Your top DEFENSE shotgun: Rem 870, Rem 11/87, Win 1300Defender, Benelli M1???

POLL: Vote for the best 18" 12 ga. Defense Shotgun

  • Remington 870 Police

    Votes: 57 37.3%

  • Winchester 1300 Defender

    Votes: 19 12.4%

  • Remington 11/87

    Votes: 10 6.5%

  • Benelli M1 Tactical

    Votes: 29 19.0%

  • Beretta

    Votes: 4 2.6%

  • Mossberg

    Votes: 34 22.2%
  • Total voters
    153
A long time ago I confronted a young man in my yard...(mid-night/flashlight, checking out the cars). I had an O/U 12 ga. He decided to leave, but a shot through the tree limbs convinced him to wait for the police. The sound was still ringing in my ears...but I couldn't remember which trigger for the follow up...if needed.

I said all that to say thats why I now have a Win. 1300 Defender. One trigger,smooth action,eight shots. I can pay attention to the action at hand...maybe I won't get shot.
Mark.
 
The tactical shotgun matches are interesting.

I've shot in several matches at a nearby club. The contestants run the gamut from guys bringing out the old trap or bird gun to cops with their issue riot gun to hobbyists with full house super-tactical outfits.

For those who can afford them and will learn the manual of arms, the Benellis are superb! A little fussy maybe, but they work like lightning. But - - - Don't sell short the old upland gunner or waterfowler who's been operating the same ol' pump gun for decades. A man who learned to shuck his slick old Model 12 in the quail fields may be a serious contender on steel plates as well.

Spending the money on a tactical Mossberg with all the hang-on accessories, or even a Benelli doesn't guarantee proficiency. Certainly not unless the spender also burns a few cases of shells in practice. Some good coaching by a competent trainer doesn't hurt, either.

As a Remington shotgun lover, it pains me to say it, but I've seen some 11-87s tried and found wanting. At least a couple have been sluffed in favor of older 1100s. Every so often, someone brings out an old long recoil gun--Browning A-5, Rem 11, or even an 11-48--and shows the youngsters how it's done. I guess they never heard how hard they kick.

One thing surprising to me, though--I've never seen an Ithaca model 37 in competetion. This, in light of how popular they were as police riot guns some years ago back. Back when Los Angeles PD was the "wave of the future," seemed like every young cop wanted a short '37. Then they all went away, in favor of the 870.

Just some observations - - -:p

Johnny
 
I'd add one word of caution... I love autoloading shotguns for their speed, and use them for hunting and target work, but I am very reluctant to trust them for defense. I've seen too many of them malfunction in a rapid-fire, high-stress situation. One example: I did LFI-2 and LFI-3 with Massad Ayoob during August this year. On both courses, EVERY SINGLE SEMI-AUTO SHOTGUN (including Remingtons, Benellis, Mossbergs and a Saiga AK-style magazine-fed semi-auto) malfunctioned at least once during a high-speed qualification run, sufficient to drop the student using it out of the running for high score, and sometimes enough to make him/her abort the course of fire.

This is only the latest in a long line of experiences like this. So, if my life depends on the gun, it's gonna be a pump! Unless you do something silly like short-stroking it, it will probably work every time, and can also handle a wide variety of loads without worrying about reliability of cycling the action. Yep, it's a pump for me!
 
Sounds like a safe call, Preacherman. I'm sure there are lots of semi-autos out there that perform very well, but if there is even a slighty greater chance of a feeding problem with a semi-auto over a pump, I'll take the pump for defense as well.
 
Thanks, Don, it's nice to know I'm helping folks.

The pump vs auto thing has been going on almost as long as the strife in Ireland.

Both camps have good arguments,but it all boils down to reliability. If it only works great sometimes, it's not a a good choice.

Back in the day, I used to watch the guys with the 1100s do clearance and profanity drills. We called the autos "Aw S--t" guns because the owners always said it in the course of a match.Got to admit the glitches diminished as the owners learned to clean and care for their persnickity pets, but the glitches still happened.

Meanwhile, my 870s worked flawlessly. To this day, I've never short stroked one. I've never had a shell come back behind the carrier unless I deliberately induced same. My lifetime aggregate of shells fired through 870s must come close to 50K now, and the number of $%^&*ups must run less than 5.

When it comes to my butt on the line, or my family's safety, I want a tool reliable as a rock.
 
That weapon is not an option in quite a number of states because it qualifies as an illegal "sawed-off" shotgun. I've also seen the little double-barrel "snake eyes" .410 pistol. I'll stick with 12 gauge pump, thanks.

I don't particularly like the emotionalist-sensationalist marketing ploy of the company selling that pistol, either. "Be responsible! Don't kill your neighbor!" Yeah, but get rubbed out by some tweeker or dusthead you only pissed off with a thimblefull of birdshot.
 
:)

I know that if I have an intruder in my home, he will fall on the first shot of 00 Buckshot. If not, then the second shot, a .45LC should do the trick. After that there's a .410 slug, another .45LC, and a #2 shotshell.

I paid $275 used and absolutely love it for home defense.

:)
 
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Well, I got in on this poll late, so I had to vote for the only firearm I own... my Mossberg 500 12 ga. (I know, a one-gun wimp...)

Although, as I mentioned on another thread, I had the opportunity to use a Vang Comp'd 870 for the first time during the final COF in a two day tac shotgun course and shot very well with it with because it felt so natural.

Many replies above this one, Dave McC said
Work it to and fro a hundred times,
Click to expand...
to get the Mossy tang-mounted safety to loosen up a bit... The issue is that unlike the nice, but not ambidextrous, 870 button safety, the Mossberg safety feels like a small, rough-backed alligator under your thumb. I probably cycled the safety 200 times this weekend and I think it is as smooth (even some extra lube) as it is going to get, but my thumb is a bit raw, nevertheless. My two-cycle experience with the 870 safety makes me think it is way easier unless you are a leftie.
 
Bruce... you too have an ultra stiff Mossberg tang safety switch? I think mine is loosening up a LITTLE bit... but man, this switch is very difficult to move most of the time... funny, because every once in a while it moves more easily. Hmmmmmmmmmmm...... will replacing the thumb piece make the switch any easier? The screw holding in the plastic piece is designed to only screw ON, a screwdriver trying to UNscrew it has no grip at all... what's with THAT? :rolleyes:
 
Sorry about your thumb, Bruce, but I deny responsibility(G).

If I owned a 500 these days, I'd put on a metal safety button mach schnell, just because there's too much testimonial evidence about the plastic ones falling off, or otherwise glitching.

Note this doesn't happen with ALL 500s.

Also note I'm not Mossiebashing. They're good shotguns.

As for the 870, when I shoot sinistrally I rotate my firing hand as I mount the weapon and knock the safety off with my thumb, re-employing with my index finger. This is the mirror image of how I do it dextrally.
 
Combat Shotgun

None of the above. There is a very good article that was in the IPSC magazine about combat competition shotguns. It is available on the Winchester website.
If I had to pick a new shotgun, I would strongly consider the new Winchester Super X2 Practical.
I still like my Remington Model 11. It has MMC aperature sights, and removable choke tubes as well as an extended mag tube. Shoots foster slugs into 2.5" at 50 yds. and seems to be extremely reliable, more than the current 11/87.
 
Tom, the Model 11 is one great shotgun. The downside's the advanced age and high mileage of many specimens.

The X2 is possibly the milepost for the next era of fighting shotguns. I expect developments in this area to be very interesting. Here's a few predictions....

First, the new "Serious" shotguns will be gas autos. Instead of adapting existing sporting arms, these will be purpose built fighters. Some may be built on the Kalishnikov gas sustem, like that Saiga. Others may use any number of designs that are already used in rifles and adaptable to the lower pressures and higher momentums of shotgun ballistics.

Second, modular trigger systems will be nigh universal. Why so? Because most of the parts that can and do break are in these. Field repair will consist of popping a new TG in and sending the old one back to the armorer.

Third, stocks will have some range of adjustment, maybe like the CAR-15 collapsable stock with intermediate positions. Some will also have some recoil reducing capability, like the Hogue, Precision Fit, etc. A rotatable pad will make the weapon suitable for use off either shoulder while still fitting the "Cup".

Fourth, sights will be some sort of red dot, holo,and so on.Probably the weapon will have an old fashioned bead for backup.

Fifth, an Uzi style grip safety will be used as a combat safety.Or possibly a squeeze cocker. Idea, to make the weapon safe but only an instant away from employment. A storage safety will be there for backup.

Sixth,forearms will have mounting points/rails for lights,NVDs,grenade launchers, scopes and so forth.

Seventh,a workable speed loader for faster reloads will be produced. It'll probably look something like the old Blakeslee thing for the Spencer carbine, ca 1860.

Eigthth, it'll probably be a 12 gauge. All that ammo choice off the shelf would make logistics so easy compared to R&D'ing a new, dedicated shell. However, research will produce new powders that will burn more completely in the bbl, thus reducing muzzle flash. And the velocity may be uppped a bit also, with new designs the old SAAMI limit of 13K PSI can be exceeded. How about 00 at 1800 FPS, with depleted uranium pellets?

Any ideas?....
 
870 all the way

... though I was at a gunshow a few weeks back and saw a BRAND NEW 11-87 in "tactical black" with the mag extension AND rifle sights for less than $300, I ALMOST bought it.

Thing is, I kinda like the look and feel of wood, and my "Sportsman 12 magnum" (pre-express budget model 870) is an awfully good shotgun, so I don't NEED to replace it. In fact, I'm thinking if I buy another shotgun its gonna be a double.

Still I kinda hope I don't see that 11-87 again when I have a pocket full of money.:D

And HEY... you forgot the Winchester 1897 Trench gun. If you missed him with 6 rounds of buckshot you could always bayonet the evildoer!:eek:
 
Dave
Fortunately, my Model 11 spent most of its life sitting around. Doesn't seem to have much wear. Did have to replace the barrel due to bulges in it.
Sounds like what you are describing is the new Benelli M4 which the Marine Corps recently adopted. It is a gas gun with MECGAR ghost ring sight, skeleton stock with what looks like a Picitany rail mounted on the receiver in front of the rear sight. There is a picture in the Dec. Guns on pg. 35.
 
Saw a blurb on American Shooter about the M4, Tom. It's a step in the right direction, but it's still an adapted civilian arm.

With the trend towards Urban warfare seen in recent times, a truly advanced combat shotgun's making sense.

Meanwhile, I'll stick with 870s.
 
The M4 is being issued in the Marine Corps. It is supposed to show up commercially this month, which probably means early next year. The services have first claim to them. I would like to see a good comparison article with the M-4, Winchester SX-2 Practical, Remington 11/87, 870 et.al. and see if any of them are as good as my Model 11.
 
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