You gotta be jerkin my chain

I couldn't really tell what I was seeing, but I've heard Newsmax is pretty reliable. Gee...and we just thought that the plane itself was shot down. :(
 
I'm not sure what I was seeing either, but whatever it was, it wasn't pretty and I almost lost my breakfast looking at it.

WARNING: The above link contains a nasty photo!
 
That one smelled from the git go. A whole bunch of things that shouldn't happened starting from prior to the crash.

I know too much about the equipment and procedures both in the air and on the ground and yet have too little info to do more than guess. ATR in 737 and OinC ASR 8. If that was a set up, had to be a LOT of people in on it. If not a set up, Murphy had to work overtime.

Sam
 
First, if you are going to blow up/crash the man's plane, why would you bother to shoot him first, especially since that might mean you would need a suicidal agent?

Second, isn't it entirely possible that being a crash victim would punch a hole in your skull, and other places?
 
There are several other pictures in that link including the x-rays. Odd that the hole in his skull just happens to be 45 caliber.
 
Oh, gosh...

Who's Ron Brown? >cringe<

------------------
John/az
"When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!

See The Legacy of Gun Control film at: www.cphv.com

Do it for the children...
 
Do you all really believe Feinstein fell down the stairs in Aspen and broke her left leg? Or was somebody a few clicks off? Photos at 10.

RKBA!
 
Let's see...

IIRC, Brown was still strapped into his seat when his body was pulled from the wreckage.

Anyone notice what is missing from the photo of the wound?

Discoloration caused by powder particles contaminating the periphery of the wound?

Which means that the so called bullet wound was inflicted from greater than 4 feet away...

So just how was he shot? (He wasn't.)

By someone velcroed to the ceiling of the plane?

Note also, in the x-rays, that while you CAN see the supposed bullet hole in the top of the head, what you can't see are fragments (which were noted by the doctor) that would be consistent with a bullet wound. Note that you DO see several amalgam fillings in the teeth.

What else appears to be missing?

In neither x-ray is there any evidence of the type of "scrambling" that a bullet wound to the head creates.

The images, with their relatively even contrast (especially on the lateral views) are consistent with brain that has not been traumatically wounded.

Also, there don't appear to be any images of bone fragments that a bullet wound would have driven deeply into the brain.

You'll also note that in the close-up view of the wound that the brain tissue shows no evidence of trauma. It is smooth, rounded, and unflecked with blood, all an indication that the brain itself was not penetrated.

While I'm not a doctor, I have seen a number of traumatic cranial injuries, and have also seen several dozen photograph studies, complete with x-rays, of bullet wounds to the head. This is unlike any of those that I've seen.

What I would conclude?

At some point in the crash, some object punched a hole in Brown's skull.

Whoops, forgot to add my final conclusions.

1. Cause of crash -- As an initiation prank, junior cadets of Croatia's air force were to urinate in their flight leader's fuel tank. They got the wrong plane.

2. Cause of hole in Brown's head. The object that punched a hole in Brown's head was an alien probe.

During final approach, aliens beamed aboard his plane to conduct "inserted probe" experiments. While conducting their experiments, they realized the plane was about to crash, so they beamed back off of the plane before they had a chance to repair the evidence of their experimentation.

3. The aliens were working for none other than first lady Hillary Rodham Clinton, who had contracted with them to probe Brown's brain in an effort to see how much he knew in an attempt to save her Presidency if Brown were convicted.

4. Failing in that mission, Hillary ordered them to take a drastic step -- kidnap the President and hold him on their planet, while replacing him with a genetically perfect replica.

Unfortunatly, the replica was TOO perfect, and took up Bill's philandering ways. (We should have been tipped off that Bill had been replaced with an alien by the fact that he fell for Monica Lewinski).

5. Hillary, in an uncontrollable rage, contracts with another set of aliens to kill the FIRST set of aliens in an effort to stop them from beaming subliminal messages to every American of the real Bill hitting on cute alien females. ("Hey Baby, cute heads!").

6. Hillary, in a desperate effort to keep those aliens quite, contracted a THIRD set of aliens to kill the alien killers, then a fourth, fifth, sixth, etc., until ALL alien civilizations were wiped from the galaxy.

When the very last race of aliens killed the second to last, she strangled, with her own two hands, the final assassins, bringing to a successful conclusion of the most imfamous, and successful coverup in the history of human kind.

7. Thus, in her desire to maintain her presidency, Hillary Rodham Clinton is the reason why humans are alone in the universe!

-----------------
Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.

[This message has been edited by Mike Irwin (edited September 09, 2000).]
 
A Clinton supporter here!!!! I am amazed.
I recognize the Clinton tactics though. Everyone who thinks you are guilty of a crime is portrayed as a crackpot or extremist.
A low velocity shot delivered when he was found alive after the crash would not cause a great deal of brain disruption like a high velocity round. The brain is gelatinous and could easily move to hide the disruption.
I guess those aliens did Kennedy too.
 
Sorry, East, the brain doesn't react that way.

It won't automatically "sponge" back into place after being penetrated.

Take a good look at the close-up photo of the supposed bullet wound.

As I noted, the brain matter that is evident shows no obvert signs of trauma. None. It is shiny, smooth, and rounded.

That, simply, would be an IMPOSSIBILITY with a penetration the size of a .45 bullet.

The brain is a highly oxygenated organ (tremendous bloodflow through a tremendous network of arteries, veins, and capilaries).

ANY disruption to this network causes bleeding. A wound in which the brain is penetrated to the outside causes heavy bleeding.

The disruption caused by a .45-caliber projectile moving through brain matter, even at low velocity, would cause PROFUSE bleeding.

Have you ever seen the video (NOT the still photograph) of Vietnamese General Nguyen Ngoc Loan shooting the Vietcong guerrilla in the head? I've attached a link for the Pulitzer-prize winning photograph.

Gen. Nguyen Loan

Gen. Loan used a .38 Spl. Smith & Wesson, very likely loaded with the low-power US military loading that was issued to American aircrewmen, and which was supplied to the South Vietnamese in large quantities.

These rounds used a FMJ-bullet traveling at roughly 800 fps, IOW slower than standard .45 hardball, and giving even less power and making a smaller hole.

Yet, in the video, when the dead Vietcong falls to the street, the blood spout issuing from the .38-cal. hole in his head is truly monumental, reaching at one point what appeared to be over 1 foot in height.

If this wound had actually penetrated the brain, the tissue showing up would show signs of it through disruption (not only from the bullet, but also from the jagged bone fragments driven into the brain) and would likely look like a black-red gory hole tinged with flecks of brain matter that was "scrambled" and subsequently ejected by the blood flow.

I'm sorry, based on those photographs, I just do NOT buy the theory that Brown was executed.

As for me being a Clinton supporter, heh, yeah, I sure am. He's da man. :rolleyes:

While you and I both know that Clinton is guilty of many crimes, I find the hyperparanoid conspiracy theories that surround his every action to be EXTREMELY disturbing.

When it comes to Bill Clinton, otherwise sensible people seem to take complete leave of their senses in their rush to grasp onto the most ludicrous theories of malfeasance.

------------------
Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
 
I admire the logic of your reasoning Mike but I have shot enough game over the years to know that the effects of bullet impact on flesh can vary widely. I have dipatched wounded animals with head shots using low velocity pistol rounds and unless the large vessels in the brain are disrupted very little bleeding can occur. Ron Brown's head had obviously been subjected to a great deal of trauma making it even more difficult to make a patent prediction on how the brain would react.
I am not saying he was shot. But after John, Bobby and Martin I look twice when I am told something by the Government.
Ron Brown did threaten to expose Clinton. That is not conjecture that is fact. Dozens of people have accused Clinton of crimes from rape to murder. To believe he is an innocent lamb is ridiculous.
 
I totally agree with Mike Irwin! While I believe the Ron Brown had damning information about Bill and perhaps Hillary, nothing I saw looked anything like any GSW I have ever seen. The hole was too perfectly round, almost surgical. Bone does not fracture like that. There should have been a lot more soft tissue damage visible in the wound. The X-ray most likely would have revealed either the bullet, or more bone damage from the exit wound. It looked like an early stage autopsy photo to me.

My two cents.
 
Kathleen Janoski I believe is the forensic photographer that took that picture. A goolge search turned up a lot of information that can squelch many of the conspiricy theories. Unfortunatly :( , it brings even more questions than it answers. FWIW, there is a cover up here, but it's not clear exactly what is being covered up. Most likely it involves a terrible FUBAR,( remember the mishandling of JFK's body?) and not a sinister murder. The demise of Ron Brown was awfully convienient though. As for myself, I tend to echo Kathleen Janoski's words. "Wow, look at the hole in Ron Brown's head", a statement she made several times, and was repeatedly told not to say.
From what I have been able to gather, it's more about gross incompetance in the handling of the matter than anything else. Incompetance that goes all the way to the top. (Clinton)

FWIW, according the witnesses, Ron Brown's body was found outside of the plane in what was described officialy as a "dead cockroach" position. Being a member of the Clinton staff, it sounds fitting ;)

Of more interest is what has happened to the people involved in the investigation. No, they haven't been killed off, but they seem to have had their careers scattered to the wind. This story seems to get better every month.

[This message has been edited by RAE (edited September 10, 2000).]
 
If it is not a bullet hole any ideas what made the 45 caliber hole? The hole diameter could just be concidence but with Clinton you need to check eveything. Why wasn't an autopsy allowed? Cyril Wecht said the wound was consistent with a gunshot wound. I am tired of Clinton commiting crimes and being immune to our legal system. I cannot judge the evidence fairly I admit. I greatly cherish my second amendment rights and he has devoted himself to taking them away.
The following is a report of what was said in Clintons office. It has to make you wonder if the death was accidental.
"Brown went to Clinton, according to Nolanda Hill, and said to Clinton: "Unless you get this Democrat independent counsel off my back, I may have to turn state's evidence. I may have to cooperate." Clinton's response was - barefoot, according to Nolanda Hill, up on a foot stool, which is his way of walking around the White House, arms crossed - "That's nice." Almost like an organized crime figure, "That's nice." The icy chill in the room was so great that Nolanda Hill has told us that Ron Brown just walked out at that point. And it was within the next two weeks that he was sent to Bosnia. He did not know that he was scheduled to go there."
 
East,

Once again, the brain will NOT react in the way that the photograph shows it to be if it is penetrated by a large caliber projectile.

Punching a .45 caliber hole through the top portion of the cranium and down into the brain would NOT miss major blood vessels. There are simply too many of them in the brain for that to happen.

Even if the bullet passed PERFECTLY between the two dural (I THINK that's the right word) hemispheres, it would have severed any number of major veins and arteries.

As for the wound "being consistent with a gunshot wound," in essence, ANY penetrating wound is consistent with a gunshot wound.

A bullet wound is nothing more than a puncture wound.

At low velocity, with even less tissue disruption being caused by bullet velocity, it becomes even HARDER to determine if a wound is a stab wound or a gunshot wound.

In many cases, doctors who see patients in emergency rooms are unable to tell exactly what caused a particular wound unless there is:

A) direct evidence of a gunshot through powder marking or flash burning of the flesh from a contact wound, or

B) someone is there who can positively tell them that "person X was shot."

Until an x-ray series is done to determine if a bullet is still in the body, the diagnosis will almost always be "penetrating wound that is consistent with a gunshot."

That's where that word CONSISTENT comes in.

As I noted above, I've been priveledged to study x-rays and photographs of quite a few head wounds causes with handguns, rifles and shotguns.

I, too, have also killed my fair share of animals over the years, including a number of pigs with a .32 Long prior to butchering.

In all cases with those pigs, a headshot caused blood ejection from the wound and created a wound that is completely unlike what is shown in the photographs. The wounds were as I described them above, gory red-black holes, showing some brain tissue that was NOT in the condition of the brain tissue in the Ron Brown photograph.

In looking at the photos of the wound again, I'm also struck by the absolute regularity of the hole in Brown's head.

That, in and of itself is also suspicious. A low velocity projectile doesn't cut a perfectly round hole in bone, it fractures it, moves it out of the way, and chips the living poop out of the margins. I've seen ample evidence of that from the pig skulls I mentioned above.

The hole in Brown's head looks almost as if were done with a trepaning saw in an effort to treat a subdural hematoma.

Again, I'm seriously concerned that in our hatred for Bill Clinton, we've become much too willing to see conspiracies and malfeasance at every turn, and almost gleefully are willing to manufacture situations.

Case in point, a person I know.

Upon viewing a photograph of Bill with his arm around Chelsea, he made the remark that he believes that the President has been sexually abusing his daughter when he can't meet up with any of his paramours.

Sorry, but with that, this entire thing is just going way too far.



------------------
Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
 
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