You know that feeling like you just got ripped off?
- Thread starter Onslaught
- Start date
No.
Those were his mags he was tapping.
If I buy a used rifle from someone, I can sell it with the scope and sling on it, or part it out and nobody so much as whimpers.
He bought a used Glock from an individual, pulled the 15-rounders, put two 10-rounders off the shelf in with it, and probably sold the gun for a tish more than he payed for it. Those mags are his profit. That's capitalism.
(P.S. McDonalds doesn't pay a whole dollar for the soda that goes into a large cup, either.
)Removing a mag from a NIB gun and selling it separately is wrong. Selling the full capacity mags from a used gun is not wrong if the interim owner wants to do that.
If I buy a car, which I plan to resell, and it has some nice Z rated tires on it that will fit my car or that are very valuable. I would have no problem putting some lesser, but still good quality, tires on it before I put it up for sale.
If the dealer had shown the gun with the FC mags, the deal was agreed upon and the mags were magically downgraded when the new owner came to pick up the gun, then that is fraud.
If I buy a car, which I plan to resell, and it has some nice Z rated tires on it that will fit my car or that are very valuable. I would have no problem putting some lesser, but still good quality, tires on it before I put it up for sale.
If the dealer had shown the gun with the FC mags, the deal was agreed upon and the mags were magically downgraded when the new owner came to pick up the gun, then that is fraud.
I just experienced something like this - new gun comes with two 10 rounders. After I drive 70 miles to complete the sale the owner says the 'extra' magazine is $25. I didn't walk out because I had driven 70 miles, couldn't find this gun anywhere else, and could get high-caps for $14 each.
So now he has an 'extra' mag that will probably sit in his inventory for years, and he's lost thousands of dollars in potential sales.
Find some high caps on line for cheaper. Or just tell him you did. Let him know you're looking out for your own interests, just like him.
So now he has an 'extra' mag that will probably sit in his inventory for years, and he's lost thousands of dollars in potential sales.
Find some high caps on line for cheaper. Or just tell him you did. Let him know you're looking out for your own interests, just like him.
NIB guns should come with what was in the box. That's what makes them NIB. I suppose a dealer has the right to sell them however he wants, but I'll take advantage of my right to shop elsewhere if someone's been plundering my NIB gun's contents.
Used/refurbed/pre-owned/trade-in/etcetera, well, caveat emptor, baby.
Used/refurbed/pre-owned/trade-in/etcetera, well, caveat emptor, baby.
I can see both sides..
I've bought my share, and I also put up with a lot of "interesting" individuals coming into the store.
If you think it's such a rip-off, be a true capalist and START YOUR OWN STORE.
You can put up with whining employees, pay taxes, pay horrendous insurance, put up with theft, comply with all the FFL requirements, pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for inventory......
Average cost of doing business in the US is about 16%. Mark-up on new firearms is 10%. You do the math.
I've bought my share, and I also put up with a lot of "interesting" individuals coming into the store.
If you think it's such a rip-off, be a true capalist and START YOUR OWN STORE.
You can put up with whining employees, pay taxes, pay horrendous insurance, put up with theft, comply with all the FFL requirements, pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for inventory......
Average cost of doing business in the US is about 16%. Mark-up on new firearms is 10%. You do the math.
Cavè Canem
New member
Never purchased a gun under those circumstances.
I did however take it in the shorts when I sold my Taurus PT-945 with 3 mags, Glaco Scout IWB holster and custom grips for $300.
I sold it so I could buy my AR-15. I still regret it though. I really did like that gun and sold it for about $200 under what it was worth.
I did however take it in the shorts when I sold my Taurus PT-945 with 3 mags, Glaco Scout IWB holster and custom grips for $300.
I sold it so I could buy my AR-15. I still regret it though. I really did like that gun and sold it for about $200 under what it was worth.
glockorama
New member
For once, I disagree with Tamara. I have heard of this practice of changinging mags or even keeping extra mags and selling the gun with only one mag ("it came in that way", they all say). I have friends that have worked in gunshops and say this goes on all the time. This is why so many knowledgable gun collectors view gunshop owners with a VERY cautious eye (to put it mildly). I think this is misleading and disgraceful business etiquette. I would get my money back and tell him he has lost a customer and your referrals. 
riddleofsteel
New member
I was in a local police supply store about six months ago and I noticed a used Sig P229 in .40 S&W laying in the case. It had about 65% of the black finish worn off of the stainless slide and the alloy frame showed a few nicks here and there. Attached to the grip with a big rubberband was a 12 round hi-cap mag! On closer inspection I found that the mag in the pistol was also a 12 round hi-cap. I spent about 15 to 20 minutes going over the weapon and I found that while it was well worn cosmetically, the internals and mechanical parts showed very little wear. The barrel bore was pristine.
Now the kicker. The price for the pistol and mags was $285.00!! It did not take much math to figure that with two $85.00 mags that any P229, in any condition for that price was a deal. I questioned the price and the owner pointed out the VERY worn apperance of the weapon. I did not have the money but I jerked out the already almost maxed out plastic and bought it.
On the way home I stopped at a stop light and started looking at one of the mags (feeling REAL smug about my killer deal). That is when I noticed the very small stamping "FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT OR MILITARY USE ONLY". Closer inspection revealed the same markings on both mags! Not being a LEO I did a u-turn and shagged it back to the store. The owner appeared to be flabbergasted. I really think that neither one of us I noticed the stampings. It was smaller than usual and on the backstrap of the mag. He took back the two mags and put them under the counter. My question then was what are we going to do here? I bought this pistol thinking I had two pre-ban hi-caps and a used P229. That is when he got an attitude with me and told me:
"I made a mistake selling you those mags. That is true. I will give you your money back for the deal if that is what you want. However, in todays market a pre-ban hi-cap mag for a 229 Sig is rare and sells for $85.00+ each. The pistol is still a good deal at $285.00 and I will throw in two 10 round Sig mags that sell for $39.00 each to replace the LEO only mags I sold you by mistake. Beyond that if you have a gripe take your money and go somewhere else."
In my area it is routine for a dealer to remove hi-cap mags and sellable items from trade in weapons and increase thier profits. As long as the seller does not misrepresent the deal it is buyer beware. Check the deal and if you don't like it don't buy.
Now the kicker. The price for the pistol and mags was $285.00!! It did not take much math to figure that with two $85.00 mags that any P229, in any condition for that price was a deal. I questioned the price and the owner pointed out the VERY worn apperance of the weapon. I did not have the money but I jerked out the already almost maxed out plastic and bought it.
On the way home I stopped at a stop light and started looking at one of the mags (feeling REAL smug about my killer deal). That is when I noticed the very small stamping "FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT OR MILITARY USE ONLY". Closer inspection revealed the same markings on both mags! Not being a LEO I did a u-turn and shagged it back to the store. The owner appeared to be flabbergasted. I really think that neither one of us I noticed the stampings. It was smaller than usual and on the backstrap of the mag. He took back the two mags and put them under the counter. My question then was what are we going to do here? I bought this pistol thinking I had two pre-ban hi-caps and a used P229. That is when he got an attitude with me and told me:
"I made a mistake selling you those mags. That is true. I will give you your money back for the deal if that is what you want. However, in todays market a pre-ban hi-cap mag for a 229 Sig is rare and sells for $85.00+ each. The pistol is still a good deal at $285.00 and I will throw in two 10 round Sig mags that sell for $39.00 each to replace the LEO only mags I sold you by mistake. Beyond that if you have a gripe take your money and go somewhere else."
In my area it is routine for a dealer to remove hi-cap mags and sellable items from trade in weapons and increase thier profits. As long as the seller does not misrepresent the deal it is buyer beware. Check the deal and if you don't like it don't buy.
riddleofsteel
New member
Yeah I thought about that later on. The joke was on him though. What appeared to be a worn out 229 was, in fact, only holster wear. This psitol shoots every bit as good as any new Sig I have ever owned. From a pistol rest it will shoot rifle-like groups with PMC 165 grain FMJ's or Remington 165 grain Golden Sabers. I have shot several groups at 25 yards that put 10 rounds thru the one ragged hole!
I eventually found some pre-ban 12 round mags online for $75.00 each. So even having to replace the mags I have less than $450.00 in a P229 Sig .40 S&W with night sights and with two hi-cap mags. Plus it is a pistol that will out shoot some of my custom high dollar ones. There is something about having a fine pistol with a marginal finish. Kinda like having a good running 4WD truck with no paint. Fun, functional and you don't have to baby it. I never imagined my beater sidearm would be a Sig.
I eventually found some pre-ban 12 round mags online for $75.00 each. So even having to replace the mags I have less than $450.00 in a P229 Sig .40 S&W with night sights and with two hi-cap mags. Plus it is a pistol that will out shoot some of my custom high dollar ones. There is something about having a fine pistol with a marginal finish. Kinda like having a good running 4WD truck with no paint. Fun, functional and you don't have to baby it. I never imagined my beater sidearm would be a Sig.
How the heck come it is a-ok for a private seller to buy a pistol with hi-caps and later sell it however he wants (with or without aforesaid mags); but when a gunshop owner does the same thing, he is abusing his position of trust as some kind of 'guardian of the public weal'?
From now on, will you swear to sell every accessory you get with a gun, treating the whole as an immutable package?
Didn't think so.
Here's a shocker: should I ever decide to sell my G23C, I'm only going to sell it with two 10-round mags, keeping my 13-round one for later use or resale. Come and get me, coppers! You'll never take me alive!
The deal for the pistol was agreed upon with two 10-rounders included at the $400 price. I'm sorry, but complaining about it after the fact is on you, not the owner. Ergo, you did not get ripped off because you are getting exactly the pistol and magazines that you and the shop owner agreed upon at the conclusion of your bargaining.
You didn't get ripped off. Stop feeling like it. You made a reasonable (right at market value) deal for a like-new 1st generation G19. You're getting a great gun at a good price. I fail to see the problem.
If it had been a new gun shipped from the manufacturer and he did that, I might feel a little differently about it. Then again, probably not. So long as both parties are aware of the conditions of the sale prior to agreeing to do business, and those conditions remain the same right through the conclusion of that business, then there shouldn't be any heartache on either side.
You didn't get ripped off. Stop feeling like it. You made a reasonable (right at market value) deal for a like-new 1st generation G19. You're getting a great gun at a good price. I fail to see the problem.
If it had been a new gun shipped from the manufacturer and he did that, I might feel a little differently about it. Then again, probably not. So long as both parties are aware of the conditions of the sale prior to agreeing to do business, and those conditions remain the same right through the conclusion of that business, then there shouldn't be any heartache on either side.
Go back and buy the magazines. He intended to sell them separately, buy them that way.
In this day and age anyone who doesn't practice hi-cap mag management is not keeping up with current events. If I ever sell a handgun which uses hi-caps, I'll give the buyer the option to buy the hi-caps but they aren't part of any package. OR, I might just keep them, knowing how I often kick myself for selling things. Another gun I can buy, hi-caps can't be gotten in CA.
I almost sold my G22 and 4 hi-caps -- instead I bought a G17 upper and 9MM ejector. That's my new 9MM. The 40 upper and mags will hybernate in an ammo can with about 100 rnds of Hydra Shok. Someday I might want to switch back. Maybe next month.
In this day and age anyone who doesn't practice hi-cap mag management is not keeping up with current events. If I ever sell a handgun which uses hi-caps, I'll give the buyer the option to buy the hi-caps but they aren't part of any package. OR, I might just keep them, knowing how I often kick myself for selling things. Another gun I can buy, hi-caps can't be gotten in CA.
I almost sold my G22 and 4 hi-caps -- instead I bought a G17 upper and 9MM ejector. That's my new 9MM. The 40 upper and mags will hybernate in an ammo can with about 100 rnds of Hydra Shok. Someday I might want to switch back. Maybe next month.
OkieCruffler
New member
My only experience is in running a guitar shop, but I doubt if the gun business is much different. Truth of the matter is, those two mags may just be the diference in the shop owner keeping the lights on. I don't think people realize just how thin the profit margin really is on products. I never gripe too much about my local dealer making some coin off of me, since most of the time I don't buy anything and am just in there fondling his goodies.
so I figure I owe him an extra 20 here and there.
so I figure I owe him an extra 20 here and there.
How about trying to work out a deal with the store? If they were NDF Glock mags, the two were prob worth $50 to $75 bucks a piece. Since you bought the gun from them, try offering the guy $100 for the set. That way he gets some extra money and you get a pretty good deal on a couple of hicaps.
The G19 is a great all around gun. BUT, you really need hicaps to make the most of this pistol. It's REALLY WORTH IT to get some hicaps!
The G19 is a great all around gun. BUT, you really need hicaps to make the most of this pistol. It's REALLY WORTH IT to get some hicaps!
I agree entirely!
I once had a small outboard motor boat with a POS trailer. I was a little short of cash and didn't really have it to lay out for a new trailer. I watched the ads in the local classified hoping to find a deal on a used trailer and low and behold I saw and ad for a boat and new trailer for a very reasonable price. I raced over and bought the boat and trailer. I switched the trailer for my POS trailer (and put my POS trailer with the POS boat). I put the two POS in the classifieds and sold them in a week.
Result, new trailer for my trouble at no cost beyond my labor! My dad refused to believe me when I told him the story. Everybody in that transaction was happy with their deal.
Isn't that about the same thing.
PigPen