Strafer Gott
New member
226 is fine, but a 227 is a .45, and just as easy to shoot.
Your choice of duty sidearm...
- Thread starter ATN082268
- Start date
If it were me?
I'd not consider the comp models (9L/40L). Not for duty use.
Nor would I carry that huge Mare's Leg of the Mk 23 Mod 0.
The FNX Tac .45 hasn't seemingly yet had a lot of opportunity to be T&E'd by a lot of LE/Gov agencies, so I'd pass on that one for the time being.
For the above-listed guns ... let the gun enthusiasts indulge themselves on their own time, for their own reasons.
The Colt Rail Gun? Really? Granted, as a long time 1911 owner & user, and having been through the Colt Model O Pistol armorer class, I could appreciate using one ... bit no, I'd pass on it for a uniformed duty weapon.
Now, the P226 & Gen4 G17 are serviceable duty weapons. I'd have no particular problem being handed either of them.
The revolvers? Well, I started my LE career carrying an issued M66 4" and then a M686 4", so I'd have no particular problem returning to carrying one for duty. The "Plus" model meaning having a 7-rd revolver? Ok. Why not? It would offer 7 rounds over the standard 6 rounds.
However, if it were me, and I was going to choose to carry a personally-owned revolver, I'd probably step up to one of the 8-shot N-frame Scandium aluminum .357 Magnum revolvers. Light, durable and having an 8-shot cylinder. Why not? Gun belts are more like "equipment" belts nowadays, and saving weight can save back & hip discomfort over the course of 8-18 hours shifts.
Why carry a revolver if my agency didn't have a S&W trained revolver armorer, though? (Or, a Ruger revolver armorer, if they still even have LE armorer classes.) I've seen what happens with S&W and Colt revolvers over time as they experience the daily rigors (as well as neglect & abuse) of police work. I'd want an agency armorer on-staff to maintain, service, inspect & repair my revolver (if I wasn't a S&W revolver armorer, and wasn't authorized to use those skills by my employing agency).
I carried several Ruger Security/Speed/Service-Sixes as off-duty weapons over the years, too, so I'm not averse to a good condition Ruger DA revolver being carried. i'd want a revolver armorer to handle service and sign off on maintenance and serviceability, though.
In the end, hopwever, I'd much prefer to take something issued by the agency, instead of carrying a personally-owned weapon.
I realize a lot of gun enthusiasts who daydream about picking their own version of the "perfect" duty weapon will disagree. Even some gun enthusiasts who are working LE may disagree (especially if they "dislike" whatever they're issued ).
I'll even grant that as a much younger cop, firearms instructor & armorer I used to disagree with my current opinion about such things.
It's just that in the long run, it's just a gun. Learn to run the gun you're given. (Yes, some occasional disparate impact circumstances may require an alternative weapon being made available to some folks.)
I wouldn't want to use my own car for Patrol, and that's a piece of safety equipment that gets used everyday, and is much more likely to be used under high-stress conditions. I simply learned to use the different assorted motor vehicles they gave me over the years. Did I have preferences? Sure. Did it bother me not to get "my favorite" at different times? Not so much as some might think.
If an issued duty weapon gets damaged, lost, stolen, rendered inoperative & requiring repair, etc ... or gets taken into property/evidence after being used in a shooting, awaiting the outcome of the criminal and civil proceedings ... they'd give me another one that looks just like it.
So ... whatever's being issued? Give me one. If I wasn't one of the trained & authorized armorers who could support whatever was being issued? I'd get to know one and make sure my issued weapon was always in normal, good condition. .
Then I'd be investing as much time in developing & maintaining my skillset with it as possible.
I'd not consider the comp models (9L/40L). Not for duty use.
Nor would I carry that huge Mare's Leg of the Mk 23 Mod 0.
The FNX Tac .45 hasn't seemingly yet had a lot of opportunity to be T&E'd by a lot of LE/Gov agencies, so I'd pass on that one for the time being.
For the above-listed guns ... let the gun enthusiasts indulge themselves on their own time, for their own reasons.
The Colt Rail Gun? Really? Granted, as a long time 1911 owner & user, and having been through the Colt Model O Pistol armorer class, I could appreciate using one ... bit no, I'd pass on it for a uniformed duty weapon.
Now, the P226 & Gen4 G17 are serviceable duty weapons. I'd have no particular problem being handed either of them.
The revolvers? Well, I started my LE career carrying an issued M66 4" and then a M686 4", so I'd have no particular problem returning to carrying one for duty. The "Plus" model meaning having a 7-rd revolver? Ok. Why not? It would offer 7 rounds over the standard 6 rounds.
However, if it were me, and I was going to choose to carry a personally-owned revolver, I'd probably step up to one of the 8-shot N-frame Scandium aluminum .357 Magnum revolvers. Light, durable and having an 8-shot cylinder. Why not? Gun belts are more like "equipment" belts nowadays, and saving weight can save back & hip discomfort over the course of 8-18 hours shifts.
Why carry a revolver if my agency didn't have a S&W trained revolver armorer, though? (Or, a Ruger revolver armorer, if they still even have LE armorer classes.) I've seen what happens with S&W and Colt revolvers over time as they experience the daily rigors (as well as neglect & abuse) of police work. I'd want an agency armorer on-staff to maintain, service, inspect & repair my revolver (if I wasn't a S&W revolver armorer, and wasn't authorized to use those skills by my employing agency).
I carried several Ruger Security/Speed/Service-Sixes as off-duty weapons over the years, too, so I'm not averse to a good condition Ruger DA revolver being carried. i'd want a revolver armorer to handle service and sign off on maintenance and serviceability, though.
In the end, hopwever, I'd much prefer to take something issued by the agency, instead of carrying a personally-owned weapon.
I realize a lot of gun enthusiasts who daydream about picking their own version of the "perfect" duty weapon will disagree. Even some gun enthusiasts who are working LE may disagree (especially if they "dislike" whatever they're issued
).I'll even grant that as a much younger cop, firearms instructor & armorer I used to disagree with my current opinion about such things.
It's just that in the long run, it's just a gun. Learn to run the gun you're given. (Yes, some occasional disparate impact circumstances may require an alternative weapon being made available to some folks.)
I wouldn't want to use my own car for Patrol, and that's a piece of safety equipment that gets used everyday, and is much more likely to be used under high-stress conditions. I simply learned to use the different assorted motor vehicles they gave me over the years. Did I have preferences? Sure. Did it bother me not to get "my favorite" at different times? Not so much as some might think.
If an issued duty weapon gets damaged, lost, stolen, rendered inoperative & requiring repair, etc ... or gets taken into property/evidence after being used in a shooting, awaiting the outcome of the criminal and civil proceedings ... they'd give me another one that looks just like it.
So ... whatever's being issued? Give me one. If I wasn't one of the trained & authorized armorers who could support whatever was being issued? I'd get to know one and make sure my issued weapon was always in normal, good condition. .
Then I'd be investing as much time in developing & maintaining my skillset with it as possible.
2014 duty weapons....
I disagree with some of the recent posts.
A comped or target/extended barrel semi-auto pistol like a M&P/FNS/Glock/XDm etc could be a decent duty sidearm. The size & weight might be a problem for 8/10/12 hour duty shifts but it's not impossible.
Id also not consider a 6/7 shot .357magnum or .44spl/.44magnum DA revolver ideal either. The calibers are powerful but, in 2014, a duty type semi-auto pistol is far more practical than a revolver. To carry 18 .38spl/.357magnum rounds vs 34-51 rounds of 9x19mm or .40S&W or .357sig is no real question.
Some "old salts" may say; "you only need 6 for sure" but these revolvers are not good for duty in 2014.
I disagree with some of the recent posts.
A comped or target/extended barrel semi-auto pistol like a M&P/FNS/Glock/XDm etc could be a decent duty sidearm. The size & weight might be a problem for 8/10/12 hour duty shifts but it's not impossible.
Id also not consider a 6/7 shot .357magnum or .44spl/.44magnum DA revolver ideal either. The calibers are powerful but, in 2014, a duty type semi-auto pistol is far more practical than a revolver. To carry 18 .38spl/.357magnum rounds vs 34-51 rounds of 9x19mm or .40S&W or .357sig is no real question.
Some "old salts" may say; "you only need 6 for sure" but these revolvers are not good for duty in 2014.
It's not whether it could or couldn't. It's whether someone would consider the merits regarding the pro's & con's and decide it was a better choice or compromise.
The overlong barrels and slides weren't the primary reason I wouldn't select a pistol model as a personally-owned duty weapon that wasn't originally offered as such by the gun maker. Granted, the days when we could get away from the 5"-6"+ duty revolvers made wearing them holstered a lot easier, as well as when sitting in cars and chairs. Shorter is better when you have to carry it for hours on end.
My hesitation would be in choosing something that deviated from what the gun company, and probably the agency, commonly considered to be service/duty weapons. This might attract some unwanted & unnecessary attention which is of arguable practical value when it comes to working guns that are going to have to withstand scrutiny by the public at some point.
Also, why risk having to get sidetracked during some court proceeding trying to explain why a target/comp pistol was selected, especially if it involved the use of a lighter trigger than the equivalent duty model pistol? Isn't the gun company's offered duty pistol sufficient for it intended role?
Yes, no & maybe.
The practicality of pistols that use magazines, versus DA revolvers that require the loading of cylinder charge holes, has been well accepted.
The capacity of the magazine-fed pistols is something that's still a subject often debated, though. The folks who like single stack .45's are just as fervent and strong in their perception of the advantages of low-cap .45's, because of the caliber, as the folks who look at sheer capacity as being the most critical consideration. Pick a "side" ... or stand squarely in the middle of the capacity "debate" ... and pick whatever suits your fancy.
Power? Really? That's so ... 80's.
It's a handgun, and it's chambered in one of the relatively low-powered service cartridges in common use nowadays.
You're right, though. It's 'no real question' when it comes to service weapons. It's still the mindset, skillset, training & experience of the equipment user that overshadows the minor details of the tools, themselves.
I wasn't advocating the return of the service revolver, and for a couple of reasons.
Firstly, it takes a lot more training & practice for a handgunner to be able to confidently, safely, accurately & effectively shoot a DA revolver. Pistols are generally easier equipment on which to train new shooters. Lighter triggers, better grip angles (compared to plow-share handled revolver frames and fat, sometimes awkward shaped grip stocks), generally better sights, lighter weight, less recoil (than Magnum calibers), etc.
No fumbling with bullet loops, dump pouches, speedloaders or speedstrips, either. No cylinder to swing out and hold in the fully open position while loading.
Secondly, being a pistol armorer is a lot easier and simpler than being a revolver armorer.
All of that said, though, I do miss the days when LE shooters learned their skills on DA revolvers. They generally made better all-around handgunners once they mastered the awkwardness of the grips and the heavier DA trigger pulls.
Since this topic is seemingly about what everyone may want to choose for themselves, though, it's not like anything other than personal preference, for whatever reason(s), is needed to make a selection.
At the end of the day, it's still just a service/duty handgun.
I'll offer one last bit of perspective, though.
If I had to choose a partner to make an entry through that looming dark & unknown doorway, and all we had were the duty guns hanging on our gun belts ... I'd always choose experience of person over the type of handgun he/she may be carrying. So, yes, I'd pick the experienced revolver carrier, who's BTDT, over the inexperienced person carrying 10 lbs of Velcro, 75 rounds of the latest gee-whiz ammo in a lunch box belt carrier, and the latest wonder pistol with threaded barrel, pop-up tactical displays and rader absorbing finish.
Equipment is just ... equipment.
Best, better, practical & sufficient ... are all words that require situational context and some further reference.
Yep, not always as much fun as many non-LE folks might suspect, or at least might like to think.
I remember one of the times another round of T&E for possible new weapons was getting underway. I knew there were some folks at the decision-making level who were going to be leaning in opposite directions, and I'd tired of getting pulled hither and yon.
As I started being asked what I thought would be "best", I started telling everyone that all the potential selections that had ended up on the list of candidate weapons were just fine with me. Pick whatever they liked. As long as I had the training & tools to inspect, support, service & repair them, I didn't care what they chose.
Sure, as the representative panel of review shooters started trying all the guns, the other instructors & armorers and myself were present and available to help with the test-fire and answer all operational & usage questions, but I carefully steered clear of expressing (and being suckered into hinting at) anything in the way of showing favoritism toward any one caliber of make/model.
Of course, being given the budget and enough time for transition training to whatever would eventually be chosen was a headache for another day.
I've sometimes suspected there's an administrative formula used where whatever money & time is requested for transition & training tasks is reduced by 3/4's. That's all well and good, if you know it's coming and can adapt to it, until one day when they unexpectedly actually give you your first proposal. 
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Deaf Smith
New member
Glock.
A Glock in whatever flavor the department mandates.
Deaf
A Glock in whatever flavor the department mandates.
Deaf
Equipment or procurement....
It's not a 1980s or 1990s argument over revolvers vs semi-autos in 2014.
It's pretty much done.
A .40S&W or .357sig with 34-51 available duty rounds(more if you consider a second gun or back-up) isn't going to be inferior to a DA revolver with 18-24 duty rounds(even with a .38/.357 5-6 snub back up).
Even a .45acp duty pistol can now be had with high-cap magazines, .
A armed officer could shoot like Jerry Miuleck with DA revolvers & Id still pick a .40 or .45acp duty pistol.
It's not a 1980s or 1990s argument over revolvers vs semi-autos in 2014.
It's pretty much done.
A .40S&W or .357sig with 34-51 available duty rounds(more if you consider a second gun or back-up) isn't going to be inferior to a DA revolver with 18-24 duty rounds(even with a .38/.357 5-6 snub back up).
Even a .45acp duty pistol can now be had with high-cap magazines,
.A armed officer could shoot like Jerry Miuleck with DA revolvers & Id still pick a .40 or .45acp duty pistol.
LEO's point their guns at people whom they are not ready to shoot all the time. In my experience, this is best done with a handgun that offers a DA first shot.
None of us are perfect, and fatigue, stress, darkness, just plain having a bad day can greatly affect our performance. The extra margin of safety that a DA pull provides can be a life saver in circumstances where there is no room for an error.
SA pistols like 1911's are best left to that tiny percentage of guys who possess and maintain expert skills. I carried one for a while, but even with regular training I decided I didn't like pointing it at people who I probably wasn't going to shoot. Life in the field is altogether different from life on a square range, or on the internoogie, and as Dirty Harry said, "A man's got to know his limitations!"
I used a SIG P226 for many years. Mine were 9 mm.'s, but if I were doing it today it would be a .40 S&W. Totally reliable, I could shoot it very accurately, and regular training made the DA/SA transition pretty manageable.
None of us are perfect, and fatigue, stress, darkness, just plain having a bad day can greatly affect our performance. The extra margin of safety that a DA pull provides can be a life saver in circumstances where there is no room for an error.
SA pistols like 1911's are best left to that tiny percentage of guys who possess and maintain expert skills. I carried one for a while, but even with regular training I decided I didn't like pointing it at people who I probably wasn't going to shoot. Life in the field is altogether different from life on a square range, or on the internoogie, and as Dirty Harry said, "A man's got to know his limitations!"
I used a SIG P226 for many years. Mine were 9 mm.'s, but if I were doing it today it would be a .40 S&W. Totally reliable, I could shoot it very accurately, and regular training made the DA/SA transition pretty manageable.
cerberus65
New member
Win!
And that's why of those you listed I'd take the Colt. I'd rather not have a rail on my 1911 but I'd live with it. In real life, a proper 1911 (sans rail) is my duty sidearm.
Can you get your P227 back on target as quickly as you can with a P226? I dont think I can.
I will take my P226 over a P227 any day of the week and twice on Sunday. The 10-round mag capacity of the P227 isn't much of an improvement over the 8-round mag capacity of the P220. I prefer the 18-round P226 mag in my P226.
