Your Thoughts on the 9mm for Defense?

Yep, just like riddleofsteel said, load selection is key. The CorBon 115 grain load I use is plenty potent. If you're not comfortable unless you have something "bigger", go ahead and choose whatever. If you're confident with your skill level, confident in your weapons, and resolute, you're already halfway there.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ctdonath:
Get something bigger...

The whole point of having a handgun is stopping power. .45 and .357Sig are just plain better at that than the 9mm. While using extra-powerful +P+ rounds can push the stopping power to decent levels for the 9mm, that means pushing the rounds to levels that the round & gun were not really designed for. [/quote]


Since the Glocks and Sig's were European in origin, the problems with +P's shouldn't be a concern. The European 9mm is a higher pressure round anyway, comparable to American origin +P's. Therefore, the design issues aren't a problem, at least with European handguns.
 
From 1988 until late 1997, I carried a Beretta 92FS, with both Fed. JHP 115gr, and Win. Black Talons. They'll do the job if you do your's.

Now that I live in Idaho, I carry my old favorite: a Colt's Lightweight Commander in .45ACP. If I do my job, it'll also do its.

Accuracy is 95% of a gun fight, but I still favor the larger holes. JMHO.

J.B.
 
IMHO, the 9mm w/ top premium jhp ammo is more than adequate for self defense. I also think that next to the 357 sig it is the most efficient cartridge when fired from short bbl pistols that retard expansion & increase penetration.

I agree the 9mm is more load dependent than the larger calibers. However, the larger calibers seem more dependent on bbl. length.
The .45 is at it's best out of a 5in bbl, in sub 5in bbl's it seems to lose much of it's pwr. & expansion qualities.

Mike Boyle & Shawn Dodson have also conducted tests w/ various .40 loads that shows a similar trend. When fired from pistols such as a G27 or Kahr K40/MK40, many premium loads(esp. in the heavier weights) failed to expand through cloth, one of the exceptions in the heavier loads noted by both, is the the 165 gr Rem. GS. As many are concerned w/ concealed carry these days & going to smaller sub-compacts, this is something to consider.

Reliability & proficiency w/ my pistols are my top two concerns. I own pistols in 9/40/45, & while I shoot all well, I shoot the 9's best. For me, this translates into more confidence if having to use a weapon in a high stress situation.

Furthermore, on average, larger calibers produce more recoil & blast, & if one's not willing to put in the extra time at the range w/ these cal., I personally think the 9mm would be a better choice.

As many have said shot placement is key, a larger caliber will do you no good if you can't hit what your shooting at!

Best,
long shot!
 
Hello, all. Actually, the 9mm was adopted and used by the German military well before WWII. I could be off a little, but I believe that it was "born" of the 7.65mm Luger in 1902. Best.
 
Actually the 9mm was around long before the Nazi movement was even founded. To label a caliber with political connotation is to fault inert things, something the anti crowd loves to do.

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"Get yourself a Lorcin and lose that nickel plated sissy pistol."
 
The .45 is "pre expanded", amprecon? The turn-of-the-century 9mm is a "nazi" caliber??
I suggest you brush up on terminal ballistics a bit, sir. And, I have a terrible shock for you: Are you familiar with the Model 1914 of Norway? This is a Government Model copy in the "All American" .45 ACP. Hang onto your shorts, sir....the Model 1914 was used by Nazis, meaning the .45 was also used by Nazis!! (GASP) :rolleyes:
 
Yeek. I try to stay out of the caliber wars for the most part, but just this once...

My philosophy, and mine only: All handgun calibers suck. If you put a BG down with a handgun, it's 90% luck, regardless of caliber, bullet type, or whatever. So a high-cap 9mm pistol gives me that many more chances to get lucky.

Thus, I'll take fifteen rounds of 9x19 over eight rounds of .45ACP. Other people would rather have the .45. That's fine, too.

Worry about getting the hits, every single time. If you can't do that, caliber is moot. As is everything else.

Later,
Chris


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"TV what do I see, tell me who to believe, what's the use of autonomy when a button does it all??" - Incubus, Idiot Box
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by amprecon:
Why the 9mm when there is the all-american .45? 9mm is a nazi caliber, to hell with it. Nazis used it to poke holes in the back of jews heads at point blank range. Americans used the .45 to blow holes in nazis at whatever range they could.
9mm is a suped up .380 and needs specially designed bullets for acceptable performance. The .45, like mentioned before, comes pre-expanded and will work with or without the special bullet design features.

[This message has been edited by amprecon (edited September 04, 2000).][/quote]

Boy, all the history I have ever read is wrong!!!! :eek:
I had NO idea that Georg Luger was an evil NAZI!!!! :eek:
I had NO idea that the 9mm Parabellum was developed in a secret NAZI lab, somewhere in Berlin, just to exterminate Jews!!! :eek: :eek:
Now I will have to destroy all my 9mm's, and turn all my ammo over to the Government, or take the risk of being branded a NAZI too!!! :rolleyes:
YEAH RIGHT!!!!!!!! ;)

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Yeah, I got a permit to carry,it's called the friggin Constitution.---Ted Nugent

"Glock 26: 17 rounds of concealed carry DEATH comming your way from out of nowhere!!! THAT'S FIREPOWER, BABY!!!"

[This message has been edited by denfoote (edited September 05, 2000).]
 
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention: Apparently the Nazis thought a lot of the Thompson submachine gun(chambered in "All American" .45 ACP, of course), and was a particular favorite of the Einsatzgruppen. You know who they were, right, amprecon? They were the slugs who executed Jews wholesale. Just a little revisionist history/food for thought, sir. We're talking about inanimate objects here. I'm sure Feinstein, Schumer, and their whole bunch just love to attach evil intent and evil characteristics to "things", also.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by parabellum:
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention: Apparently the Nazis thought a lot of the Thompson submachine gun(chambered in "All American" .45 ACP, of course), and was a particular favorite of the Einsatzgruppen. You know who they were, right, amprecon? They were the slugs who executed Jews wholesale. Just a little revisionist history/food for thought, sir. We're talking about inanimate objects here. I'm sure Feinstein, Schumer, and their whole bunch just love to attach evil intent and evil characteristics to "things", also. [/quote]

Parabellum,
Lighten up buddy!!! We both know that amprecon is just a boulder spitting power freak with a new angle!!!!! No need to get so bent. The boy is probably just a product of the public school system. ;)


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Yeah, I got a permit to carry,it's called the friggin Constitution.---Ted Nugent

"Glock 26: 17 rounds of concealed carry DEATH comming your way from out of nowhere!!! THAT'S FIREPOWER, BABY!!!"
 
I wouldn't want to insult amprecon's schooling. I think he merely used a different example of showing his patriotism for a true American caliber, which...of course the .45 ACP is. Perhaps he is just not as well versed in 20th century middle European history as some. But I do not think his statements were intended as may have been taken. We may all be better served to except them as no more than sentiments expressed about an American classic caliber/firearm. A minor point when taken in context of the subject.

Speaking of which...back on topic. There are literally thousands of 9mm that have been used to good advantage as a defensive weapon for years. However I, personally, do not care for the 9 as a defensive cartridge. I do not want to elaborate in order to avoid the age old....and never to be resolved agrument of .45 vs. 9mm vs. .357 vs. nucular warhead, et. al. If buying a new gun whose intended purpose was self defense I would opt for a larger caliber.
However, as stated above, no caliber is effective if one can not shoot it well. Use the largest caliber you can comfortably and proficiently shoot.


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Gunslinger

I was promised a Shortycicle and I want a Shortycicle!
 
I feel just fine with the 9. I like my Colt .45 also but it seems many think it is a death ray or some mag kill anything gun. Some even think a 230 ball will out perform a 9 +P+ HP load. It just comes down to what you like and feel good with. If you miss the first shot a competent shooter may put 4 9mm rounds in your arm pit and you will die before you get on target again. A lack of shooting skill is no reason to say a caliber is of no use. Besides who would ever be stupid enough to shoot one 9 round and say are you still up and about? :)
 
Therapydude,


For correct answer to your question reread my original post.

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"All my ammo is factory ammo"
 
Reliability, Practice & Shot Placement are the most important factors. Not Caliber! G19's are extremely reliable. A great choice.

[This message has been edited by BUTCH48 (edited September 05, 2000).]
 
I appreciate all of the responses (even though some of you strayed a bit from the gist of the original thread). Thanks a lot, I'm going to go ahead and get the G19.
 
It takes nearly 2 seconds to react, raise pistol and get 8 chest hits, even at 10 ft and less. It takes 1 1/2 second more to get 7 more such hits. If I HAD the extra time, I could have brained the guy with one of the first 8, yes? If a concealed draw is necessary, add another 3/4 sec. These times are for TOP hands. Most people need 2x as long. If we really DID need 308 type momentum or energy for defense, it would be pointless to shoot them with a mere 9mm. In point of fact, tho, the 64 223 sp downs men quite reliably, and is quite demonstrably reliable on feral dogs. Since many dogs need to be shot, pistol performance against theml IS relevant, while same is not true of goats or deer. We CAN achieve 223 type performance in a carryable and controlable belt pistol. The 460 Rowland can drive a 70 gr prefrag to 2400 fps, for the same 900 ft lbs (up close) that a 223 has out at 100 yds or so, (where most coyotes and dogs get shot.) So you are wrong about the pistol being so feeble. If it is loaded right, it can have PLENTY of power. The load I mentioned has LESS recoil than .45 ball. Just multiply the slug wt x the velocity, and throw out the meaningless zeros. A 240 gr slug at 700 fps would recoil the same as a 70 gr slug at 2400 fps. The 2 might be PERCEIVED as having a different "feel", because of the shorter bore-time of the hi-v load, that's all.
 
Still stops more bad guys than any other round in the world. Stand in front of a 9mm and tell me it's not deadly.

My 9mm Glocks and HKs are just fine.

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The Seattle SharpShooter - TFL/GT/UGW/PCT/KTOG
 
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