you might want to read and think about the article at the link

This weekend, the county (I'm in Ga.) has a roadcheck set up roughly a mile from the "detention center" (more PC than jail, I guess). They load up a car with "perps" and take them to the detention center, looks like a shuttle service, a constant stream of traffic. Most of the locals have become adept at avoiding the roadblocks, but they're cleaning up on travelers.
When they have a "multi-jurisdictional" roadblock, the state, county, wildlife service i.e. Game and Fish, and the "drug task force" participate directly, with Nat'l Guard choppers flying overhead. There's a "portable processing center"(looks like a camper with decals and black paint on it) to quickly bleed the less egregious offenders and get them out of the way. A Fatherlan..uh, I mean a "Homeland Security" wet dream.


badbob
 

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http://www.policeaccountability.org/appendix.htm

Enough for you?


And this on K-9 searches.

http://www.nacdl.org/public.nsf/01c...82ad3c4d4653636b8525716300527c5e?OpenDocument


The fact is , my statements are ancedotal evidence, but you really do need to read between the lines.
I can make my dogs go into a defensive posture by using a discrete hand signal. I have heard officers in the past state that they train their dogs in much the same manner.{as to alerts}
If I am to be banned for pointing this out so be it.
 
Just an observation: It sure seems that the Law Enforcement Community has become more para-military in the last few decades?Or is it just my imagination? :confused:
 
I think folks are overlooking something important, with regard to a handler signaling his dog to "alert" on a vehicle.

If you're a handler with a "drug sniffing dog" and that dog alerts on MY truck or my mother's car, then the subsequent search reveals nothing... or even reveals an illegally carried weapon (for example), this will show as a "false hit" by the dog. Too many of these and the dog's credibility gets trashed. And these dogs are not inexpensive to obtain either.

As I recall, most drug dogs are trained to either sit or to paw-at the location where they detect drugs, not bark. Cap'n Charlie or others can correct me if this is incorrect.

The article on the cops searching a vehicle is certainly disturbing and, I think, more of an indictment of the screening and training process than anything. Bad cops always show up from time to time. In my view, any time a police officer resorts to threats when someone knows their rights, they are not a "good cop" (e.g. "May I search your trunk, sir?" "Only if you have a warrant officer." "Do you want to spend the night in jail?") Good cops may go on "fishing expeditions" when their experience tells them there may be something amiss, but they still stay within the law.

In the example given, the presence of a book or magazine called "Gun Bible" or "Guns Digest" is not even reasonable suspicion to presume that a firearm exists in the vehicle or that the operator has committed any offense. Using that as a basis for a search would be similar to suspecting the person of having illegal prescription drugs based upon seeing an AARP Medicare-RX Plan booklet on the front seat.
 
BerettaMan, I have covered some of these in earlier posts on different threads, but I will try to answer your question:

Yes, we have turned to a more paramilitary model.

Why?

The different faces of criminal behavior demanded the change.

When I grew up, the cops I saw had on their uniform, and carried a revolver--frequently a Smith Model 10, although some Colts could be seen--a pair of handcuffs, a nightstick and a sap, 12 rounds for reloads--and not much else.

This was before cops started being killed at alarming rates.

The reasons that were found were that criminals ceased fearing the enforcement of the law. They tended, as a whole, to be more confrontational, more violent, and more prone to fight.

For a prime example of a shifting point in the disparity between the armed criminal and law enforcement, look up the "Norco" bank robbery in California. There, you will find the account of law enforcement officers taking on armed robbers.

The cops in this incident were armed with six shot revolvers and pump shotguns. The criminals were armed with an AR-15, a HK 91, other firearms and LOTS of ammunition.

Another factor was the widespread consumption of drugs that affected the mood and disposition of the user.

It was also found that prisons became training academies for criminals bent on committing violent crime. More than one video I have witnessed shows convicts training on how to disarm and kill police officers.

As a result, the police adapted tactics to increase the chances of the officer coming home safe at the end of their shift. Body armor became mandated for wear. Revolvers gradually became replaced by semiautomatic handguns. The Class B uniform, at one time the mandatory uniform of the day, became replaced with BDU trousers or jumpsuits.

As the likelihood of meeting armed resistance from criminals increased, so did the amount of firepower that was available to the law enforcement officer.

My patrol jurisdiction consists of a fairly large urban area, water patrol, and suburban and rural patrol. What kind of calls do I handle?

I responded to:

A call of a man hanging out of a window on a crowded street, threatening passers-by with an SKS rifle.

A communicated threat by a juvenile gang member who was known to have a folding-stock semiautomatic rifle, saying that his target of choice was going to be police officers.

A man holed up in a trailer, who had allegedly fired shots into the ground during a dispute.

Two cars full of gangbangers, exchanging gunfire from two cars on a city street.

Yes, we have become more paramilitary in nature--but only in response to the threat presented to the public by those who would wantonly break the law.
 
This has nothing to do with law enforcement and everything to do with COURTS. The blame lies with courts handing down orders from above that allow or even command law enforcement to do these things. They give them the authority. Stop the activist courts, stop the problem.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoji
You know that officers will let a pretty speeder go for "favors". Just because YOU have not seen it happen does not mean it does not go on.

And yet another assertion without any facts.


To say this after I posted the link
http://www.policeaccountability.org/appendix.htm
Is akin to saying Hitler did not kill Jews, it is just not the case.
I have related my PERSONAL experience with K-9 handlers.I have no reason to believe the officers are lying.

What are the reported rape statistics in the U.S.? about 10%?
Then the link I provided is just the tip of an enormous iceberg.

Me thinks the officer doth protest too much:rolleyes:
 
Hoji, the two url's you provided do not bolster your case.

First, the policeaccountability.org site has less than a hundred newspaper cites over an 11 year span in support of your contention that officers seek "favors." All this proves is that like in any profession, there are some bad folks. It doesn't prove that most or even many officers exhibit this type of behavior. I know, you didn't say "most" or "many." But the statement: "You know that officers will let a pretty speeder go for "favors"." infers that it is more widespread than your url makes it out to be.

So yes, it is an assertion without facts.

Next, from your K-9 url: "While courts have recognized the potentially pernicious effects of cuing, the ability of defendants to establish that cuing occurred has proven elusive."

This proves what? Add to this that your url on K-9 searches is an article written by a criminal defense attorney for other criminal defense attorneys in a criminal defense attorney newsletter... Well, let's be polite and say it also is not evidence.

As I said hoji, it is not enough.

Then you go and post again, by saying, "To say this after I posted the link..." Wrong again. I said what you quoted well before you posted any links. Anything you have to say after this is meaningless, because your referent is false.

And finally, you say, "Me thinks the officer doth protest too much"

You simply haven't been paying attention, have you? At no time in any post I have made in this thread or any other thread, have I ever claimed to be a LEO. So let me make this as clear as I know how: I am not now, nor have I ever been in Law Enforcement in any capacity.

Now, I have to ask, what has all this to do with the militarization of the police? The answer is obvious... Nothing.

I've permitted this much leeway, hoji. But no more. You want to post on this subject again, then start a new thread, keeping in mind that it must relate to some specific legal or political issue that affects everyone, nationwide. Structure your new thread in that manner.

Now, shall we get back on topic?
 
Why aren't the "good cops" actively policing the "bad cops"? It would seem to be a wiw-win for everybody, except the bad cops of course. Do away with "the thin blue line" and respect for law enforcement would go up exponentially. IMOH.

badbob
 
Powderman said:
The cops in this incident were armed with six shot revolvers and pump shotguns. The criminals were armed with an AR-15, a HK 91, other firearms and LOTS of ammunition.
It was a tiny town. Would you expect every sheriff's dept. in the country to be equipped with rifles in 1980? A criminal gang can always get more and better weapons than the police can get on short notice. Give the police FALs, and criminals can still procure grenades and rocket launchers if they're well organized enough.

I totally agree that LE "militarization" is driven by increasing threats. What's missing from the equation seems to be a decrease in actual violent shootouts that all these militarization measures are designed to combat. What good is police militarization against psychotic office workers shooting up their former workplace, or psychotic students shooting their classmates? LE never has a problem swarming the area with LEOs after it's clear that something bad is going on. And the militarization efforts don't seem to help the last (or is it first) mile. Where's the training that a LEO needs to hit a VC with a rifle from 150 yds away? Only one LEO in a generation might ever need to do something like that, but those are the kinds of skills that, IMHO, would prevent history from being made by some psychotic jackass who would otherwise end up killing 5 people over the course of a botched, prolonged getaway chase.

Things have changed in some ways; cops and deputies today should have handguns, shotguns, and rifles available to them... and for the most part, they do. However, there have always been gunfights and there will always be gunfights until/unless something replaces guns as an effective fight-stopper. LE almost never loses fights, but there will continue to be some where the cost in casualties is high. There's also only so much that can be done on the LE side. You can't have officers walking around in Dragon Skin all day, even if the departments could fund that, because the officers would quit.

(this is a fairly interesting, but quite limited, list of historical shootouts: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shootout )

Another factor was the widespread consumption of drugs that affected the mood and disposition of the user.
Millions of people take all sorts of drugs without robbing banks and shooting at people. Why not turn that around? Maybe if drugs were legal, the Columbine killers would have been too busy getting high (on coke or heroin or something, not PCP or Meth) to go on a psychotic rampage.

I just don't care anymore whether cops are giving dogs hand signals, or whether there are drug dogs sniffing cars at DUI checkpoints. Those are mere artifacts of the flailing about of Law Enforcement as they try to do something about the "drug problem."

Society has simply run off its tracks. It's easy to blame cops or the courts or Federal Congress or state legislatures for drug laws, but a majority of the people want some sorts of drugs banned. They don't care about the Federal or State Constitutions; they don't care about the disparity in banning drugs legislatively when banning alcohol required a constitutional amendment. Principles don't seem to matter anymore. Something bad happens to someone, or someone abuses drugs, and all of a sudden some of his/her friends/relatives go on a crusade -- not to help the person in question, necessarily, but to "help" all the other people that the friends/relatives imagine must be having the same sorts of problems.

Is it any surprise that Congress and the Courts reflect that popular sentiment? The Republican form of government doesn't guarantee rights that are under attack by the majority; it only makes the government slightly resistant to mob rule.
 
TheBluesMan wrote:

Our rights are being usurped a little at a time, my friends. And I don't know what we can do about it.

-------------------

The following might help some. Given that state legislatures and The Congress are the enactors of law, perhaps The People need to pay more attention to the actions of the above mentioned, and vote the bums out of office. If that doesn't help, the replacements proving themselves no better than those they replaced, get rid of them too. Sooner or later, the message might get through.
 
Why aren't the "good cops" actively policing the "bad cops"? It would seem to be a wiw-win for everybody, except the bad cops of course.

We do police our own; trust me.

Here's an example:

Do a search; go to king5.com, and search for Puyallup Tribal Police. You should pull up some recent hits about one of our former officers who decided to play a little hanky-panky while at work.

Not surprisingly, he lost his job.

He has also lost the capability to EVER work in this State in another commissioned or sworn position. He has also been arraigned on charges of unlawful imprisonment (a felony in this State). In short, his life has turned to crap--and will be crap forever. And, rightly so.

I have said this in other posts and other threads, and I'll say it again:

There is NOTHING good cops despise more than a bad cop. The actions of one bad cop smears the reputations of thousands of good officers who want nothing more than to do a good job.

Yes, there is a thin blue line...but you will find that when it comes to cases of police misconduct, there is NO line. If you tarnish your badge, your former fellow cops will come down on you. Hard.
 
The problem is the drug "war" makes it profitable to traffic drugs.
Money is the corrupting factor and whithout help from "officials" much
less would be available.
I know personally of a NC sherrif who made a fortune allowing drugs
to be sold and moved through his county.
He was killed on duty and is considered a hero so his family also cashed in on insurance.
He routinely eliminated the non-paying competition with both good and bad
"planted" busts.
I've heard him joke about how easy it is to drop a gram of coke on the
floor to eliminate a problem.
These kind of problems exist and this is the main reason I'm against the
drug war.
 
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