Zero Tolerance the Nazi Mentality

snippy--

"In one incident last week at Telfair Elementary School, the “weapon” turned out to be no weapon at all. Instead, nine-year-old Vincent Olivarez was nearly suspended from the Pacoima, CA school because he was found in possession of snapshots taken while he and his brother fired guns at a shooting range, under the supervision of their aunt, a certified police weapons instructor."

--snippy--

"Although Vincent is just nine years old, Bodnar said that the youngster had already developed a negative image of guns. Bodnar suggests the public schools are to blame: “When we were at the shooting range, Vincent said to me, ‘guns are bad.’ And I said, ‘who’s teaching you this garbage?’ He’s in LA County. I’ll tell you who’s teaching him this garbage.’”
 
Just in case the article or pictures don’t last forever, here’s the whole thing. Thanks for bringing this up, walang...



shooting2.jpg
shooting1.jpg

The offending photos: Vincent Olivarez and his brother at the shooting range.


Public Schools Are "Clueless" About Guns
By Scott Rubush

FrontPageMagazine.com | December 7, 2000

SCHOOL STUDENTS in California’s San Fernando Valley may be the targets of ridicule in Alicia Silverstone films, but it’s the Valley’s school administrators who have shown themselves to be really "clueless."

Especially when it comes to handling "weapons incidents."

In one incident last week at Telfair Elementary School, the "weapon" turned out to be no weapon at all. Instead, nine-year-old Vincent Olivarez was nearly suspended from the Pacoima, CA school because he was found in possession of snapshots taken while he and his brother fired guns at a shooting range, under the supervision of their aunt, a certified police weapons instructor.

According to the boy’s family, administrators told Vincent that the pictures were "inappropriate."

The family says that a substitute teacher saw the pictures lying in young Vincent’s bookbag and confiscated them.

Later, when Vincent returned from lunch, he was summoned to the Principal’s office, where a school nurse interrogated him about the pictures.

According to the Olivarez family, the Principal’s secretary then called Vincent’s mother, Anita, and told her that her son had "extremely disturbing and offensive photographs." The secretary refused, however, to divulge what sort of pictures they were.

She simply told Anita to show up at the school at 2:30 pm for a meeting. The boy’s mother said she could come at 5 pm. At that, the Principal’s secretary threatened that she was going to call the police to question the boy about the photographs, and that he would face suspension.

Angrily, Anita Olivarez said she was coming immediately to pick up her son and that no one was to speak with him.

Officials of the Los Angeles Unified School District (LAUSD) later overruled the school, and decided not to suspend Vincent. The pictures have now been mailed back to Vincent’s home.

Still, for Vincent and his family, the situation is hardly resolved. The fourth-grader remains frightened by the way school officials behave towards him, and his family now is weighing the feasibility of transferring him to another school. "He was distraught by the whole thing. He doesn’t feel safe there," a relative told FrontPageMagazine.com on Wednesday.

LAUSD describes its policy as one of "no tolerance" for weapons possession. Officials refused to comment on whether Vincent’s pictures violated that policy.

The "zero tolerance" approach has swept the nation, in response to America’s increasingly lawless public schools. But the incident at Telfair is just the latest in a series of incidents that have left many parents wondering if "zero tolerance" goes too far.

In March, four New Jersey kindergarten students were suspended for playing cops-and-robbers.

In September, a third-grader was suspended from a Green Bay, WI school for possessing a key chain with a small replica of a gun.

Weeks later, an 11-year-old girl was suspended from a school in the Atlanta suburbs when administrators ruled that a chain attached to a wallet depicting the Tweety Bird cartoon character was too long, and might possibly be used as a weapon.

In October, another San Fernando Valley pupil was suspended when he brought an "illegal and dangerous explosive device" - a firecracker - to school.

Anti-weapons Puritanism has come under fire from all quarters. Conservatives have criticized the approach as a "gun-grab." Some leftists have asserted that the policies unfairly target minority students.

For their part, administrators stonewalled over the Olivarez incident, but remained defensive of their no-tolerance policy. The principal at Telfair Elementary declined an interview with FrontPageMagazine.com, and LAUSD officials refused to speak about this specific case or whether the incident would appear in Vincent’s permanent record.

But Jim Gamboa, an LAUSD spokesman said of zero-tolerance policies in general that "when it comes to safety, it’s hard to overreact."

Vincent’s family contends that, in this case, the school clearly did overstep its bounds.

Relatives say that the affair has been a crushing blow to the self-esteem that Vincent developed at the shooting range. According to the aunt who supervised the shoot, Reynalda Bodnar, Vincent had never fired a weapon prior to the recent outing. "He’s very shy, very passive," said Bodnar. "He finally got comfortable to the point where he would even hold a gun, and now this happens."

Bodnar, who works as a law enforcement official just east of Los Angeles, said that safety concerns motivated her to teach Vincent how to handle guns. "It prevents accidents from happening," Bodnar said of firearms instruction. "It’s a curiosity-killed-the-cat situation. If kids don’t understand how to handle a firearm, there can be deadly consequences if they find one."

Although Vincent is just nine years old, Bodnar said that the youngster had already developed a negative image of guns. Bodnar suggests the public schools are to blame: "When we were at the shooting range, Vincent said to me, ‘guns are bad.’ And I said, ‘who’s teaching you this garbage?’ He’s in LA County. I’ll tell you who’s teaching him this garbage.’"

Scott Rubush is the assistant editor of FrontPageMagazine.com.
Readers may send him e-mail at scott@cspc.org
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Other than the fact that neither of these kids are wearing safety glasses, I don't see anything wrong with these pictures.

These kids are learning about responsibility from a responsible adult. No wonder the school system is concerned. :(
 
Where is this zero tolerance going to end? How about here?

------------------------------------------------------------

LOS ANGELES, CA -- MNN (Mike News Network), December 7, 2000.

Thousands of students suspended in Los Angeles

Officials in the nation's largest school district confirmed today that nearly every district student was suspended yesterday pending expulsion hearings.

District Superintendent Butner Fluck said that the suspensions were the result of the district's "Zero Tolerance on Weapons" policy.

"Virtually every student was in possession of a potentially deadly stabbing weapon," Fluck said. "Some of them were even in possession of concealable "switchblade" type weapons that appear to be harmless, but which in fact could cause grievous injury to other students."

Fluck refused to identify the weapons in question, but an unnamed source close to the district's suspensions said that the deadly weapons in question were pencils made by the Eberhard-Faber company, and retractable ball-point pens made by Bic and Papermate.

"These death merchants have been arming our children for far too long," the source said. "The district fully expects, once our investigation is concluded, to file lawsuits against these companies for their irresponsible marketing of deadly weapons to children."

Later, when Fluck was again asked about the pens and pencils, he declined to answer. But when this reporter pointed out that the school district itself traffics in these weapons, handing them out freely to students several times a year and also selling them for a profit in school stores, Fluck retorted "This isn't about the school district! This is about the safety of the children, our future!"

Attempts to reach Fluck today were unsuccessful.

"He's gone to Hawaii for a few days to recover from this horrible situation," said a district secretary.
 
Holy Mary, Mother of God.

What would the school district have done if those kids had been in possession of a Guns and Ammo or Shooting Times magazine? Executed both of them?

At that, the Principal’s secretary threatened that she was going to call the police to question the boy about the photographs, and that he would face suspension.
Click to expand...

A nine-year-old? Questioning a 9 year old?? I don't know about California, but in Texas cops don't ask a nine-year-old the time of day without his parents being present.

"extremely disturbing and offensive photographs."
Click to expand...

What, the size of that kids smile offended someone? Tough cookies, get over it.

The fourth-grader remains frightened by the way school officials behave towards him, and his family now is weighing the feasibility of transferring him to another school.
Click to expand...

That sounds like a fine idea to me. I suggest one about 900 miles east, matter-of-fact, I suggest the entire family move to Texas.

:mad::mad:
LawDog
 
Okay, okay, okay (hey, I like the phrase).. Zero weapons policies... of which have included fingernail clippers... how many here have been or taken Biology?

My Biology class:

We got this jug of dead things in smelly sauce. We were then issued pans with rubber things in them. After that, we were given.... UGH... WEAPONS! A hand full of needle things and a scapule (a knife that's VERY sharp).

We then inflicked "violence" on the dead smelly things. Cut em right open and had to know what organs were what. (On a side note, no one bet me to eat one). We sliced, and we diced and we still got a C+ (would have been a B but because of those danged earthworms).

We cut up (with a WEAPON *gasp*) a frog, an earthworm, a starfish (the myth of them regrowing their arms is overrated :D), and a little piglet. I think there was other stuff but I don't remember them, hey, it's been over 14 years!

How many knives do you think are in a school on a daily basis? The janitors use edge *weapons* to scape gum off the walls, and many have pocket knives to open cartons and then break them down. How many pocket knives are in the hands of teachers, students, and the construction workers building that new wing? My math teacher, who I still respect, admire, and hold on a pedestol, had one big honking knife that he pulled out in math class to sharpen his pencil (?another weapon?), cut his apple (he supplied his own, didn't trust us :D), and to clean his fingernails during tests. This man was 100000000000000 years old (in our eyes but he was only around 50 or so), was an ex-naval officer, and knew his sh*t when it came to math (and computers at that time). His name was clarence(sp)(sorry about that Sir) Williams.

Zero Tolerance = Zero Thinking. What idiots.

USP45usp
 
My only issue with the article is lumping in the suspension of the kid for bringing a firecracker to school.

Please tell me what class he needs a firecracker in.

There is no need for it, no productive use while at school. Firecrackers should be used under supervision. The only things that come with children w/ firecrackers at school are damaged toilets... or burned children.

I can understand jewelry.... but firecrackers... no way.
My momma would have whipped my butt for it 15 years ago.
 
dameon;
You just showed a generation gap.When I was young we played with firecrackers all the time for the 4th of July.It was tradition.To top it all off the firecrackers where a lot mor epowerful then.No one died,lost fingers or any other drastic things.Yes there where accidents and people did get hurt but that is the premise that the anti's use to push there antigun agenda.If it just saves one childs life.We are trying to evolve a society that is perfectly safe and it can't be done without looseing all freedoms and the ability to think.To mature I think human being need to take some chances.It matures them.IT is breed into people or we would have never come to the new world or went west.We are fast loosing our sense of adventure and becomeing a nation of sheeple.
IMO
 
I'm not saying you can't play with them or that they should be banned. But children are at school to learn. There is no reason to have a firecracker, ad deck of cards, or a GameBoy. Both serve as a distraction and have no business at school... just that the firecracker has the added strong ability to hurt or maim another child.

Period.

If you want to experiment with explosives in science class, fine. But they need to be controlled by the teacher, with no explosive material leaving the room. There is no reason for it to leave the class EXCEPT to get in trouble.
 
I've been teaching for ten years now. The only real weapons related problem I ever had was in Turkey, when a couple of the "big boys" came to school, one with a pair of nunchakus and the other with a great big dive knife. I stuck these weapons into my pants, and hauled them both to the principal's office by their ears. Yes, they were bigger than me, yes, they were howling, and yes, the school expressed its deepest gratitude.

Had I done that in California, does anyone think I would have kept my job? I'd probably get locked up.

As a junior high school teacher now in Japan, all I can say is that them folks is NUTS!.

And Dameon, you are one hundred percent correct.
 
I agree that a firecracker has no place in school….. my problem is with the punishment…. A nice call to the parents is what is called for…. Not suspension. Hell if I had been suspended every time I did something like that in school, I’d still be there trying to get past 3rd grade.
 
No cards? YEECH! You probably woulda taken away my chess set too! No matter - nobody would play me by the time I was a sophomore...

What were we supposed to be doing? Eating lunch?
 
Hello, my name is Sodbuster, and I am a death merchant. I have been known to carry a knife into elementary schools. Last spring, I was volunteering some time to do a project that was beyond the school's maintenance crew. The school secretary said she had an instructional video on the project if I wanted to watch it. Then she asked: "Do you have a knife?" Without hesitation or worry, I said yes. She said good, I might need it to cut the cellophane on the video. Then we turned our discussion to other matters. What a great place to live. I love Wyoming, it's completely devoid of ignorant, pompous cityslickers. And nazism.
 
Actually, I think we should increase the awareness of school children about weapons. We should increase their level of understanding about weapons and their effect on the human body. We should get into wound ballistics, terminal effects, psycological effects of combat, desentisisation to killing, psycological/behaviorial coping mechanisms to killing, we should show more graphicly violent movies, produce more violent video games and all around demonstrate to our children every aspect of killing while giving them the sense that it all doesn't mean much. We should raise all this to effect a hightened sanse of awareness of the power of weapons and thus provide suggestion to how our children can use weapons to affect their aims/goals. We should send Eddy Eagle into our schools to highten the awareness of our children to weapons, guns, etc. We should bring all this to the forefront of their minds. We will thus reap what we sow....more Columbines........

Who agree's with me?
 
I've already replied once but Yeesh

Some of the newcomers to the board are living proof of what we "old" folks (and a heck of allot "older" folks) have been preaching as to what will happen to the future generations.

I bet Munro (who's been around for awhile) and Dameon would be really shocked, and sickened by my school days.. and this is just 14 to 16 years ago:

We used to play "strench" and "mumlypeg" during our break time.. you know what we used... KNIVES (shudder, squeak and squeal).

We used to use KNIVES to open up cartons for our science teacher when new "toys" came in.

We used to have a 4th of July parade on our football field... complete with, GASP, fire crackers... that is, the ones we didn't use to kill the ants with during the normal school year.

The only thing we didn't have was a gun squad... I envy the older folks that.

But we did have clubs and balls for golf.. now tell me that a little golf ball can't kill you as fast as a .22 or pellet gun!

These new folks.. and some of the older ones that are "coming" out of the woodwork make for interesting reading, thought. I thought I was young, but from reading, I am ancient in their eyes.

USP45usp

*But I could still carry a knife and a fire cracker to school.. NAHNAHNAHNAH :D
 
This is getting weird. USSR had smallbore rifle shooting in some gym classes till the late 70s, apparently. As a kid there, I certainly had a knife and, while I generally only played with it, I do not recall adults worried about kids using tools like that.

I hope US is more sensible on this topic, not less. Seems that the best way out of the mess is to starve the enemy and that goes off into the real of depriving them of tax revenues...or at least picking relatively sane locales.
 
FOLKS BE NUTS THESE DAYS!!

Oleg, USP45usp,

People are gettting nuttier and nuttier. I got my first rifle when I was six years old, and carried a sheath knife on my belt when I was five. That was back when things were sane. There were no shocked, horrified looks.

These days people are getting progressively crazier. Look at how many folks voted for Gore, and he's as nutty as my Sainted Mother's Christmas fruitcakes.

Yep, waaaaay back in 19 and 69, before a lot of y'all younguns' time, the US of A had a psychotic episode, called "Woodstock," from which it hasn't recovered yet. Them kids carryin' on like a bunch of tribal savages in "Lord of the Flies" had a bunch of kids, and then they went and had a bunch of kids, and they be shootin' and cuttin' each other to pieces these days.

Insanity is obviously hereditary.
 
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