Your Best Arguments and Talking Points against Anti-gunners and Fence-Sitters
- Thread starter ReadyOnTheRight
- Start date
Drjones
I have the interview on tape. Unfortunately, the exchange took place during the commercial break.
This guy was about 5'7" 140 pounds and they seated him between two guys who were 6'2" and 6'4" and they were both hefty guys. When the program came back from the commercial, the guy was sitting leaning away from my buddy just kinda staring at him. It was after they got back from the interview that he related what had happened on the break.
I have the interview on tape. Unfortunately, the exchange took place during the commercial break.
This guy was about 5'7" 140 pounds and they seated him between two guys who were 6'2" and 6'4" and they were both hefty guys. When the program came back from the commercial, the guy was sitting leaning away from my buddy just kinda staring at him. It was after they got back from the interview that he related what had happened on the break.
With Fence Sitters
I just ask them to come up with the "ultimate" gun law that would remove all the violence and murders, suicides, etc.. in the World. The exception is they cannot just say or write, "ban all guns".
Then, when they come up with their ultimate law, rip holes in it
. Which, is easy to do because they don't take into account Criminals, Knowledge (to make guns and ammo), alternative weapons such as knives, hammers, axes, bats, even hands and feet (not to mention teeth, rope, car exhaust).
Some of them really start to think. Their biggest "fact" is that guns make it easier and more permanent to murder, commit suicide, "reach out and touch" someone from a greater distance. I tell them that the criminals will always have or get guns, look at the UK right now, so the tool may make it easier for them to commit their crimes, but it also allows meself and others to protect themselves at the same distance.
With die hards, you can't get through to them because, as in suicide, it's in the mind and you can't regulate a persons mind. To the die hard, it's the extreme fear of guns, either because they fear their own self and what they may do or just the fear of the tool itself. It's a mental illness and only a professional and meds can help that problem.
Also, people LOVE to be "dared". Dare them to go to the range and fire a .22 rifle and pistol (normal configuaration) and then bring out your "evil" 10/22 with the pistol grip stock and ask them what the difference is between the "normal" 10/22 that they had just fired and enjoyed and the now "evil" 10/22 that you have in your hands. They then realize that it's the same gun, just prettier (the evil black one that is). After a couple of range sessions, with different calibers, in both the original configuaration and in the "evil" config. they just start looking at guns as a tool, just some are in the Kia mode (basic) and others are built into a BMW mode (the adding of cosmestics to make it look better).
Wayne
I just ask them to come up with the "ultimate" gun law that would remove all the violence and murders, suicides, etc.. in the World. The exception is they cannot just say or write, "ban all guns".
Then, when they come up with their ultimate law, rip holes in it
. Which, is easy to do because they don't take into account Criminals, Knowledge (to make guns and ammo), alternative weapons such as knives, hammers, axes, bats, even hands and feet (not to mention teeth, rope, car exhaust).Some of them really start to think. Their biggest "fact" is that guns make it easier and more permanent to murder, commit suicide, "reach out and touch" someone from a greater distance. I tell them that the criminals will always have or get guns, look at the UK right now, so the tool may make it easier for them to commit their crimes, but it also allows meself and others to protect themselves at the same distance.
With die hards, you can't get through to them because, as in suicide, it's in the mind and you can't regulate a persons mind. To the die hard, it's the extreme fear of guns, either because they fear their own self and what they may do or just the fear of the tool itself. It's a mental illness and only a professional and meds can help that problem.
Also, people LOVE to be "dared". Dare them to go to the range and fire a .22 rifle and pistol (normal configuaration) and then bring out your "evil" 10/22 with the pistol grip stock and ask them what the difference is between the "normal" 10/22 that they had just fired and enjoyed and the now "evil" 10/22 that you have in your hands. They then realize that it's the same gun, just prettier
(the evil black one that is). After a couple of range sessions, with different calibers, in both the original configuaration and in the "evil" config. they just start looking at guns as a tool, just some are in the Kia mode (basic) and others are built into a BMW mode (the adding of cosmestics to make it look better).Wayne
My latest method is to shut up.
I bought a slew of Innocents Betrayed and sent to folks. I also had some excellent works and references provided from TFL and THR I had put on a USB Flashdrive. I printed these ( sans members names) with the links to documented references.
Please review with an open mind. Documentation and references provided for your review. Watch the Documentary, and read the enclosed material. Consider both sides of the matter with brutal honesty. Stay with what is in heart, soul and mind as the truth. Not necessary to return, I would prefer these shared with others in your family, business, school envioroment. -Steve
So far so good. Perhaps there is something to this More is said with a closed mouth
I bought a slew of Innocents Betrayed and sent to folks. I also had some excellent works and references provided from TFL and THR I had put on a USB Flashdrive. I printed these ( sans members names) with the links to documented references.
Please review with an open mind. Documentation and references provided for your review. Watch the Documentary, and read the enclosed material. Consider both sides of the matter with brutal honesty. Stay with what is in heart, soul and mind as the truth. Not necessary to return, I would prefer these shared with others in your family, business, school envioroment. -Steve
So far so good. Perhaps there is something to this More is said with a closed mouth
TheBluesMan
Moderator Emeritus
Steve,
With tactics like that, you say more with your mouth closed than most people do flapping their jaws all day.
Good job.
-Dave
With tactics like that, you say more with your mouth closed than most people do flapping their jaws all day.
Good job.
-Dave
If you really want to see a deer in the headlights look simply tell them this:
In the end, the firearms debate will descend to this: The number of Americans willing to die to keep their firearms versus the number of Americans the government is willing to kill to take them away.
In the end, the firearms debate will descend to this: The number of Americans willing to die to keep their firearms versus the number of Americans the government is willing to kill to take them away.
Good to see this thread resurrected. If ...... and it is often a big IF .... you can penetrate the emotional fog of anti-ism ...... and reach below to the logical areas .. it is surprising what can be achieved.
Of course as ever ... the media makes it way harder for us to do.
Of course as ever ... the media makes it way harder for us to do.
ReadyOnTheRight
New member
I'm very happy you guys revived this thread. I had hoped to collect some good arguments for future TFL surfers perusing the old posts.
I've found that I can hit folks with arguments and talking points pretty well, but it usually takes some time to sink in and reverse the damage done by years and years of network news, local news, sitcoms, dramas and movies.
I think the most difficult audience is the once-a-year hunter who thinks the AWB is O.K. Has anyone had success turning a hunter who thinks "They'll never take away my 30-06, but Assault Weapons Should Be Banned"? If so, how did you do it?
I've found that I can hit folks with arguments and talking points pretty well, but it usually takes some time to sink in and reverse the damage done by years and years of network news, local news, sitcoms, dramas and movies.
I think the most difficult audience is the once-a-year hunter who thinks the AWB is O.K. Has anyone had success turning a hunter who thinks "They'll never take away my 30-06, but Assault Weapons Should Be Banned"? If so, how did you do it?
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
Generally, a neutral or fence-sitter is more prone toa ctually think about the points of an argument that a full-blown anti; the latter is commonly operating on emotions alone.
So, with the neutrals, I make the point that I've not been sued nor have I had a house burn down--but I've paid homeowner's insurance premiums for many years. I've never needed the liability insurance coverage on my autos, but I've paid those premium for many years.
A self-defense firearm is just another form of insurance for an event which is rare. "Is the adage, 'It's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it,' totally fallacious?"
I know I've made a "hit" when I get the oh-so-common response, "I never thought about it like that."
, Art
So, with the neutrals, I make the point that I've not been sued nor have I had a house burn down--but I've paid homeowner's insurance premiums for many years. I've never needed the liability insurance coverage on my autos, but I've paid those premium for many years.
A self-defense firearm is just another form of insurance for an event which is rare. "Is the adage, 'It's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it,' totally fallacious?"
I know I've made a "hit" when I get the oh-so-common response, "I never thought about it like that."
, Art
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I'm morally obligated by my philosophy to slag it out with the diehard antis... and, believe me, I think I just saw my first gray hair in the bathroom mirror, and I'm only 20. ;-) Most of the time, when I've invalidated every single one of their arguments, they'll stop responding to me, basically take their toys and go home, and then keep on repeating the same invalidated arguments to other people at a later date. Amazing to behold.
Treylis
My daughter's first son got his first grey hair at six-years-old and her second son, who has just turned three, already has one. Their father was completely grey by the age of eighteen as was his father and his father before him.
It was a bit of a shock when my daughter showed up with a grey-haired man when we first met him.
My daughter's first son got his first grey hair at six-years-old and her second son, who has just turned three, already has one. Their father was completely grey by the age of eighteen as was his father and his father before him.
It was a bit of a shock when my daughter showed up with a grey-haired man when we first met him.
Sad For Y'all
Wow those must be some seriously feeble-minded liberals all of you are talking to if you just need to harass them with a few predictable "factoids" and "obvious" half-truths to change their minds. I'm a big fan of sharing an opinion too, but some of these "talking-points" and the strategies behind their delivery are awful reminiscent of the kind of logic you hear from the creepy Christians who come pounding on my front door every Saturday morning...
Wow those must be some seriously feeble-minded liberals all of you are talking to if you just need to harass them with a few predictable "factoids" and "obvious" half-truths to change their minds. I'm a big fan of sharing an opinion too, but some of these "talking-points" and the strategies behind their delivery are awful reminiscent of the kind of logic you hear from the creepy Christians who come pounding on my front door every Saturday morning...
Michigander
New member
Yes, many liberals are feeble-minded.
As for "predictable factoids," they must not be that predictable if the liberals don't even acknowledge the facts.
As for "half-truths," would you care to point out which statements in this thread are "half-truths"?
xer, would you care to elaborate on the "kind of logic" your local "creepy Christians" speak that compares to facts concerning firearms?
Thanks, in advance
xer
Welcome to THR. If you came looking for a fight/debate/argument/a-- kickin'/companionship/conversation/peers/information or just to hang out with the finest bunch of people on the whole damned Internet, you've come to the right place.
BTW, answer the door naked some Saturday morning. I think you might see the end of the "creepy Christians" because they won't want to come back to the house that the "creepy naked guy" lives in.
Welcome to THR. If you came looking for a fight/debate/argument/a-- kickin'/companionship/conversation/peers/information or just to hang out with the finest bunch of people on the whole damned Internet, you've come to the right place.
BTW, answer the door naked some Saturday morning. I think you might see the end of the "creepy Christians" because they won't want to come back to the house that the "creepy naked guy" lives in.
ok, that's meaningless, but i was a bit obnoxious in my first post (sorry) so i guess thats fair.
that's why I had the quotes around it, to indicate disbelief or sarcasm.
I'd have a much harder time pointing out empirical evidence cited in this thread ... I'm not saying that I'm any better with my liberal beliefs, but at least I am willing to admit that in large part the issue of gun control is subjective and not as obvious as both liberals AND conservatives continually insist. Michiganger, do you think that felons should be allowed to own guns?? Should kids be allowed to buy bullets?? No?? Well guess what -- you believe in gun control. Laws against murder won't stop the lawbreakers ... so should we go ahead and abolish THEM too ?? If I had a dollar for everytime someone in this thread alone re-stated an OPINION as an obvious fact that one would be stupid (or "mentally ill") to to disagree with ... well, then, I'd be retiring a few years early.
Again, I'd question the use of your word "fact" but that's not the point -- I am talking about the similarities between these strategies and arguments, and those employed by evangelical Christians.
Apparently there are great numbers of us ignorant, brainwashed tools of Satan (ie the Democratic Party) just bobbing along out here waiting for the truth to set us free. I know, I know -- liberals are arrogant too ... it just seems to me that the only place you ever hear terms like "talking points" and "people have to get to the truth on their own" are in religious groups or political organizations -- in other words, in places where people are being persuaded to stop thinking for themselves and start swallowing the party line.
Michigander
New member
Assuming he/she has paid his/her debt and has been released via due process, then yes. The act of a previously convicted felon owning guns harms no one.
Yes. The act of a child buying bullets harms no one.
NO. I DO NOT BELIEVE IN GUN CONTROL!
You know, for someone who admonishes others for trying to make people "swallow the party line," answering questions for others, or at the least assuming you know their answers already, seems quite arrogant to me.
No. The act of murder harms some one.