My wife and I have one of each, and I like them all. USP45C, P228, and G17. Of the available models from HK, SIG, and Glock, HK makes the least concealable guns. They are all generally accurate and reliable. Cost is similar between SIG and HK; I've found Glock to be cheaper. I think you can't go wrong with any of them. If you're thinking CCW, consider the G26 or G27.
Yet again...Sig v. H/K v. Glock
- Thread starter DPSproles
- Start date
You're right JT,
While Glock's are very fine weapon's indeed; I didn't
feel like they compare in the required fields. Look at
accuracy for example; pin-point accuracy is simply
just not obtainable from Glock's, using standard
sight's. While Glock's reliability is outstanding, I've
read and heard of too many KA-BOOM'S. As for
concealment, Glock most likely wins this round with
the sub-compact division. Cost is way in favor of
the Glock's; often times running $100.00 - $150.00
less than a Sig or H&K. As for owner's experience,
I've owned a G-17, G-23, and a G-27. I have never
experienced a bad outing with a Glock; I just very
strongly prefer Sig's. Here again as has been stated
before, "It's your money, buy what you want."
Regards,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
Sorry Glockster's, didn't mean to leave ya'll out of the original post.
While Glock's are very fine weapon's indeed; I didn't
feel like they compare in the required fields. Look at
accuracy for example; pin-point accuracy is simply
just not obtainable from Glock's, using standard
sight's. While Glock's reliability is outstanding, I've
read and heard of too many KA-BOOM'S. As for
concealment, Glock most likely wins this round with
the sub-compact division. Cost is way in favor of
the Glock's; often times running $100.00 - $150.00
less than a Sig or H&K. As for owner's experience,
I've owned a G-17, G-23, and a G-27. I have never
experienced a bad outing with a Glock; I just very
strongly prefer Sig's. Here again as has been stated
before, "It's your money, buy what you want."
Regards,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
Sorry Glockster's, didn't mean to leave ya'll out of the original post.
The USP Compact is not 1.14 inches in width despite what the website says. I think if you go to the German website, the dimensions are different. The US website also says the P7 is 1.14 inches in width. Now there is no way that the P7 and USP are the same dimensions in width.
I think HK is number one in accuracy if you compare the old school HK guns like the P7 and the P9S. However the SIG 210 is probably tops from what I've read.
The P7M8 has less muzzle flip than the Glock 17 and SIG 228. Out of those three, the SIG 228 has the most, and it is noticeable. I just shot all 3 side by side very recently. I used to say that the P7 had snappy recoil, but that was in the early days when I was inexperienced with pistols.
For concealability, they are all probably the same. However for the SIGs, you probably have to go with the 225 or 239. I've worn a 228 IWB in a Kytac and it's not nearly as comfortable as my P7 in a Kytac.
I think the Glocks definitely have the most bang for the buck.
As far as reliability goes, I have yet to see any P7 have a FTE or Failure to Feed. I have seen both in SIGs and Glocks, but it was probably due to a spring. I have seen Failure to Fires in all 3, but that is most likely ammo related. I would like to know if a Glock or SIG can fire without an extractor, with a broken firing pin bushing, and a broken trigger return spring. I have heard reports that the P7 can function with those parts broken.
In my experience, I would get the P7 again. If the P7 didn't exist I would get the Glock 19 or 19C. I would like to evaluate those two side by side. I don't like a DA/SA transition for a carry gun, so I am partial to the HKs and Glocks.
I think HK is number one in accuracy if you compare the old school HK guns like the P7 and the P9S. However the SIG 210 is probably tops from what I've read.
The P7M8 has less muzzle flip than the Glock 17 and SIG 228. Out of those three, the SIG 228 has the most, and it is noticeable. I just shot all 3 side by side very recently. I used to say that the P7 had snappy recoil, but that was in the early days when I was inexperienced with pistols.
For concealability, they are all probably the same. However for the SIGs, you probably have to go with the 225 or 239. I've worn a 228 IWB in a Kytac and it's not nearly as comfortable as my P7 in a Kytac.
I think the Glocks definitely have the most bang for the buck.
As far as reliability goes, I have yet to see any P7 have a FTE or Failure to Feed. I have seen both in SIGs and Glocks, but it was probably due to a spring. I have seen Failure to Fires in all 3, but that is most likely ammo related. I would like to know if a Glock or SIG can fire without an extractor, with a broken firing pin bushing, and a broken trigger return spring. I have heard reports that the P7 can function with those parts broken.
In my experience, I would get the P7 again. If the P7 didn't exist I would get the Glock 19 or 19C. I would like to evaluate those two side by side. I don't like a DA/SA transition for a carry gun, so I am partial to the HKs and Glocks.
Incursion,
I see, H&K is lying.
No, seriously. I believe the measurement the U.S. web site lists is the width of the slide. I'm not sure on the GLOCK if that measurement is the width of the slide or the widest point of the pistol.
The German site lists a width of 34 mm which is the width of the frame. Assuming the GLOCK web site is listing the width of the frame (it is common to see the width of the slide listed), the H&K is slightly wider than the GLOCK. I'll concede that point.
I will however argue that the difference between the two (1.5 millimeters, 25.4 milimeters in an inch) is negligible. Most people can't even eyeball 1.5 millimeters. When I hear people saying that the GLOCK is much thinner than the H&K and therefore easier to carry, it makes me laugh. That extra 1.5 millimeter of width really makes the difference I guess.
Everyone also likes to talk about how big the full sized USPs are. The funny thing is the full sized versions of the USP are only 0.5 millimeters wider than the full and mid sized GLOCKS, and only 2.5 millimeters wider than the "mini" GLOCKs. When it gets right down to it, they just aren't that big.
All in all, the GLOCK and H&K are very comparable in size.
By the way, you are correct about the P7 and the USP compact. The P7 is thinner by a whopping 5 millimeters. That is not very much.
Shake
I see, H&K is lying.
No, seriously. I believe the measurement the U.S. web site lists is the width of the slide. I'm not sure on the GLOCK if that measurement is the width of the slide or the widest point of the pistol.
The German site lists a width of 34 mm which is the width of the frame. Assuming the GLOCK web site is listing the width of the frame (it is common to see the width of the slide listed), the H&K is slightly wider than the GLOCK. I'll concede that point.
I will however argue that the difference between the two (1.5 millimeters, 25.4 milimeters in an inch) is negligible. Most people can't even eyeball 1.5 millimeters. When I hear people saying that the GLOCK is much thinner than the H&K and therefore easier to carry, it makes me laugh. That extra 1.5 millimeter of width really makes the difference I guess.
Everyone also likes to talk about how big the full sized USPs are. The funny thing is the full sized versions of the USP are only 0.5 millimeters wider than the full and mid sized GLOCKS, and only 2.5 millimeters wider than the "mini" GLOCKs. When it gets right down to it, they just aren't that big.
All in all, the GLOCK and H&K are very comparable in size.
By the way, you are correct about the P7 and the USP compact. The P7 is thinner by a whopping 5 millimeters. That is not very much.
Shake
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Another common misconception is that the 1911 style pistol is much thinner than most other pistols. However, is you look at the listed widths of most 1911s, it is around 1.25 inches or about 32 millimeters. That is pretty much in the ballpark for both the GLOCK and the H&K USP (within 2 millimeters of both).
Now I'm not going to argue that the GLOCK or the H&K is easier to pack or conceal than the 1911 (I don't believe they are), but its interesting how people come up with these ideas.
Shake
Now I'm not going to argue that the GLOCK or the H&K is easier to pack or conceal than the 1911 (I don't believe they are), but its interesting how people come up with these ideas.
Shake
The P7 is about .2 (5mm) inches thinner in width when compared to the USP Compact. I think .2 inches is discernable. People like the Kahrs because they are so thin. According to their website, the width is .9 inches. I'm sure a Kahr is more comfortable to carry than a P7.
I think the HKs get bashed by the Glockers because their design just doesn't seem to be as efficient.
The USPs have a longer overall length, yet they have a shorter sight radius and shorter barrel. They are about the same height, yet the Glock 17 hold two more rounds than the USP. The Glocks are also lighter.
The only downside to the P7 is its weight. It comes in at 34 oz. when loaded with 9 124 gr. Gold Dots on my scale, but I think the weight is one of the reasons it has the lowest muzzle flip.
Shake, I agree with you about the USP series and the Glocks. The width differential is not very discernable IMHO.
I think the HKs get bashed by the Glockers because their design just doesn't seem to be as efficient.
The USPs have a longer overall length, yet they have a shorter sight radius and shorter barrel. They are about the same height, yet the Glock 17 hold two more rounds than the USP. The Glocks are also lighter.
The only downside to the P7 is its weight. It comes in at 34 oz. when loaded with 9 124 gr. Gold Dots on my scale, but I think the weight is one of the reasons it has the lowest muzzle flip.
Shake, I agree with you about the USP series and the Glocks. The width differential is not very discernable IMHO.
Glocks are accurate
IMHO Glocks are very accurate. The problem is that you need to master a Glock just like you need to master DA/SA. Once you learn proper trigger control and grip you can get excellent accuracy from a Glock.
Best advice so far is to try all three and get what you want. That's the key point.
I like Glocks but you might hate them.
Just more things to think about are cost of magazines, and availability of accessories. Glock postban magazines can be had for $16 from places like Ivanhoe's Outlet. Leather and Kydex holsters are all over the place. You can even get a Glock plastic belt slide that will do a god job for $15.
There's also GSSF and the outstanding service offered by Glock. Evn if you buy a used Glock if you send it to them they'll replace all internals free. SIG Sauer usd to charge $45 for the service, I don't know what HK charges.
IMHO Glocks are very accurate. The problem is that you need to master a Glock just like you need to master DA/SA. Once you learn proper trigger control and grip you can get excellent accuracy from a Glock.
Best advice so far is to try all three and get what you want. That's the key point.
I like Glocks but you might hate them.
Just more things to think about are cost of magazines, and availability of accessories. Glock postban magazines can be had for $16 from places like Ivanhoe's Outlet. Leather and Kydex holsters are all over the place. You can even get a Glock plastic belt slide that will do a god job for $15.
There's also GSSF and the outstanding service offered by Glock. Evn if you buy a used Glock if you send it to them they'll replace all internals free. SIG Sauer usd to charge $45 for the service, I don't know what HK charges.
slickpuppy
New member
1. Accuracy out of the box?
HK P7M8 most definitely with the Sig 228 slightly ahead of one of my numerous Glocks in 9mm for readily available combat arms. The HK P9S in either 9 or 45 for the most accurate out of the box production type pistols.
2. Concealable?
Your choice there. It depends on body build.
3. Reliabilty?
All have been totally reliable without any FTF or FTE problems whatsoever
4. Cost v. "bang?" (aka "bang for the buck")
Glock wins there.
5. In your experience...which would you buy?
It really depends on the caliber. If it was 9mm I would go with a P7M8. My P9S models are more accurate but are in collector status pretty much.
If money was an issue then I would get one of the Sigs - probably another 228 with a few high caps or a 226 for a bit larger pistol. I love my Glocks, mind you, but the Sig is a great pistol - I am slowly warming to them
I said above IF it was a 9mm. If it was .45 caliber I would go with a Glock G30 all the way. I have shot the Sig P220 but was not happy with MY performance with it; therefore, I don't own one. That could change of course.
I simply can't shoot the HK USP models effectively. But, my HK P9S in .45 is truly the most accurate factory handgun out of the box that has ever been produced(not my claim...but I would agree). It continues to impress me and to others who have been fortunate enough to shoot it!
HK P7M8 most definitely with the Sig 228 slightly ahead of one of my numerous Glocks in 9mm for readily available combat arms. The HK P9S in either 9 or 45 for the most accurate out of the box production type pistols.
2. Concealable?
Your choice there. It depends on body build.
3. Reliabilty?
All have been totally reliable without any FTF or FTE problems whatsoever
4. Cost v. "bang?" (aka "bang for the buck")
Glock wins there.
5. In your experience...which would you buy?
It really depends on the caliber. If it was 9mm I would go with a P7M8. My P9S models are more accurate but are in collector status pretty much.
If money was an issue then I would get one of the Sigs - probably another 228 with a few high caps or a 226 for a bit larger pistol. I love my Glocks, mind you, but the Sig is a great pistol - I am slowly warming to them
I said above IF it was a 9mm. If it was .45 caliber I would go with a Glock G30 all the way. I have shot the Sig P220 but was not happy with MY performance with it; therefore, I don't own one. That could change of course.
I simply can't shoot the HK USP models effectively. But, my HK P9S in .45 is truly the most accurate factory handgun out of the box that has ever been produced(not my claim...but I would agree). It continues to impress me and to others who have been fortunate enough to shoot it!
I agree with MK11. You have to try them out. I prefer the H&K USP models, my favorite is the full size .45ACP. I have one friend who swears by Glock and another buddy who's a SIG fan. I can shoot all of them and hit the target but I perfer the USP .45F. Does that make the Glock and SIG lesser handguns? NO. You got to try them out for yourself. Hell that's the fun of shopping around when looking for a gun. It took almost 3 months for me to decide which gun to buy, but I was shooting twice a week with all different models, all different calibers. Then I shot the one's that made the short list several times again, then I made my choice. I don't have one regret with my purchase, but you have to do your homework and you have to shoot each gun you are considering. Each gun is different to each individual, that's why you got to shoot them to know which one is for you.