Zimmermann verdict in. Case for civil suits?

pturner67 said:
1. Wouldn't a civil trial violate the 5th amendment double jeopardy clause? The double jeopardy clause prohibits anyone from being prosecuted twice for the same crime.
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Are you asking about a civil lawsuit, or are you asking about a federal criminal trial for violation of [Martin's] civil rights?

Glenn E. Meyer addressed the second. If you're asking about a civil lawsuit -- that's a civil lawsuit, not a criminal prosecution. That would be the same as the O.J. Simpson civil lawsuit for wrongful death. He lost, and was ordered to pay a bunch of money (that he allegedly didn't have), but no criminal conviction and no criminal sentence.
 
Post 54; Mylicensesite.com .....

To answer post #54, Florida does have laws that say a W license holder or armed citizen who is cleared of wrong-doing by the courts or State Atty's Office can have immunity from civil lawsuits or wrongful death claims.
Keep in mind, lawyers or estates of "victims" can still try to take civil actions against a armed citizen, even in FL. This point was made by author & legal expert in use-of-force expert: Massad Ayoob in a recent issue of Combat Handguns.

Florida's concealed carry & weapons laws/license information is here; www.Mylicensesite.com .
Mark O'Mara said in the Sat, 07/13/2013 media briefing he'd make sure George Zimmerman was cleared in those civil actions as well, IAW Florida law.

CF
 
"Can have" is not the same as "does have" immunity. I quoted the law in post #26. The law explicitly says there must be a court ruling of immunity -- it is not automatic.

Mark O'Mara did not say he would "make sure George Zimmerman was cleared in those civil actions as well." What he said was quoted in numerous articles taken directly from his comments at the press conference.

O'Mara said if anyone tries to sue Zimmerman, "we will seek and we will get civil immunity in a civil hearing. And we will see just how many civil lawsuits have spawned from this fiasco."
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The double jeopardy clause only applies to subsequent criminal prosecutions by the same sovereign. Since the state and federal governments are separate sovereigns they each get one crack at prosecuting someone based on the same set of facts.

Civil suit and civil rights prosecution are two separate things.
 
I think someone needs to launch immediate FOIA requests, the facts we have already seen retaliation against "whistle blowers" tells me this could be the duke rape case part 2.

I would also like to see if D.C. was in any way shape or form pressuring Florida to charge Zimmerman(I am sure they were).
 
A few states may tweak their "stand your ground" laws due to media pressure: Most states will not.
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Yes, but if even one does so, it could start something we don't need. In many places, the passage of SYG laws was an uphill battle. The other side claimed the streets would run with blood and that the laws were a license to kill.

They're going to work this angle to the hilt in the coming weeks and months. I could see it gaining support in some states.

The DOJ has now announced that they're looking into a possible prosecution.
 
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I would like to see Zimmerman now ask his lawyers to sue the crap out of all the news medias, pundits and talking heads, organizations, and etc., which went out of their way to demonize him in their attempt to proclaim him guilty before the trial/verdict.
 
Famas, we discussed that on the last page. It's not a very easy or feasible course of action, and even if his attorneys win, it won't cow the networks in the least.
 
Politics, fall-out....

The Florida States Atty Office IT guy was fired by Angela Corey on Fri, 07/11/2013(before the verdict was rendered).
He spoke out about the cell phone pics & other material that the prosecutors & staff wanted to keep quiet.

The IT guy & former Sanford PD chief Bill Lee really got the shaft in this case.
As for Lee's run for sheriff, I highly doubt it.
The sting from the GZ event(s) may keep him out of public service.
Seminole's Sheriff Don Eisenger is doing a good job & he gets re-elected.
FWIW; Bill Lee retired from the Seminole County Sheriff's Office so he's not in a major bind or unable to pay his bills.

As posted in other topics & messages, the State Atty; Norm Wolfinger decided not to put criminal charges on GZ.
The residents & local media should put more faith in their elected officials when there are difficult or high-profile cases.
If they(the voters or citizens) disagree with the local elected officials, vote them out. ;)

A big problem with the GZ incident was the public's rush to judge/convict GZ without due process.

Clyde F
 
Back in 1995, a football player was found not guilty of murder, but a later civil suit found him liable based on preponderance of evidence.
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No Stand Your Ground protections from civil suits, after being found innocent in a criminal trial, in California.
 
I'm not convinced that a state law SYG provision could successfully shield Zimmerman from a federal criminal suit.

Tom, the AP has taken down that page you linked about the announcement.
 
The AP appears to obfuscate links for some reason. I updated it.

I'm not convinced that a state law SYG provision could successfully shield Zimmerman from a federal criminal suit.
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I think you're right. However, I'm not sure whether he can invoke SYG at all.
 
The DOJ has announced they are considering charging Zimmerman ... and now [some of] the media are reminding us that the DOJ already did that, a month after the shooting, and found no evidence of racial bias or profiling. (Yes, the FBI is still part of the DOJ.)

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2012/07/12/155918/more-evidence-released-in-trayvon.html#.UeNK8KySi8B

After interviewing nearly three dozen people in the George Zimmerman murder case, the FBI found no evidence that racial bias was a motivating factor in the shooting of Trayvon Martin, records released Thursday show.

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Federal agents interviewed Zimmerman’s neighbors and co-workers, but none said Zimmerman had expressed racial animus at any time prior to the Feb. 26 shooting of Martin, a black teen, in a confrontation at a Sanford housing complex. As Sanford police investigated the circumstances of Martin’s death, the FBI opened a parallel probe to determine if Martin’s civil rights had been violated.

Several co-workers said they had never seen Zimmerman display any prejudice or racial bias.
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Whatever immunity from civil suites Zimmerman is able to secure, it would not apply to federal prosecution, to my understanding.

Defense attorney Mark O'Mara seemed to be almost daring anyone to file in FLA against Zimmerman. He seemed very confident that immunity could be secured. He may be in a position of some leverage with regard to possible prosecutorial misconduct.
 
I feel sure the FL law will be revisited. I have never thought that a CHL holder had the right to pursue an individual who had not committed a crime that the CHL had seen.
I am pleased that Zimmerman was found not guilty, but I think there will be changes in the law that would preclude pursuing someone when no crime or serious crime had been seen.

This case is a lesson that shows us that even if one is found not guilty one may conclude that it was not worth the trouble and expense.

Guess we'll see.
Jerry
 
One of the things I have been pondering is the verdict as explained by Omara ( I know Tom said no verdict discussion, but maybe this acceptable). Omara claims that the verdict established 2 things: 1) Zimmerman was acquitted of all criminal charges brought by the state and 2) Trayvon Martin committed aggravated assault on Zimmerman. Now , although Trayvon cant be tried and convicted because he paid the ultimate price for his criminal actions. However, being a minor I cant see how his parents aren't liable in a civil case. I don't know that Zimmerman will bring a suit, but he could certainly counter sue if not given immunity from civil action.

Another point being brought up was the homeowners Ins issue. A lot of policies will cover you off of your property. It isn't uncommon at all for HOI to cover someone who got in a fight on the golf course or at Walmart. Many A&B cases are brought on the civil side b/c HOI pays off like a slot machine in these cases.

Then there is the trust fund issue that was brought up ealier. Judges can undo all kinds of stuff in civil cases. They can determine that corporate protection is nullified as well as undoing tactics to hide or shelter funds and assets. When sued in a civil case it is not uncommon for an asset hearing to be held to determine what kind of money you have in your checking, savings,IRA, 401k or any other financial accounts. Also they plaintiff can ask about any electronics , property, furniture as well as anything else of value the judge might feel is reasonable to hand over for compensation. I sued a guy one time that didn't pay me for a job and he threatened with "his .45". I listed "his .45" on the asset summons in case I wanted it. Turned out to be a Hipoint so he got to keep it.

When assets are subpoenaed and are hidden or some type of deception is involved then the defendant can be found in contempt. I saw a judge in small claims put a 76 yr old man in jail for the weekend for not complying with the asset hearing .

The next couple of months will certainly be interesting too.
 
The Brady Campaign has (of course) jumped into the fray. They were the most vocal opponents to the trend of SYG laws that started with Florida, and this is a prime opportunity for them to take a second crack at the issue.

Add in Mayor Bloomberg's stated intent to rally support for repeal, and we've got a real problem. They're winning on the AWB/UBC thing in several states, and this could be next.
 
2 points....

If you go over the posts from a few months back, Gov Rick Scott(Florida-R), set up a special task force(led by Lt Gov Jennifer Carrol, a retired US Navy officer with a A+ rating from the NRA).
The task force findings based on several months of meetings, research, statements, open forums, etc said the Florida Stand Your Ground(gun laws) were okay & less violent crime occurred in FL after these laws were put into the books statewide.
Carrol later quit her post after a scandal not related to the Stand Your Ground task force report.

Id add that a defense atty & media advisor for Fox 35; www.myfoxorlando.com said on Sun, 07/14/2013 that she didnt think a DoJ/CRD case will go anywhere.
Her reasons were GZ & his family were under intense scrutiny by the FBI for weeks. These special agents couldn't find any solid proof of Zimmerman's racist or bigoted history. The DoJ wants to stay quiet but the reports & documents will surface at some point.

In my view AG Holder will let this run in circles then let it slip away like the Fast & Furious scandal.
 
I don't think this is what the founding fathers intended by the concept of double jeopardy. It seems that the law is just looking for different things to call the same act so they can continue to try GZ. "Hate crimes" and "civil rights" suits are used as work arounds to the Constitution.

They seem to win even if they don't "win" the cases by punishing the individual financially

Just my two cents.
 
Looking ahead, I see possibilites for the IT person to pursue wrongful termination for actually trying to follow the orders of the court that required him, (and others) to release information during discovery. I do not see him as a whistleblower! I see him as the only one trying to comply with the requirments of the court which was his job. Ditto for the previous Police chief, original prosecutor, and lead detective. Looks like they all had it right, in the begining! If I were them, I would not want my job back in that town. I predict Bankrupcy for Sanford, Florida.
 
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