unless you're just wishing you were a bit better. There's no easy way to becoming a good shooter other than putting some time in doing it. Like golf, bowling, skeet, etc it requires some effort, time, money, and dedication to achieve results. You don't have to go nuts with it if you're not a competitive shooter, even moderate good practice will give you improved results. Good luck.
 
RC20 said:
When you are on the bench, your gun pushes straight back into your shoulder and your energy dissipation tends to be back not up (watch someone shoot a 50 caliber that really is an exaggerated example)

When you are standing, the recoil goes both up and back.
Click to expand...

I was under the impression that recoil only happens after the bullet has left the muzzle of the firearm.

Dano - Besides dry firing...may I recommend doing 75 reps a night by bringing the rifle up to your shoulder.

I would much rather enjoy shooting offhand with one of my 22rf or muzzleloader rifles in a long shooting session, than I would with a hard recoiling 30-06.
 
Thank you. The great thing is now I am retired and the range during the day is always wide open. Great advice. I spend way more time on the bench than shooting offhand. I am going to fix that
 
if you think you have a flinch going on,,and sometimes even if you think you are not,,,there is ,,,,take a buddy with you to the range,,,

while you are doing your off hand practice,,,,have him load 1 round at a time for you,,(have him do this so you can not see what he is doing),,and have him slip in a dummy round or snap cap,,,you hand him the rifle ,,,he loads it and hands it back to you to shoot,,,,only you dont know if it going to go off or not,,,,do the snap cap or dummy more than once,,,,just random,,,you will be amazed at what you see,,,,and the camera dont lie

if there is a flinch going on,,,,,it will stick out like a sore d,,,,,,,thumb

and keep the camera running while this is going on,,,,so you can see it happening

good sling,,, trigger control,,breathing control,,,,mind control,,,,you should still be looking through the sights after the shot breaks,,,,and it should be a little surprise when it does

when i was shooting a lot of off hand i had an old picture frame with a piece of paper in it hanging on the wall,,,the paper had a black 1" dot on it,,,i would stand at the other side of the room and just hold the rifle,,,sights on the dot,,,,every day,,,for at least 5 min.,,some days a little longer,,but everyday,,,,training my body and my mind,,,,getting into the zone,,,,nothing is going on but me and the rifle,,,,there are many rifles but this one is mine,,,kinda thing,,,,,but i digress,,,

training and practice,,,make sure you have an empty gun,,,,no ammo in the same room,,,check it often,,,,put a snap cap in and do some trigger work while you are standing there,,,dont touch the trigger until you are sure the sights are on the target,,,train like you want to shoot,,,,practice makes that happen,,,,you do need to shoot real ammo,,,,,,but not all the time,,,,you can make a lot happen just looking at a dot,,,with your rifle,,,in the zone,,,,when the shot breaks


ocharry
 
erno86 said:
I was under the impression that recoil only happens after the bullet has left the muzzle of the firearm.
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The laws of physics require that the instant the bullet starts moving, the gun also starts moving. All energy imparted to the bullet is simultaneously imparted to the gun, in the opposite direction. The only part of recoil that waits for the bullet to leave is “Gas After-effect”, or the rocket-like effect of the bullet “uncorking” the barrel and allowing extremely rapid decompression of the powder gases. This can be near 50% (or more in extreme cases) of total recoil for small, high-speed cartridges like .22-250 and similar.

That recoil starts before the bullet leaves is well demonstrated in handguns, where light, fast bullets shoot lower than slow, heavy bullets because they leave the muzzle before it can rise (as much) due to recoil.

A rifle doesn’t move much before the bullet exits, but it doesn’t take much movement to effect POI. A 0.01” change in muzzle position changes impact at 100 yards by ~1.5”.
 
After years of being a range safety officer, I have watched lots of shooters zero their rifles at a bench before hunting season starts.

I have observed that at a bench, shooters tend to lean forward and bend themselves around the rifle as they shoot.

If they were hunting, especially if they were standing, they would be upright and square to the rifle. That tends to get their eye closer to the scope or the sights.

At the bench they tend to lay back a bit.

Changing eye position closer to the sights or scope tends to move the point of impact up.

It might be as simple as that.
The suggestion to video your shooting position in both cases is a good one.
Nothing like seeing the difference in your set up before you make any changes.
 
"...on the sand bag..." Quit doing that. Your hand is not a solid rest.
"...is generally breathing..." This isn't about groups.
As to off hand shooting being high, a lot depends on how you're holding the rifle. You using a sling?
As I recall, consistently shooting high is about anticipating the recoil. You're upper body tone may not be up to holding a rifle still enough. However, if you practice on that 9" pie plate at 200 and get some upper body toning exercise, you'll get there.
"...Alaska goats..." You won't be shooting at 'em off hand. Do not take 200 yard shots at any game off-hand either.
 
Brian Pfleuger said:
The laws of physics require that the instant the bullet starts moving, the gun also starts moving. All energy imparted to the bullet is simultaneously imparted to the gun, in the opposite direction. The only part of recoil that waits for the bullet to leave is “Gas After-effect”, or the rocket-like effect of the bullet “uncorking” the barrel and allowing extremely rapid decompression of the powder gases. This can be near 50% (or more in extreme cases) of total recoil for small, high-speed cartridges like .22-250 and similar.

That recoil starts before the bullet leaves is well demonstrated in handguns, where light, fast bullets shoot lower than slow, heavy bullets because they leave the muzzle before it can rise (as much) due to recoil.

A rifle doesn’t move much before the bullet exits, but it doesn’t take much movement to effect POI. A 0.01” change in muzzle position changes impact at 100 yards by ~1.5”.
Click to expand...


Correct --- My bad...Thanks for catching that.

"Probably there's a little minute bit of human compensation going on there to compensate for that thousandths of a second, when the bullet is traveling through the barrel and the gun is moving also."

Dano - While shooting offhand...I found that if I kick my hip out and arch my back a bit my wobble gets better.

If your rifle is equipped with a sling...and you just let it hang down loosely while shooting offhand, it might impart a swing to the rifle that is detrimental to the P.O.I. --- especially in the wind. If I don't use the sling as a support...I'll just grasp it between my support hand and the forearm of the rifle.
 
Off hand standing
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Something to consider...

In standing awful hand shooting our sight tends to move in a horizontally oriented figure eight pattern. This caused by our muscles and our brain trying to keep the sight focused on our target.

Where do you begin your trigger squeeze? A common mistake is to start the trigger squeeze when our sights are on the target at the desired point of impact or the center of the eight. The correct timing is to begin the trigger squeeze at the right or left side of the figure eight so that the rifle discharges on point of aim.

Understand?
 
Finish sighting in the way you expect to be shooting when hunting .
You shoot offhand , standing..... then sight it in that way.
You hunt sitting , shooting from a blind....sight it in that way.

Also...practice shooting the way you will be hunting. Getting a gun roughly sighted in from a bench is fine...but finish sighting in and practice from the way you will hunt.
Some even shoot a little better offhand than from a bench .
Gary
 
Rimfire you nailed it my brother that is exactly what I was doing. Went to the range and much much better yay thank you. I am a happy old geezer now
 
It is a myth that a rifle is ever "zeroed." A rifle is zeroed only assuming the same set of circumstances repeats every time. Changing ANYTHING can move point of impact. Does my bag have enough baby powder on it can move poi.
 
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