You Can't Trust A "Patriot" By: Kurt Saxon

"NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM" I guess these words appeared on the Fed Reserve note after Reagan coined the term after the alleged collapse of the USSR, now they are our buddies, with the CHI-COM, these people only want the best for us? Yeah right.
We should have rearmed the Germans during WWII as Patton said and helped them destroy the commies in Russia and finished the Red Chinese during Korea. This country's starboard side is almost veritcal we're listing so heavily port side. The liberals (Fascists) have infected this country like a plague. To my way of thinking the attacks against our feedoms are too multifaceted to be thought up by a bunch of 60's hippies who don't like guns (aka the slicksters of the world). I think we may have passed the point of no return and only the implementation of the 2nd can save us.


Who is John Galt?

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The beauty of the second Amendment is that it is not needed until they try to take it. T JEFFERSON

Do you really think that we want those laws to be observed? We want them broken. We're after power and we mean it. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breakings laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted-and you create a nation of law breakers--and then you cash in on guilt.

A RAND
 
It's rather odd that the man goes on and on against extremism and conspiracies, and in the end recommends that we all stock up on wheat so we will survive the coming horrific times.

I liked the first 2/3 pretty well though, and he's got some good points about conspiracies. My take on the gun-control issue is merely that lots of people, including many politicians and celebreties, think that we'd be safer without guns. I believe they are wrong, of course, but It's not some huge conspiracy to make us slaves.
 
I find it interesting that anything that does not support his views is "unimportant".

He considers Waco theories merely crappola to generate revenue - oh, by the way, he wants you to send money to him and join his club.

He's welcome to his views - just as Sarah Brady is welcome to hers.
 
Yes, i believe Ober komando is correct. All these attacks on our freedoms the last decades are well orchestrated by expert handlers well above the likes of cheap politicos like Clinton who has even admitted that he often has decisions made for him by others! this was in a speech while he was in Ireland and of coarse the media let it slip by.We have the best governmnet money and power can buy and the handlers are the real rulers, not the politicos of the 2(really one) parties. The 12 families that control the Federal reserve are the real power brokers of this nation. They control the money:they control us (US). No one wants to admit the truth or do the research. Too bad we cant ask woodrow Wilson,where ever he is now. For he was quoted after signing the Federal reserve act as saying that control of the nation has been put into private hands. what he meant was that now private central banksters could inflate or deflate the currency at their pleasure.The result would be debt and slavery for the american worker in the long run. Yes, i g et flamed ,but the history of America since 1913 is one of wars and debt. The false prosperity is about to end. We did not head Jeffersons and Jacksons warnings about establishing a central banking system.
 
There has been no conspiracy to infect this country with what conservatives deem to be "bad" but all those things that this gentlement deems to be "bad" have been promulgated by the likes of the NRA, et al.

Sounds like Hillary's "Vast right wind consiracy" to me. He lost me when he said "there are too many guns"

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I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty or give me death! - RKBA!
 
Ivan,
The history of America prior to 1913 was one of war and debt also. The big deal after 1913 was the debts went unpaid.
Please give details on the Clinton speech and references as to where, when and in what context. I am not defending that POS, but the statement could have been made in some unrelated context.Clinton may be a lot of things, 99 and 44/100 % evil, but he is a gifted orator.(So was Hitler, so I don't say that in a good way)

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CCW for Ohio action site.
http://www.ofcc.net
Do what you C.A.N.
http://thematrix.acmecity.com/digital/237/can.html
 
After wading through these three papers I can only feel sorry for the author. Years of apparent drug abuse have caused much of his intellect to disappear.

This paper is an illogical piece of nonsense.
 
Another attempt to devalue our values.
"You gotta stand for something, or you'll fall for anything!"

I'll stand for RKBA!
 
Paul Revere & Dennis,

I never said I agreed with all that Kurt says, but I think that this still must hit a little too close to home for you guys. Since you don't like the message, you guys shoot down the messenger and his motives.

I think that it is YOU TWO who must have been on drugs WAY to long to fall for this NWO, CFR, TLC, Skull & Bones conspiracy crapola. Step back and look at this thing objectively. Who really looks like a whacko? It is you guys who are seeing little black helicopters and NWO foreign troops following you around everywhere not Kurt!

One of these days you will wake up from your haze and realize that you have been duped by the modern day snake oil salesman, the shortwave radio con artist. Have you got those gas masks and gold coins stocked up yet. LOL

Joe
 
nralife:

I can't speak for anyone else, but I never did drugs. Also, never smoked. And, drinking is something I never got interested in doing either. I was too busy working and going to school full time when all of my contemporaries were busy partying.

But I can see how someone who avoids doing their homework (regarding conspiracy) could easily buy into this guy's (Saxon's) garbage. BTW, a constant complaint I've heard from guys like yourself regarding conspiracy is, "Where's the proof?" Show me the evidence, is what I keep hearing.

Besides myself, I've seen others on here, post some pretty good sources of information (references) which would lead any reasonable person to the same "whacky" conclusions that I have. But, you'll never hear me talk about "black helicopters" or seeing "foreign troops" (eventhough I've read all about them), because I have never seen them. But, I guarantee you, that if I did, and even if I had photographs, folks who are so dead set against believing in this stuff will certainly doubt that evidence too.

But to read Saxon's work is like trying to understand a Salvador Dali painting. His "logical" explanation carries with it neither evidence, or logic. No references are made for me to check out his sources, only "his" word, his ideals, his philospohy.

I've never bought into any "snake-oil" bit about the real world, only facts about it. But I am interested in reading everything that can assist in my life's continuing education, including things I don't believe in (as to get an even perspective of a particular issue).

Ultimately we alone have to choose what to believe in, much as a jury has to do with the evidence provided them. We owe it to ourselves to explore these available facts, and decide for ourselves whether to add it to or subtract it from our total perspective of things.

I am convinced that without the assistance of our willingness to find out for ourselves, we will remain stubbornly rooted to our ignorance. Take for example the University scholars who once were against guns in our society, but upon researching the facts about guns, actually changed their opinions to a pro-gun position.

There isn't a conspiracy of gun makers (with the assistance of the NRA) to sell more guns, as Saxon would have you believe. But, there is a legitimate and provable record of an attack against our RKBA. There is also a historical precedence that shows that disarming civilians was a deliberate and intentional act of those who would eventually oppress those same civilians. But the 2nd amendment is just the tip of the iceberg, so to speak. Once that is ripped from our hands, the rest of our Rights are doomed as well.

And whether you believe me, or Gary North, or Kurt Saxon, or Hillary Clinton, it doesn't matter. What matters is that you are satisfied with what you hold as your personal beliefs. That you are confident that by drawing your conclusions, you will be safe from a blindsided attack when and if it comes.

My beliefs are evolving. But they are based upon certain principles. My curiosity about conspiracy is due to my suspicion of what we (you and I) have been told to believe. I am not satisfied until I have found out for myself. And that has allowed me to uncover things that I believe are worth paying attention to, not ignore.
 
References to Moderator generated private email deleted.

Joe,
Please reference my prveiously sent email. We're all on the right side of the barricade here.
Regards,
Rich

[This message has been edited by Rich Lucibella (edited November 01, 1999).]
 
nralife:

I respectfully submit that you re-read Kurt Saxon's articles. He has clearly fabricated his own definition of a "patriot" to somehow justify the bashing he gives to those that consider themselves "patriots". According to the American Heritage dictionary, the proper definition is, "Patriot; A person who loves, supports, and defends his country." Not, Saxon's, "...one who upholds and defends the culture, traditions, and wisdom of his ancestors." He also refers it to a Greek origin ("patros, fathers or ancestors") which again, is only partially true. It actually has a Greek origin of "patriotes, from patris, fatherland".

But in a rambling such as Saxon's, historic definitions and events seem to be quite meaningless.

He reminds me of an animal rights zealot I confronted many times in front of cameras, who claimed to have once been a hunter. Much the same as Saxon claims to have once been a patriot. He (the zealot) spoke in these terms to somehow convince his audience of his intimate knowledge of the subject, as Saxon does.

Saxon's ramble is quiet misdirected. Especially after one visits his webpage where he claims to be an expert on Y2K preparedness. In his "patriot" article, he claims the patriot movement is akin to "a sucker market, a flock of sheep to sheer". But the vulnerable Y2K scare isn't? Kurt Saxon should know about that, but he doesn't know anything about loving, supporting, and defending one's country. Maybe we should take a TFL poll to find out how many patriots are members (or vice versa). I think you'll find the majority who...loves, supports, and will defend their country. That's why we're here talking about our RKBA passions in the first place.

Trust a patriot.

[This message has been edited by Paul Revere (edited November 01, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by Paul Revere (edited November 01, 1999).]
 
Paul Revere,

[This first paragraph, again deleted by Staff as it alludes to private email from a third party. Inappropriate netiquette-
Rich Lucibella]

I am not a big Kurt Saxon fan. He is wrong on a whole lot of things including the Bible and gun control, but he is also right on some other things including this conspiracy business. To be fair, Mr. Saxon has just recently jumped on the Y2K bandwagon because of his dire financial situation. In fact he is the one who coined the term "survivalist" many moons ago way before anyone ever heard of Y2K.

To clear up a few things, I am reposting the below post that I made on this board a few days ago...

"I have listened to a lot of short-wave radio and read a lot of patriot info on the internet and for the most part I am not convinced.. There is a definate move towards centralized world government, but I don't believe in a grand NWO conspiracy.

I think that a lot of so called patriots on short-wave radio and on the internet are nothing more than modern day snake oil salesman. The tell all kinds of wild stories about black helicopters and foreign troops on U.S. soil, in order to sell to sell survival products at inflated prices. ***I'm not saying that there aren't a lot of honest, dedicated patriots out there who doing a lot of good.*** It's just that too many of them have been fooled into beleiving all of this conspiracy garbage about gold fringe on flags and stuff like that. Sheesh!

The dishonest patriots prey on the unaccomplished among us and give him or her a "cause," something to believe in, thereby putting direction in an otherwise directionless life. This individual now thinks he has an inside track on some secret information and he will dedicate his life much like a follower in a cult. This so called secret information gives the individual a sense of superiority, because he is now in the "know."

This tactic by the dishonest patriots is nothing new. It was practiced by doom and gloomers during the Cold War in much the same manner. Now that the Cold War is over, some other boogie man had to be invented. The New World Order now fills the bill as the latest boogie man whereby the unaccomplished can be scared into buying gas masks, gold coins, or whatever.

All of this talk about conspiracies, just sidetracks us from what we need to be doing to save our Second Amendment rights.

I will stand behind the NRA, GOA, and JPFO and continue to support them.

Remember that the next President will nominate three Supreme Court justices. Think long and hard before you waste your vote on a third party candidate who has no chance of winning. (I said one who has NO chance of winning)

Joe

Join the NRA and vote."



[This message has been edited by Rich Lucibella (edited November 01, 1999).]
 
Nralife, the biggest gun grabber in the world right now is the UN. The Brits, Aussies, Canadians, and others have nearly all lost their gun rights due to UN influences in their governments. I cannot believe you cannot see this fact. Maybe you will the day YOUR govenment knocks on YOUR door and tells you "its for the good of the world to turn your guns in" The NRA has documented the big UN influence in anti gun programs around the world. i am surprised you missed it. If it is not a conspiracy,then what is it? what really hurts the patriot movement is many conservatives who refuse to face facts ,even when they are right in front of them. And the driving force for the UN has always been right here in America. That is the real irony. The land of freedom being responsible for the establishment of such a evil organization. But from the days of Senator Lafollette and other patriotic Americans, there have been Americans warning about the coming one system . We must keep warning today.
 
Ivan,

Thanks for your civil post to me. I am well aware of the UN's gun grabbing agenda, which I believe the Japanese are pushing very hard for. I even have a link to the NRA UN piece on my Second Amendment Homepage at http://members.aol.com/nralife/politics

I never said that there was NO conspiracy of any sort to disarm us. As DC has pointed out on another thread, just two or three people working together for the same goal can be considered a conspiracy of sorts. There ARE conspiracies at work to deprive us of our freedoms.

When people start to talk about gold fringe on flags, trying to prove that this country is under maritime law, and other such nonsense, is where they lose me.

Crooked patriots trying to make a living on the backs of the real patriots is what really irks me. I have listened to so called patriots on short-wave radio and read what they have to say on the internet while they are trying to scare people into buying all sorts of crap and they scare the hell out of me. Not because I fear the nonsense they are peddling, like UN troops on America soil, but because these nuts are going to persuade some loose cannon to do something stupid like blowing up another federal building. Once that happens the government WILL crack down again all to the glee of these so called patriots. You see when the government does crack down, the crooked patriots self fulfilling prophecies will come true. I would not doubt it if these so called patriots are agent provocateurs working for the government. Now there is a conspiracy that I can buy into!

For us to go around talking about how George W. Bush is a member of the Skull & Bones in the same breath as an RKBA argument makes us look like kooks to the very people that we need on our side. If we seem like lunatics to the undecided people in the middle, they won't want us having guns and they sure won't enlist in our cause to defend the Second Amendment. In my opinion, if you believe in NWO conspiracies, it is best you keep it to your self. We need to put up as sane and rational front as possible to the people we need on our side.

Joe

[This message has been edited by nralife (edited November 02, 1999).]
 
nralife...

I'm not sure what was deleted from your last post to me by the administrator, but my contribution to this thread isn't in any way a personal attack against your prior posts or the content of your statements. However, I think it is important to point out to people who sit on a politically correct fence, that either they investigate their suspicions, or get on the other side.

Since "The Order of Skull and Bones" sounds so sinister, most people that hear it in relation to political figures tend to believe that its some sort of attack against the figure. But, if you take the time to investigate it, you will find that Skull and Bones is indeed a real secret society at Yale University (not something made up in some conspiracy theorist's mind). You can't really call it a fraternity though. Bonesmen, as they are called, are sworn to secrecy (much like masons are) actually meet in a building on campus, called "The Tomb". The Tomb has no windows and can only be entered by Bonesmen. The Bonesmen have a long record of loyalty to their fellow Bonesmen, as well as eventually obtaining high positions in the government (specifically intelligence branches), media, etc. Many of these Bonesmen are involved with other organizations which clearly do not keep the U.S. Constitution in mind as they strategize the Globalization of the World (CFR, Tri-Lateral Commission, and the Bilderbergers). So, references to these organizations isn't something fabricated from the minds of zealous patriots-gone-bad, to somehow sell survivalist wears. These references have real significance to the "evolution" we see taking place in front of our eyes. Those that learn about these significant "coincidences", whereby the same names keep coming up, realize that there must be something to this, that they (those in these organizations) are not saying loudly to the public. Yes, some conclusions are drawn. But they are based specifically upon the various statements, speeches, papers, and publications made by these very organizations or their members.

To fear that one day someone who has knowledge of these conspiracies is going to bust a gasket and do some very ugly things is a legitimate concern. But you could say the same thing about postal workers, stock traders, high school students, a Xerox employee, or just about any walk of life where stresses can weaken an already fragile sense of self-worth in people.

To try to separate yourself from those that speak of patriotism in terms of real threats to this nation, whether you agree with the tangibility of those threats or not, is your choice. But you would be doing yourself and many others interested in RKBA a huge favor by thoroughly investigating these threats for yourself. Stop criticizing something that you are unfamiliar with. You may find that as crazy as all the NWO talk is, that there is substantial evidence to support those claims made.
 
nralife. You are correct. The nwo/black helicopter bunch need to cool it. We have plenty tangible geopolitical threats to worry about. The nwoguys make us all look unstable and ignorant. Yes, the UN is a leftwing hate-America comittee, but only because our politicians allow them to be so. Cure D.C., you cure the UN.

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E4
 
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