I too have been guilty of this
Zero your Rifle in 8 easy steps:
- Thread starter MCARBO
- Start date
Had this with an ar recently, grab an old sign if you must. I've even lashed a rifle to a tree before then taken a shot at an embankment to see where the hell it was shooting.
Stand up and aim a hand held bore sighted rifle at some range then shoot one shot and call it. Adjust the sight to move bullet impact to call. Shoot one more shot, call it to verify; if you're not at least 90% sure that is close enough then make a tiny adjustment if needed. Easy to do with accurate rifle and ammo.
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oldmanFCSA
New member
Read every thing posted here by others - I disagree with most of it.
Pick a range to fire at, but you must be able to see where you aimed and where you hit.
I use this method to sight-in in one shot at whatever range.
Pick a range, I use 1000 yards.
Aim carefully at center of target, use sandbags or rest for stability.
Fire 1 round, watch for impact point if off target.
Re-aim carefully at center of target. Secure rifle with sandbags.
Adjust scope, WITHOUT MOVING rifle, to point-of-impact.
You are sighted-in at that particular range, with that particular cartridge.
Almost too easy to accept - but it works.
Pick a range to fire at, but you must be able to see where you aimed and where you hit.
I use this method to sight-in in one shot at whatever range.
Pick a range, I use 1000 yards.
Aim carefully at center of target, use sandbags or rest for stability.
Fire 1 round, watch for impact point if off target.
Re-aim carefully at center of target. Secure rifle with sandbags.
Adjust scope, WITHOUT MOVING rifle, to point-of-impact.
You are sighted-in at that particular range, with that particular cartridge.
Almost too easy to accept - but it works.
Fantastic, simply fantastic. About the time I believe progress is being made someone comes along and starts making this stuff up again. there is an illusion, there are a few that believe the bullets leaves the barrel the instant the trigger is pulled. pulling the trigger changes the point of impact, recoil changes the point of impact, etc. etc.. Then there are milliseconds and lock time, there is supported and hand held, and there are the anticipated aimers. Then there are slings. Use the sling to put the stock into a bind then start guessing the amount of effect the sling has on the point of impact. Real scientific? Determine the point of impact then off set the point of aim, 2 inches high and 4 inches to the left?
F. Guffey
How much different are the two zeroes going to be be, Bart B.? Are you talking a change measured in inches, or tenths of an inch? If it's the latter, I doubt that even 1% here can hold to that, offhand. If it's the former, then something is wrong with the rifle, if it's POI is shifting that much depending upon how it's held .....
As for "calling your shot" ..... sounds like "calling your misses" to me....... If one can really hold to tenths of an inch, offhand, to such a degree of surety that one shot would be enough to warrant moving the crosshairs, how 'bout just hitting the X in the first place?
I have come to the conclusion that "significant" has different meanings to different people. While every word Bart put forth may in fact be technically true, pure and good and right, it does not have a whole lot of practical use for me, and if followed by many less experienced/talented shooters, would be excercises in futility. Zeroing a rifle offhand would be exactly one such case.
The reason that hand held rifles in different positions shooting them have different zeros is because the rifle bore axis moves differently while the bullet's going down the barrel for each one. This is why no two people seldom have the same sight settings on a given rifle using a given load; no, it's not how they see through the sights, everyone does that the same.
Hand held rifles pushed into a right handed shooter's shoulder as they set at a bench with it resting atop something will print shots about 1 MOA or more to the right of a zero attained in a normal field position such as standing, kneeling, sitting or prone
Using a single shot hole to adjust a scope to with a fixed rifle only works good when the rifle shoots the ammo into 1/8th or more inches. If it shoots 1 MOA, shooting one hole to zero with means the error may well be 3/4 MOA or more.
Regarding the method of calling shots then adjusting the sights to move bullet impact to the called shot... If you call a shot straight out to the right 2 inches from target/bullseye center, then adjust the sight to that point, what difference does that make? Isn't the point of getting a zero to get the rifle to shoot bullets where it's aimed regardless of how the rifle's held?
Hand held rifles pushed into a right handed shooter's shoulder as they set at a bench with it resting atop something will print shots about 1 MOA or more to the right of a zero attained in a normal field position such as standing, kneeling, sitting or prone
Using a single shot hole to adjust a scope to with a fixed rifle only works good when the rifle shoots the ammo into 1/8th or more inches. If it shoots 1 MOA, shooting one hole to zero with means the error may well be 3/4 MOA or more.
Regarding the method of calling shots then adjusting the sights to move bullet impact to the called shot... If you call a shot straight out to the right 2 inches from target/bullseye center, then adjust the sight to that point, what difference does that make? Isn't the point of getting a zero to get the rifle to shoot bullets where it's aimed regardless of how the rifle's held?
oldmanFCSA
New member
Why make it so difficult to understand when most shooters can't shoot accurately enough off-hand to tell the difference ? Sight-in on the bench, practice shooting off-hand.
One doesn't have to put all offhand shots in the ten ring. It's very important to have shots strike the point of aim (where the sights are when it fires); even if it's at a far corner of the target. The objective is to get shots clustered about where the sight's at on the target regardless of how big the cluster (troop) is.
Is that too hard to understand? If the sight is aligned 3 inches to the right and 3 inches below target center when it fires, don't you want the bullet to strike there?
If your rifle doesn't put bullets where the sights are when it goes bang, one will never develop then master marksmanship skills.
Is that too hard to understand? If the sight is aligned 3 inches to the right and 3 inches below target center when it fires, don't you want the bullet to strike there?
If your rifle doesn't put bullets where the sights are when it goes bang, one will never develop then master marksmanship skills.
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Post weather you agree or disagree with this.
JimBob86 said this and I couldn't agree more:
JimBob86 said this and I couldn't agree more:
I had to laugh a little at the last part of JimBob's quote, which is great by the way because it highlights one of the most difficult factors to manage in shooting....the shooter. Most rifles are designed to out shoot the most experienced shooters abilities; its when we get behind the rifle and do something to cause each round to behave differently, otherwise anybody could pick up a rifle and zero with one offhand shot. When did zeroing your rifle become a competition anyway...After reading through this post I think its safe to say that most of us may agree on the following two things. (#1) Can we all agree that to zero a rifle properly you need a good solid, steady, supported stable shooting position to maintain the same point of aim for each shot. Otherwise your not zeroing anything, your just "calling shots" which sounds a lot like "calling misses".(Thanks JimBob) (#2) Can we all agree that you need at the very minimum TWO shots to zero a rifle. Otherwise, how would you be able to say with full confidence that your rifle has a confirmed zero. You can't say you confirmed anything with one shot. You moved your cross hairs and still have no idea what will happen until you take that next shot and confirm your zero. I appreciate all of the knowledge and input on here....Post weather you agree or disagree with this.
I don't agree.
Calling shots means where the sight line was on target when the round fired regardless its position relative to target center. A good zero's attained when shots strike point of aim where the line of sight is on the target; wherever it is.
If you want your zero attained from a bench to be good afield, you have to take that bench afield with you then use it shooting at game.
I agree if your rifle and ammo shoots 1/4 MOA at shorter ranges. And the shot group's center will move 12/19ths MOA if you move the sight that far. If you don't trust your sight to do that, get rid of it and get a better one. If your stuff's less accurate, it'll take more shots. As long as shots strike not much more more than half it grouping size from where you call the shot, that's fine. Every rifle shoots most accurate when it's not hand held by a human, but instead in a free recoiling accuracy cradle. Us humans add a variable to its accuracy level; more with less stable positions.
As I've said before, the difference between bench zeros and unsupported zeros is about 1 MOA or a bit more. Mine's about 1.3 MOA to the right from a bench. If one's never got one of each, I don't think they'll ever understand the fact that they're different.
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