Yes, guns kill people. Sure...

[Sweet Shooter]

Sometimes, despite everything, kids are just bad

Agreed. That's it right there. There's a tendency for us to think that parents in some way "own" their kids... like we might a pet.

Three questions for Uncle Poop:
1. Have you ever been inside a jail?
2. Do you have kids?
3. What does all this have to do with firearms?
-SS-

 

[manta49]

Firearms are the most effective tool for killing, thats what most are designed for that's why the military use them. There is no point in denying that ,it still needs someone to have the will to kill. As for whose fault it is the responsibility its the person that pulls the trigger. Not their parents television etc.

 

[guruatbol]

Sweet shooter, I know you were not directing your comments to me. I would like to comment though.

Yes I have been inside of a prison. Yes I have kids.

Yes the interaction of the parents has so much to do with the decisions that a kid makes.

Yes kids will make their own choices and some pretty bad ones. As parents we have to love them no matter the choices that make. Part of this is paying attention to what they are doing. There are signs of this sort of behavior that should be noticed by the parents and action up to and including calling the authorities is appropriate.

It is tough to see a loved one carted off to jail or mental institution, but sometimes that is the toughest love of all!

You can not just let these precious little ones use their free will without guidelines or supervision. The good Lord has done this with us. The ultimate example.

We must be the example and be involved.

BTW there is no such thing as a bad child and I was not incarcerated!

Mel

 

[Skans]

Guns might be some of the most efficient tools for inflicting harm in the hands of the wrong person,

Not nearly as efficient, cheap and easy to use as Sarin. While idiots are quaking in their boots over 3D plastic guns, chemists are coming up with new formulas to get humans "uber-high" as well as extinguish them faster than your government can identify and outlaw them. It's the stuff we can't see and our government doesn't know about that should really worry us.

 

[manta49]

Not nearly as efficient, cheap and easy to use as Sarin.

There are a lot more deadly weapons. Its more what weapons are easily available, firearms are high on the list of easily available weapons.

 

[Buzzcook]

That a gun is inanimate, an object with no agency, a tool, toy, or whatever is a non-sequitur.

It is an answer to a question that was never asked.

 

[Unlicensed Dremel]

Don't forget the Canadian guy in camo fatigues - I blame the NRA of Canada for his rampage!

And obviously, the NKA (National Knife Association) is to blame for the Navy Yard stabbing.

 

[gyvel]

I agree this is a good discussion. I will point out thought that quite few people have been shot by their dog.

Glenn, I don't know about that, but I do know that my dogs have had a lot of shots. LOLL!!!!!!!

 

[gyvel]

Some legislation is good. For example, during the Clinton AWB, the number of drive-by bayonetings was greatly reduced.

Sadly, as of late, it seems that every time I turn on the computer, there is a new shooting somewhere. Have we gotten to the point where our society has degenerated so much that we are bringing up a generation of neurotic psychopaths?

What's going to happen is that we are going to hear about more and more senseless shootings by deranged individuals. Until some some really smart psychologist or sociologist comes up a sensible way to deal with these problems, it's not going to stop.

Additionally, personally, I think anyone who believes that the media (Hollywood, TV, music, etc.) are NOT infuencing juvenile behavior has their head in the sand

The irony of all of this is, while the antis scream "gun control," the necessity for guns becomes more of a necessity each passing day to protect ourselves from these violent, deranged sociopaths.

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Dogs stepping on, knocking over long guns or something like that and shooting their owner has happened a few times. Dogs with guns kill.

As far as media - the best take (and I read this stuff intensively) is that you have a fundamentally disturbed person.

Media then can aid in channeling how their behavior occurs.

The latest guy was a Columbine fetishist. This is common. IIRC, about 50 similar folks who were stopped before the incident were fascinated by Columbine. They study it and buy gear from the stores that sold stuff to the killers or the VT killer. They were caught by someone turning them in when they talked about their 'plans'.

The subtle point is whether media takes the normal and drives them to violence. This probably not true based on research and the dropping of violent crime rates.

Does media portrayals aid in the channeling of the mentally disturbed - probably does. Experts have argued for not having massive coverage, interviews of weeping relatives, the big memorials, etc.

It turns on the next killers' fantasies. But we have a free press and if it bleeds it leads.

 

[44 AMP]

The copycat thing is big with these killers. When the police searched Wesbecker's home, after his rampage, TIME magazine was found, on the table next to his chair, open to the detailed article about Purdey and the Stockton School shooting. And clearly well read....

investigation found that Wesbecker had even ordered the same model gun Purdey used, and when he was delivered a slightly different model, sent it back, and got the "right one".

One needs to remember that the people who go on these "rampage killing sprees" are not all loose cannons crashing in random directions. Some are, but others are coldly rational about what they plan to do.

Didn't one of the Columbine killers have a website full of love, peace, harmony, diversity, we should all get along, nobody should be bullied, etc., type messages?

I have no proof I can show, but I do believe that the constant repetition and objectification of all aspects of these horrible crimes in the news does have an effect, and could be the thing that convinces a deranged mind to turn their dark fantasies into reality.

We have what is called a free press, and they have a right to do what they do, but to use the anti's own argument, "if it saves just one life...."

Seems they don't like that idea, very much, if you apply it to them...

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

From what I read of the lit and some professional symposia - the media is channeling the pathology of many of these guys.

Here's an interesting side light I also heard at a symposium - the experts on handling critical incident fall out have plans for the memorials in the stadium. Wave the candles, hug survivors and relatives, sing the school song.

This serves several purposes:

1. Supposedly helps grieving
2. Re-established group solidarity so the students don't drop out of the school and transfer. It is also a marking of territory. Just like other primate tribes wave their arms and gesture on the boundaries of the land after conflict with another tribe.
3. Reduces the lawsuits by convincing survivor's parents, etc. that we love you and how can you sue Ol' STFU when we love you and care for. That's evil but out. BTW - STFU - seems rude but is used by the Chronicle of Higher Ed. forums to describe a less than performing university.