Your favorite 38 special powder?

C

Chainsaw.

New member
Hey guys, Im trying to develop a good 38 load. Like in the post about 357mag utilitarian load Im looking for the same thing, near max but not bonkers power factor for general shooting. I have a load I like for bunny fart loads but want something on the other end of the spectrum. Ive tried the powders that I already have laying around but am not liking the results, titegroup just doesnt fill the case enough, h4227 is to slow of a powder, etc etc. Id like something that fills at least half the case both for position sensitivity and for course safe loading. Oh and said load will be using 158 grain cast lead bullets no gas check.

Will be shot from a smith 586 in 357 mag so pressure isnt a big concern beyond the obvious reloading safety parameters.
 
Getting the case fill you are seeking may not be possible unless you use Trail Boss, which won't get you the power you're after. Your best bet may be with Unique, Universal, HS-6, or SR4756.
 
If case fill is the only reason you avoid Titegroup, I would ask if your aversion to case fill is about the chance of accidental double/triple? If yes to that, I would suggest that precious few powders will properly load .38 Special without tons of extra, open space. Furthermore, Titegroup is perhaps -THE- most case position INSENSITIVE powder on the market... meaning, if you must use a small charge in a big case, Titegroup is probably the most consistent (best choice!) ever.

With all that said... hahaha... I absolutely HATE Titegroup in .38 Special and I won't use it in .38 anymore... this is simply for one reason, one reason only: I hate that it makes the cylinder so damn HOT that I cannot stand to handle the cylinder. Really, really hate the volume of heat.

Whew, exhale. To actually answer your question:
Bullseye, and I have literally (I mean it), I have used/attempted/experimented with a dozen different powders in varying .38 Special loads over many years and I just keep coming back to Bullseye. I plan to use Bullseye in .38 until either Bullseye is out of production or I am done from this Earth.
 
Nosler 8 manual loading densities for 158gr JHP 38 Special max charges:

Power Pistol. 44%
Unique. 50%
Universal. 45%
HS-6. 46%
Bullseye. 42%
SR4756. 56%

Notes:
1) These percentages represent case fill with the bullet seated, not the percent fill of an empty case.
2). These loads are with a Nosler jacketed bullet. Cast bullet max loads will be a little different.
3). The above powders and case fills are listed in order of increasing velocity measured by Nosler during their testing.

The above is offered only as a point of reference to illustrate the case fills of different powders when used with 158gr 38 Special loads.
 
I use Unique. I'm not sure it is the "best", but it gets the job done. Yeah it's a little dirty but a spay of any cleaner and 30 seconds of elbow grease will get rid of most of the soot.
 
Look at the data that Hodgdon provides on their reloading data center.
You can compare powder charges for whatever bullet you are using. Since you are not concerned with pressure look at the 38 Special +P loads.
You can find the data HERE.

Book mark it for future use.
 
TiteGroup is a bit fast for your desired load - aside from the low case fill. It also runs really hot; which doesn't bode well for lead bullets anyway.

So TiteGroup is out - 3X.

I think you're looking for an intermediate burn rate propellant.

For lead, Unique would be a good choice. It has a good fill and doesn't run real hot. It does however, tend to run sooty. And you'll have to pump 'em up a bit to get it to run fairly clean. Possibly exceeding +P levels a little. But since you mentioned that you'll be running them in a 357 Mag gun, that shouldn't be an issue.

HS-6 would be another good choice. Runs cool so it's lead friendly. Case fill isn't quite as good as Unique though - but still decent. And it too will have you running into sooty burns if you don't pump 'em up a bit.

AA#5 is a good choice too. Leans a bit faster than the above two; which is a good thing in this scenario. Runs cleaner too; but also runs hotter.

Power Pistol has been mentioned. It would be worth a try. But it's really spunky stuff and I suspect it runs too hot for lead. I use a lot of PP, but mostly for full throttle loadings in semi-auto calibers, and using jacketed bullets.
 
Good stuff guys.

Tite group is my go to for anything auto loading (pistols), at least whats in my safe, for that I find it to be excellent. So being Ive always got a few pounds laying around I naturally tried it in 38 in several differnt loadings, my results were less than desirable, and even got a squib on one load when the gun was brought from a muzzle down position, though it was a pretty light load.

Im not concerned with completely filling the case like trail boss would (my go to for 44 special poppers) but something a little more volumous than titegroup is desired, the numbers stated above, all roughly %50 case filling with bullet is just fine.

And about heat out put, a healthy load of lil'gun in 357 gets the old blue gun toasty in a hurry!
 
Ive read that but not found any of the signs that some people claim to be encountering, like strap cutting. Plan on working up a mag load with 296/h110/2400 soon anyway.
 
It's not the flame cutting that concerns me, it's how it eats the barrel.

The "claim" was best documented by Freedom Arms, and they make finer revolvers than any revolver I own. I trust their judgement.
 
Personally, I have used most powders for 38spl, and in MY guns, 4.5 Universal with a 158 LSWC seems to give me the best overall accuracy at basic 38 spl levels. IIRC, ~4.7 gets you into +P
 
I use a -lot- of Universal in 9mm and I'll remain a big fan of that powder but my experience with Universal in .38 was not good. I was getting noticeable amount of unburnt powder flakes. Typically, advice for this situation is either "advance the load, stuffen it & you'll get less" and also "who cares, no big deal, ignore it"

I won't say both are bad advice, really, but what I experienced was a powder flake under the ejector star of a S&W K-frame and if you haven't experienced this, it may be difficult to understand why it sounds like I am making a mountain out of a mole hill, but even a tiny bit of foreign matter in this place on a S&W might radically change your perception.

If Universal was all I had, I'm sure I could succeed in the long run and I would choose Universal over Titegroup (and Blue Dot, yuck) but for me, back home with Bullseye was the perfect answer.
 
I shot tens of thousands of 158 LRN LSWC and 3.5 grains Bullseye in 38 Special revolvers. This equals factory non +P rounds. It also shoots well in the 357 Magnum. It can be bumped up but I don't recommend trying to magnumize Bullseye. It works best at standard pressures and velocities.

I did include one bunny fart load, the 148 LSWC target load. This is a classic Bullseye load, tons of Bullseye powder have been blown out the barrel, 2.7 grs at at time.


Code: 
   [B]Smith and Wesson M66-2 4" barrel[/B]


148gr LBBWC 2.7 grs Bullseye CCI 500 primers
17-Oct-93 T = 65-70°F				
Ave Vel =	704	fps		
Std Dev =	18			
ES =	57	 		
High  =	742			
Low  =	685			
N =	6			
				
					
Zero  Factory 158gr LSWC-HP + P	16-Aug-92   T = 75°F
Ave Vel =	877	fps	 		 
Std Dev =	23		 		
ES	77		 		
High	923		 		
Low	846		 		
N =	6		 	
				 	

			 	
158gr LSWC 3.5 grs Bullseye CCI 500 primers, Dillon Loads17-Oct-93 T = 65-70°F
Ave Vel =	764	fps			 
Std Dev =	13				
ES	40				
High	776			
Low	736				
N =	6			
					
158gr LSWC 3.75 grs Bullseye CCI 500 primers, Dillon Loads 17-Oct-93 T = 65-70°F
Ave Vel =	779	fps			 
Std Dev =	19			
ES	61				
High	819			 	
Low	758				
N =	6			
					
[B]Colt Python  Stainless Steel, 6" Barrel	[/B]		
					
148 gr LBBWC 2.7 grs Bullseye  38 SPL cases  CCI500  24 Sept 1999  T =  78  F
Ave Vel =	710		 	 	 
Std Dev =	18		 	 	 
ES	72.02		 	 	 
High	746.1		 	 	 
Low	674		 	 	 
N =	33	shot fine at 25 yards, no leading, light recoil
					
158 gr LRN  3.5 grs Bullseye 38 SPL cases CCI500  24-Sep-99  T = 78  F
Ave Vel =  771		
Std Dev =	12			 	
ES	35.9			 
High	792.6			 
Low	756.7			 
N =	6

All of my reloads were created on a Dillion 550B, so the charges are thrown. It is typical that the thrown charges show standard deviations less than 20, some close to 10 fps, with thrown Bullseye charges. I have compared the SD's with ball powder, in the 45 ACP, with Bullseye, both thrown, and the Bullseye provides a more consistent velocity spread. I think it is intuitive, the idea that better metering produces more consistent pressures/velocity. But, based on what I have seen over the chronograph, I have gotten better SD's and ES's with thrown stick powders than ball powders in rifle cartridges, leading me to the conclusion, that better metering is not necessarily correlated with velocity consistency. At least, you have to test it before you can claim that you got tighter velocity spreads with a better metering powder. Until such time, that you actually test your ammunition over a chronograph, you have made an untested assumption, based only on your biases and intuition, which are often wrong.
 
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Bullseye is a very popular powder, but it doesn't throw very smoothly thru some powder dispensers (such as my Uniflow). So in my case I discontinued using it after the first pound. The OP has used Titegroup and IMR4227, both of which flow well thru my Uniflow. So the OP may want to inquire about the use of Bullseye in the powder dispenser he uses.
 
I load a lot of Unique in revolvers and have been since I was a boy pulling the handle for my dad. The new stuff is a lot cleaner than it used to be.
 
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