Your last gun fight..??

Status
Not open for further replies.
More gun is never a bad thing until it reaches the point that you have so much gun you leave it at home.
Click to expand...

Well put.

A friend of mine..a Gentleman in his 80's..recently asked for my help in choosing a new EDC firearm.

He had a nice S&W M36 .38spc that he carried since the 1970's. It was a good pistol and he could be quite effective with it but age had degraded his eyesight which led to him having trouble acquiring the front sight. He was a very good shot, had experience on the US Navy Pistol Team, and combat experience in Vietnam. His stance and shooting techniques very much reflected the 1960's and 1970's. The pistol was normally kept in the glove compartment of his vehicle.

I let him shoot my P365 and he was very impressed with the pistol and its capability. With the night sights standard, it turned out be easy for him to see. Additionally I was able to demonstrate some shooting drills for multiple targets and various magazine changes (tactical and emergency).

He ended up purchasing a P365, holster, magazine holder, and two 12 round magazines. He has since routinely practiced every morning drawing, grip, and stance adopting to a modern style.

He carries the pistol on his person in such a manner that he can get to it whether driving, sitting, or walking. Several times he has remarked how much better able to defend himself and more capable a defense he is now able to put forth compared to the Model 36.

One of the few who able to adapt to new tricks after a lifetime of doing very well with his older techniques.
 
The question of how many rounds to carry is, to me, a question of how prepared one wants to be.

A very large majority of the American populace carries nothing, and never suffers any ill effects from being unarmed. But there are a few people in the nation's newspapers every day who probably wish they had gone armed.

A person who carries a snub revolver is better prepared than all of those, and the mere sight of a handgun ends a fair number of criminal encounters. But an encounter that includes any combination of multiple attackers, more determined attacker, or less than stellar marksmanship by the defender could leave the defender wishing for more capability.

A person who carries a semi with or without a second mag has more abilities, but could conceivably still be overcome by a sustained attack or by plain old bad luck regarding getting hits and getting hit.

How prepared do you want to be? The choice is yours.
 
davidsog said:
In a 43 hour continuous firefight in 2002 I went thru 3 basic combat loads myself and the unit was resupplied twice with ammo/water.

I have never seen a gunfight lost because the other side had too many rounds but I have seen them lost for lack of shooting back.
Click to expand...
I hear you on that. Been outnumbered, overpowered, with casualties, out of water and low on ammo and still managed to win. And being low on ammo is something that will never be forgotten... it is a entirely unique fear. Even as a civilian, it's not something I ever want to experience again. It all boils down to complacency as a civilian. I gave up on comfort a long time ago to where if I ever do feel comfortable, like checking the mailbox on the main road with the gun left on the console, I realize immediately and put it on just to walk 10 feet. I don't grab the spare magazine for that though. lol

There are a few urban areas not that far where packs of thugs pile in a car looking for trouble. Even out in the country, I'll be filling up gas on a nice day and hear thundering base a mile away only to have these losers pull right in the station... and I'm always glad I have additional ammo on hand if I need it.
 
"...need to have a legit reason to carry more..." "I want one." is the only reason you need. Adults get to do that.
Mind you, if you can't get out of the mess you got into with 5 or 6, 10 or 12 isn't going to help. CCW is not about going into combat. Isn't about being a cop either.
 
I've been carrying since 1992, never "needed" a single bullet.
My EDC is a Glock 23 IWB + spare mag + 2nd option™ pistol in weak hand pocket.
Option to put my hand on it without revealing I'm carrying and option to quickly access pistol with weak hand if dominant hand unavailable.

My philosophy is to carry a primary pistol that I would prefer to have in hand if I had to defend myself, with the additional criteria of: is easily concealed, even in summer attire and tolerable for 2 mile walks with my dogs.

Preferred pistol (Glock 23) does not change due to location or time of day; I consider what I'm carrying "sufficient" for wherever.

Just a pocket gun fails both simple criteria, a pocket gun is not what I would prefer in hand if I had to defend myself nor would I consider one "sufficient" for wherever. Some people have a flawed (opinion, I know) carry philosophy where their carry increases with distance from home (location) or time of day, as if criminals & psychopaths are mostly immobile & nocturnal.

Main idea: There is nowhere I'd prefer to bet my life on "just" a snub or pocket 380 rather than a Glock 23 and I carry accordingly.
 
I carry what is adequate for my needs, and yet, can be properly concealed. Never saw much need to justify or explain on a forum; still don’t.
 
T. O'Heir said:
"...need to have a legit reason to carry more..." "I want one." is the only reason you need. Adults get to do that.
Mind you, if you can't get out of the mess you got into with 5 or 6, 10 or 12 isn't going to help. CCW is not about going into combat. Isn't about being a cop either.
Click to expand...
You can't be serious. With that thinking, passing magazine restrictions around where you live will be a breeze for the liberals.

I guess you have the schedule that I can't seem to find with all the shootings for today and tomorrow and the next year, that also lists the type of offender and if they are on pcp or not.

CCW for some of us is surviving a worse case scenario. Apparently CCW for some of you is a joke.
 
CCW for some of us is surviving a worse case scenario. Apparently CCW for some of you is a joke.
Click to expand...

So what exactly is the worst case scenario and how many rounds does it take? Chances are we have all made some compromise simply to be able to carry. Its not like we are discussing touting around long guns and most of us are not discussing 100+ rounds even though there are recorded fire fights outside of military action that used that many.

Now granted some of the "no one needs more than" are eye roll inducing especially when they advocate what others should carry but most people are willing to live and let live. Carry what you have determined is appropriate for you. Demanding that it is excessive, or not enough, when others have made a decision for themselves is paternalism and morally suspect at best.
 
OneFreeTexan
Your last gun fight..??
this is tongue in cheek,,, however, I have carried for over 30 yrs, and never had to draw. good thing of course, because I carry a snub revolver,, only 5 or 6 shots.

So all you experts that carry 10-12 round magazines,,, and or have at least 3 or 4 more stashed in holders or pockets. How many have you used in an actual gun fight??

I need to have a legit reason to carry more..

I do practice with my revolver at least three times a week, shooting 50 rounds each time... I think I am fairly good at ranges 7 to 10 yards.
Click to expand...

Last gunfight I had ended with zero shots fired and that was around 30 years ago. Carry what you want and as many or few rounds as you want. Nobody's life but your's.
 
Last edited:
The OP is not wrong.
Click to expand...
If ue is really basing his analysis on the fact that he has not het needed to use deadly force for self preservaion his thought process is wrong.

Most of the time a civilian would need a gun for legitimate self defense five rounds is going to be enough -
Click to expand...
Do you really think it prudent to adopt a risk mitigation approach that might suffice "most of the time", when it costs nothing to do better?

I'm not certain why we, and yes that is the inclusive we, feel the need to convince each other that the decision we have made for ourselves is the right one for others.
Click to expand...
It's not that all. It is simply a matter of providing others with what it takes to make informed decisions.
 
Lohman446 said:
So what exactly is the worst case scenario and how many rounds does it take? Chances are we have all made some compromise simply to be able to carry. Its not like we are discussing touting around long guns and most of us are not discussing 100+ rounds even though there are recorded fire fights outside of military action that used that many.

Now granted some of the "no one needs more than" are eye roll inducing especially when they advocate what others should carry but most people are willing to live and let live. Carry what you have determined is appropriate for you. Demanding that it is excessive, or not enough, when others have made a decision for themselves is paternalism and morally suspect at best.
Click to expand...
I don't care what anyone else carries.

I am not recommending anyone carry what I carry.

If someone wants to put one round in their revolver, that is fine, luckily I don't know anyone like that.

What I find irritating is when someone looks at others, maybe me, maybe other people I know that have some common sense, who have a spare magazine or a few extra in the glove box when we're out and somehow imply that is excessive. Apparently some people on here think you will only need 5 or 6 and if you need more you are not going to get out of whatever situation anyway. I find that to be ridiculous. Am I the only one that finds that logic to be absolutely ridiculous?

Carry or not carry whatever you want, just don't act like people who have an extra mag or two or three have some deficit in their logic.

My worst case is a few scenarios and none of them would lead me to believe 5 or 6 rounds would be adequate. 5 or 6 rounds is for when I'm on the mower or cutting wood up.
 
Last edited:
What I find irritating is when someone looks at others, maybe me, maybe other people I know that have some common sense, who have a spare magazine or a few extra in the glove box when we're out and somehow imply that is excessive. Apparently some people on here think you will only need 5 or 6 and if you need more you are not going to get out of whatever situation anyway. I find that to be ridiculous. Am I the only one that finds that logic to be absolutely ridiculous?
Click to expand...

I think some of us may take more offense than is offered or given. Have people eluded to such offense from both sides? Yep. But I think the majority are simply trying to explain their position. Perhaps we (that would be the inclusive we) are allowing the few who offer offense to cloud the discussion most have.
 
Lohman446 said:
I think some of us may take more offense than is offered or given. Have people eluded to such offense from both sides? Yep. But I think the majority are simply trying to explain their position. Perhaps we (that would be the inclusive we) are allowing the few who offer offense to cloud the discussion most have.
Click to expand...
I think you're right. What I do every day is no different than what millions of others do. I felt like I had to defend it. Sorry for getting upset.
 
Each man must seek his own salvation.

I carry 2 reloads, sometimes 3 if toting a wheel gun. Extra ammo/mags in the car.
 
I have never been in a gunfight with anyone

that said-

I find it rather odd that a person would choose to carry a gun which essentially stands in the face of staggering statistics which suggest that its very unlikely you will ever need it but then engages in hand wringing over carrying a little bit of ammo.

This is the way I look at it: If I am suddenly faced with life threatening peril and manange to have everything line up perfectly in my favor AND I manage to land every shot. I probably only need 2-3 shots ( on average)

This is the perfect world analogy which I obviously do not subscribe to if I am carrying a gun to begin with. I don't plan or expect the perfect-world conditions. I plan and expect any gunfight to be a complete mess which offers nothing in my favor and where I perform half as good as I expect to.

The question in my mind is not whether or not I need an extra mag or whether or not "statistics" supports the need of an extra mag. I ask myself one simple question. If my fight goes to complete crap in a handbasket, will I probably or probably not want an extra mag.

I know you said this is tongue in cheek.. so I will give you an appropriate answer. .. quit all the caterwauling and get you a real carry gun.
 
In 1561, Thomas Norton and Thomas Sackville wrote a play titled The Tragedie of Gorbuduc in which appeared the phrase "Hope for the best and prepare for the worst." That's what we do when we decide to carry a firearm (or any weapon) for self defense. Needing to actually use the weapon would be a worst case scenario. We hope that we'll never need it (hope for the best), but we carry in order to be prepared if the best case doesn't play out (plan for the worst).

So we've decided to carry a gun. In a "best of the worst" case scenario, if we need to use a gun we may only need one, two, or three shots. But suppose we encounter a worst of the worst scenario? It's dark, there are multiple adversaries, and several shots miss or only produce minor wounds. If you're faced with three adversaries and all you have is a five-shot revolver, that gives you two shots each at two adversaries, and only one shot at the third. Those aren't great odds.

My last gun fight was in South Vietnam in 1968. I have no idea how many people were on the opposing team, and I have no idea how many rounds I fired. It was night time, and we weren't counting. I hope I never go through another gun fight ... but I live in a part of the U.S. where carjackings and muggings are not unheard of.

The Boy Scout motto is, "Be prepared." What constitutes an appropriate level of preparedness is a personal evaluation. Why argue over it? Carry as much ammo (or as many guns) as you need to make you feel comfortable, and don't worry about what the next guy is or isn't carrying.
 
April 6 , 2004 .
He shot 4 times ... I shot once .
I'm glad he was a poor shot ... only hits count .
My advice is to become proficient with your gun and stay cool under fire .
Panic will get you killed in a fight .
Gary
 
Or you could just indicate those who have made a decision different than you did could not have possibly done so for logical reasons because logic can only have one correct answer*. Sarcasm still does not carry well

*For the record, outside of empirically tested evidence to the contrary, logic can often have multiple answers that are logically reasonable. Logic can even be wrong. Galileo's arguments built on empirical testing of inclined planes and objects of different weights were not as much an affront to the Church of the day as they were to arguments built off Aristotelian logic (which was important to the Church of the day). Premises were shown to be wrong through empirical testing but until that point were accepted as correct.
Click to expand...
Even with empirical testing of things like shot-to-shot times, accuracy and examination of empirical evidence like gunfight statistics and the experience of experts, people can still come to different valid conclusions when it comes to things like a carry gun.

If a person shoots a gun very well, finds it easy to carry, can operate it skillfully (beyond just shooting it) and has gone through some reasonable process of testing, research and logic to arrive at a number of rounds to carry, it's quite likely that another person going through the same process won't end up with exactly the same carry guns and exactly the same number of rounds even though both of them have made good choices.

What I was trying to get across is that most people don't really do any of that stuff. They buy a gun they like or use the gun they have but then argue tooth and nail that their carry decision was based purely on logic, testing, research, etc.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top