Your Opinion ...on Gun Values - Used guns

WVsig said:
Please explain how I missquoted you …
Perhaps if you taken more than a minute to peruse our previous postings, then I wouldn't have to explain.
First, you added emphasis without noting your action -- there was no bold text in my original. To change my text is misquoting just as much as changing my words. As long as I mentioned changing my words:

You claimed I indicated, "Young people have no attention span." My term was very shot, not no. There's a huge difference.

You claimed I indicated young people have, "No discipline." I never used the word discipline.

You claimed I indicated young people have, "No respect for shooting as a sport and only want to shoot people?" Where did the words respect and only come from, I don't recall use them, either. If you haven't noticed the shift from bullseye to silhouette targets by handgunners, then I suspect you're in the minority.​
The next time you choose to condemn someone by quoting their posting, hopefully you'll be more accurate. Remember, you're the one who turned an observation about changing shooting attitudes possibly altering gun values into a condemnation of the younger generation.
 
Perhaps if you taken more than a minute to peruse our previous postings, then I wouldn't have to explain.

First, you added emphasis without noting your action -- there was no bold text in my original. To change my text is misquoting just as much as changing my words. As long as I mentioned changing my words:

You claimed I indicated, "Young people have no attention span." My term was very shot, not no. There's a huge difference.

You claimed I indicated young people have, "No discipline." I never used the word discipline.

You claimed I indicated young people have, "No respect for shooting as a sport and only want to shoot people?" Where did the words respect and only come from, I don't recall use them, either. If you haven't noticed the shift from bullseye to silhouette targets by handgunners, then I suspect you're in the minority.

The next time you choose to condemn someone by quoting their posting, hopefully you'll be more accurate. Remember, you're the one who turned an observation about changing shooting attitudes possibly altering gun values into a condemnation of the younger generation.

I bolded the parts of your statement so that people could quickly see why I take issue with it. You seem to fail to understand the meaning of the "?" at the end of my statements.

Look at what I wrote:
Look at all the negativity thrown toward the younger generations. Young people have no attention span? No discipline? No respect for shooting as a sport and only want to shoot people?

I am asking you multiple questions not quoting you. Instead of addressing those questions you are throwing a fit.

In the end it does not really matter. You are stuck in your mindset and I am not going to waste any more effort attempting to change it. You stated we have a generational thing and then made negative comments about the newer generation.

Anyway clearly we have a failure to communicate I can only assume it is a generational thing.... :rolleyes:
 
Back to the OP...

Older guns like Colt Pythons, HK P7s and non-mim S&Ws are no longer being produced. That alone will help them retain their value. They might see swings but in general they are not going to devalue below what they are worth today. They are a market where the supply cannot grow and even if the demand dips which I do not really think it will. The reason a Python can command the price is does is because there is a lot more demand than supply. That equation will not change for these types of guns even after the boomers are gone.

ISK makes a great point that for many people the higher end guns are out of their price range. They would love to own one but the funds are simply not there. They can swing a $500 Glock but a $1500 Sig is just not in the cards. It is not that they do not want one or appreciate them. If they have the money later in life they will pay a premium to obtain them down the road.

Higher end guns are an acquired taste which one learns to appreciate only after a lot of shooting. That was what I was trying to say when I stated that the real demand for guns like a Sig X-5 is limited to a certain number of people because in todays economy only a small % feel the need to have them and can afford them. It is already a niche market but if Sig does not over produce the pistol there should be profit and stable pricing even in the used market. It will be hard for the demand for these guns to outpace their availability unless people like Sig overproduce them.

High end 1911s like Wilson, Les Baer, Novak etc... have high profile here but they do not equal even 1% of the firearms market in the US. Most people who own a handgun or 2 know nothing about these elite niche guns. Avid shooters and enthusiasts prize them and are willing to pay for them but for most people even today they are never a consideration.

I think when we hang out on these forums and see examples of these high end guns we get a false impression of how diverse the gun owning community really is. We get an inflated sense of just how many of these high end guns are out there. For many people the nicest 1911s they know of are production Colts and Kimbers, because they are sooooo fancy looking. LOL High end guns like you are taking about are simply not something most people who own guns and any experience with or even know about.

Back in the day when you were buying those nice old S&Ws they were not the avg gun. They were quality then which is why they are valued now. I do not see that changing. They were the high end guns of their day.

It is kind of like motorcycles. Tons of the younger crowd love crotch rockets and race bikes but there is still a huge growing market for Harleys. The love of one does not exclude the love of the other. The growth in one market does not mean the death of the other.
 
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What do you think ? Will value on old S&W or Colt revolvers continue to go up ? Will high end 1911's still demand a premium price over $ 2,500 ? Are guns like the Sig X-Five at $ 2,100 -- or any Sig over $1,000 a market that will increase ?? or will all of these high end guns - end up in a niche market ? Will the values on these guns crash ...like baseball cards did from the 80's and 90's when they were hot ...vs today / when they're almost worthless... / what will happen when all of us Baby Boomers are gone ...will the market change ??

This is a great question! In fact, I often think about this. Here's the way I see it. Tastes change.....my tastes have changed. Many people go through a "tacticool" phase - I did. Heck, I still can appreciate a nice AR build, SCAR-17, FAL's, FNC's, STI GP6, even (caugh...caugh) Glocks. But, more and more I find myself really appreciating fine workmanship. So, what's on my want list now? Sphinx AT2000, Korth .357, Swiss 1882 revolver, Pre 1920 Commercial 1911, 1900 era Luger, Borchardt C-93, Sig X-Five.....and I'm warming up to Dan Wesson 1911's. (I know, I also want to win the lottery!)

1st Gen SAA's will continue to appreciate. Pythons - tough call, they had a heck of a run-up, I think mostly because Baby Boomers who couldn't afford them when they were kids are snapping them up now. I don't see older S&W revolvers appreciating all that much more (over inflation). However, I do think S&W 3rd gen autos have room for appreciation. Machine guns will continue to appreciate. I also think that high quality, limited production modern rifles and autos will continue to appreciate. I think the GP6 (also HK Poly-framed pistols) is something to watch - pretty darn good quality poly-framed pistol.

Well, those are just my thoughts.
 
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During my life span of five and a half decades, there have always been cheap and expensive guns available, and each found a market. My first purchase (hold the snickers, please) was an Armenius revolver. That was all I could afford then, but now I own a couple of nice guns and wouldn't mind owning some more. I drank cheaper beer and ate more fast food when I was younger, too. Could it be, Jim, that your grandchildren's current purchases reflect their current budget and tastes, and that as they grow older and have more disposable income and more refined taste, their purchasing pattern might change? And might others follow a similar pattern?

I hope so, I think so, so I don't think the market for quality firearms will die soon. I don't think firearms or any other collectibles are good investment vehicles, at least for a significant part of one's portfolio, but I don't expect them to go away in the coming generation, either.
 
tastes change over time

when younger the only things that cought my eye were semi autos (higher capacity read 10+ rounds+) and ak style guns...

as i have had a few more birthdays, i have gone back to wood, walnut blued steel and stainless..

i appreciate a nice ar 15 and prefer it over the ak's, mainly for the groups i can shoot with it..

the auto-5's and old wingmasters have an appeal for me, as well as the older pre lock pre mim smiths...

same for a nice 1911 or cz 75, or highpower..or older hi standard..

something about craftsmanship, and weapons with soul appeals to me more now..

especially when they are enjoyable to use and own..

while the newer designs are usable, functional, made of newer components, they just don't give me the same feel..

so yes, i think there will still be a market but it won't generally be to the first time shooters or collectors, as it develops in time...

kind of like streetrods, not everyone having a packard or a 47 caddy..
and thats their appeal..
 
There will be a market, although for fine guns, its not the mainstream market (where people want functional, then cheap, in that order).

Your guns will very likely not lose any value. What will change is the number of dollars it takes to equal the value!

To me, fine used S&W's should be in the $300 range. Also good 1911A1s. Maybe $500 for a custom gun. But I don't get to pay $0.60 for a gallon of premium gas anymore, either....:(

Its our dollar, and its buying power that makes the prices change, not the value of the item. Demand plays a bit part in market price, but demand is also variable.

At some point in their lives, your grandkids may realize that "hey, this old stull is really cool!" (or whatever the phrase is when they get there;))

Or it may never happen, kids being as individual as the rest of us. But rest assured, there will always be someone out there, with some money, who thinks they are cool.
 
BigJim,

I'm in my early 40's and raising a family and paying a mortgage. I love firearms and am beginning to amass a decent collection of my own. It consists of both types you mention, mostly cheaper "poly" type but also a few real nice "steel" ones. It's just that right now, it is easier for me to afford the cheaper guns (<$1000). Not that I don't covet those nicer , more expensive sidearms!

As to your question, I plan on being one buying those more expensive guns in10 years or so, after my daughter is out of school and the place is paid for. So, yes I think there will be a market in the future as more guys like me become independant of the financial burdens we face in middle age.
 
Big Jim,

I am close to your age. I bought my first Ruger Super Blackhawk for $98.00 brand new and had to put it on layaway when I was in my twenties. Now I have about one hundred guns. My last Ruger Super Blackhawk I purchased for $450.00. And this is a single action revolver (the least popular type of modern pistol)!

I bought a 1908 nickel plated Colt vest pistol last year for $350.00 and last weekend saw one just like it at a gun show for $1,000.00.

Will prices fluctuate? Sure. But, you are a young man, and unless you shoot a gun it isn't eating anything. If you enjoy them I wouldn't worry about market value for your grand kids.

Classics are just that. They improve with age. With a flood of polymer pistols hitting the market, their values won't increase greatly, but good old steel guns tend to hang in there.

Kind of like cars with chrome bumpers. I used to have a 1969 Camaro. Sold it for $1,500.00 years ago. I couldn't buy it again for $9,000.00 today.

But also, like rare currency, a piece is only worth what someone will pay. I was at an auction and watched a WWII Steyer go for $300.00 and beautiful Spanish Mausers flowing out the door for $100.00 each. A colt Python came up and when the dust settled it went for $2,500.00 (CRAZY TALK).

Oh, and I have my share of poly framed guns, but they are shooters. However, my Walthers and FN Five-seveN have increased in value as well.
 
I collect N frame S&W revolvers and muscle cars. I was also working for a friend that sold high end cars through a collector in the 80’s and 90’s and got to drive some really special cars.
The thing I remember from the 90’s is how Ferrari’s and Lamborghini’s just went through the roof in prices. I’m talking used cars and not the really special ones, just about any of them. Then after 10 years of craziness the bottom fell out of the prices. Cars that sold for 50 to 70K in the 90’s won’t bring 40 today.
At the same time good quality muscle cars slowly increased. But increased each year at a steady rate. The same thing has happened with collector guns like N frame smiths, Pythons and some 1911’s. At no time (Other than just before the last election) did prices get crazy.
Two weeks ago I paid 1200$ for an S&W 55 target in very nice condition. I don’t expect it to go down anytime soon unless the present political system maintains there ruthless attack against gun owners.
Personally I fear the anti gun cooks that are in power more than the possible price deprecation of guns.
 
None of my personal collection is ever going to be for sale/not even after I'm gone..( and I'm only 62 ...so I'm not going anywhere soon, I hope )....so I'm not worried about the value of my collection ( except to make sure I have enough insurance - just in case)...

I do try and keep a spreadsheet with replacement values current - based on what I see are current prices in the market ...

But it looks like I was getting the wrong impression ...that guys in their 20's and 30's today would never pay more than $ 750 for any handgun --- ...ever.../maybe its the loudest guys I just hear ...and the ones that are looking towards the days they can spend a little more for what they consider better guns ...are just quieter...don't know / and while I do think guns like the Springfield XD-M for around $ 700 is a lot of gun for the money right now ...I hope these older guns / custom guns continue to demand a "fair" but decent value in the market - so shooters can continue to enjoy them like I have.
 
For reference, I am 23 and bought my first handgun when I was 21.5...

I love my Glocks, (I have 3) its not because I love steel guns less or anything, but I just love my Glocks. They are cheap, reliable and an all around good gun.

I also have an upper end production 1911 (Dan Wesson Valor)...I love that too.

The big thing with young people such as myself is I don't have 2 grand to drop on a gun right now. I paid a little under $1400 for my DW and that was a bit of a stretch for me.

I love all guns and if budget were not an issue, I would have a lot of S&W Revolvers or the like. I appreciate all guns....kind of like cars...I love GM/Chevy old and new, but I like some of the new foreign stuff too.

But I don't think the prices of the older stuff will plummet or anything...someone will appreciate them...just at my stage in life I cannot appreciate them other than just looking at them.

Variety is the spice of life...and I hope to have all kinds of variety.
 
It's all about being able to delay gratification and that comes with age and maturity. There was a time when my gun fund would get to about $600 and I'd go out and buy whatever I could get for that much money. I bought a lot of guns that way and got to experience what I liked and didn't like. I didn't take too long before the guns in the $600 range lost interest to me. I was exposed early on to some very fine guns and it didn't take me long to realize that of I just wait a little longer and save up a little more, I could get a truly classic gun. I had to learn that delaying that gratification of buying a $600 gun would be well worth it if I could wait a little longer and buy a $1200 fine firearm. Now I'm at a place where I'd rather than 5 truly classic guns than 10 to 12 guns that are a dime a dozen.
 
Technically I'm still in my 30's (barely)

I don't have a large collection of firearms, though I do enjoy them. I just have other priorities that have needs...like 4 kids, house note, ect. lol


My father is hitting 65 this year, just retired last year and bought 2 guns (a shotgun and a semi-auto) this year. The first guns he's bought in 40 years. At home in the gun safe are all of the hunting shotguns and rifles He had growing up as well as Grandpa's collection. I asked him why the sudden interest after so many years his response, "You boys are out of the house and are taking care of yourselves, I can spend my money anyway I like." Fair enough Pop.

Just a matter of needs vs wants. I save up my spending money and buy something I like.

I want an M1, I just can't justify to myself of the $800-$1000 to get one right now.
Actually, I have list of firearms I'd like to own. :)


I also think it could be part of today's culture. Video games, and movies make the polymer and 'black' rifles cool. Just like 'Dirty Harry' made .44 magnums kewl!

Maybe if you take them shooting, and let them put a few rounds down range they might get an appreciation for them.

My Dad's Sears&Roebuck .22, I'll never get rid of it simply because it was his first gun.

Just my 2cents..
 
I am a 34 SWM, pisces, 5'6" & "huskey" I enjoy Single Action Revolvers and taking my attention span on LONG walks.
 
I think that some people buy collectible things like trains, stamps, and guns with the expectation that someday they will be worth a lot of money. Those people worry about the current/future value of those items. Other people buy things that they like and enjoy owning those things and they don't care what the future price is for those items. With guns, you will always have demand and as gun people get older and build wealth they will have more money to buy better quality guns. Americans are unique amongst the peoples of this world in that our laws protect our rights to own guns. We can buy as many guns as we want, whenever we want to buy them, with few limitations (varies by state and local area). But, in the background will always be the fear that this could all change. In the background, every gun guy knows that we might just be only one more mass shooting incident away from a gun rights crackdown. It was terrible and sad that an apparently deranged man in Arizona shot that Congresswoman and those other people. But it is amazing to me, and appreciated, that even with one of their own shot and seriously wounded Congress never even tried to do anything to diminish our gun rights after that incident. But how many more bad incidents can there be without Congress (that means Democrats AND Republicans) moving to try to limit our gun rights? Well, debating answers to that question is not at all my point here. My point is that unlike model trains or stamps or baseball cards or Mustang cars, there is a background fear that at any moment with little or no warning, our access to a supply of new guns may abruptly stop and hence the value of owning the guns we do already own may go through the roof. THAT fear will always be there. And, so guns will always hold value.
 
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I live in a retirement community and see a lot of estates disposed of. When you die, your beloved possessions will become just 'stuff' that needs to be gotten out of the way. When you did you won't care, or know, what happens to your 'stuff'. If you need the cash sell now and take a cruise. If you don't, ask your kids now what they want and don't want. Sell the unwanted. Really, guns are just items, when you are gone so is the sentiment.
 
I agree with Rifleman1776 about that. When you are gone, the stuff you have will be disposed of somehow. Your heirs may get ripped off by selling to unfair buyers who pay way less than market value, or they may get market value, or more perhaps if the heirs are good businesspeople. But when that happens, you will not know about it. My Dad has always had a hobby of dealing with plants. He makes rock gardens, has a green house in his backyard, has various plant growing stations set up at the house (we always joke that the cops are going to figure he's growing drugs but it is all legit plants). He's got plants everywhere and is always doing stuff with them, puttering in the garden or the greenhouse, etc. One day my mother asked him what to do with all the plants if something happened to my Dad. He said he doesn't worry about that at all and does not care one wit what gets done with them. He said that plants are his hobby and he is enjoying them while he is here and he does not worry or care about what happens after he has passed.


I forget the exact number, but it is something like 10,000 people in America turn 65 years old each day. So, lots of people who have accumulated some nice historic and classic firearms. But through moving to living arrangements that do not make it practical to continue to own all of their guns, or ultimately when they pass away there are likely going to be a lot of older, classic, historic firearms coming onto the market. That concept has already killed the market for dining room sets (you can't give them away in many places because so many baby boomers are trying to downsize their living arrangements and the younger generations do not want those big expansive table and chair sets). The concept will also lower the prices of many collectibles. How many of today's younger people really want a classic Mustang? Not nearly as many people as wanted them in the 80's and 90's. So as the 5 million + Winchester model 94's that are in people's closets and gun safes start to come onto the market in increasing amounts, that might be a stimulus that could drive down prices. Then you have the fact that today's young people want an AR-15 with a Surefire 60 round magazine, not a lever-action 30/30. That could drive down prices. But you know what? They are not making any more of those pre-64 Model 70's and pre-64 Model 94's. And in many states, such as PA, we can buy, sell, trade rifles with other fellow citizens without any paper trails. And, as I pointed out above, there is always that background tension about how the government could try at any time to limit our God-given rights to self-defense just like they've done throughout the rest of the English-speaking world over the past 200 years. THAT FACTOR will always push the prices up or at least maintain a floor for prices for firearms in working condition.

I've got some old Model 94's that I like owning but I never shoot them because it is just not fun for me at all to try to use iron sights. My vision is such that it is just very frustrating, so I have not shot any of those classic model 94's for years. I don't really need them, and since they are locked away in a gun vault it is kind of pointless for me to have them. But I like having them. I thought about selling all but one but I keep coming back to the ideas that they are not making any more of those pre-64 Winchester model 94's, and they are all in working condition and very well cared for, and the government may make access to a supply of new firearms very difficult or impossible sometime sooner than we'd all like, so I am going to just hang on to each one of them. A model 94 takes up very little room! A Colt Trooper or Python or a S&W 19 takes up even less room. No need to sell them. I don't have any kids or even any younger generation relatives who have any interest in firearms, so my lawyer has the name and contact info for a gun shop owner that I trust, and my family members can get him to sell the guns for whatever he thinks is fair when that day comes.
 
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