joe sixgun
New member
Yes M1917 if you want 30-06. You will never regret adding one to your collection.
WWII Rifle Information?
- Thread starter GreatLakesEnthusiast
- Start date
highpower3006
New member
I have been interested in military firearms since I first got interested in guns back when I was a kid. Since then my collection has waxed and waned as my financial situation has done the same.
I can say that I have never seen the prices of quality surplus guns go down. I remember when I bought my first military rifle, an Enfield No4Mk1 for $20, now that same rifle is $450. Even the lowly Mosin-Nagants that were so cheap and plentiful have dried up and prices are on the rise.
My advice is to study like crazy and then buy the best you can afford. Turkish Mausers are much less than a comparable German one, but the German rifle is always going to be worth more.
By all means get a Garand while they are still available and relatively inexpensive, they will always be around, but the prices are certainly going to go up. I remember when Soviet SVT40 rifles were under $400 and I hemmed and hawed and didn't get one. I recently broke down and won a bid on Gunbroker for one and it was four times the price of just a few years ago.
I think you will find that shooting one of these old war horses to be way more fun than shooting some modern firearm. For many of them, reloading is becoming the only way to shoot them more than just a few times.
I can say that I have never seen the prices of quality surplus guns go down. I remember when I bought my first military rifle, an Enfield No4Mk1 for $20, now that same rifle is $450. Even the lowly Mosin-Nagants that were so cheap and plentiful have dried up and prices are on the rise.
My advice is to study like crazy and then buy the best you can afford. Turkish Mausers are much less than a comparable German one, but the German rifle is always going to be worth more.
By all means get a Garand while they are still available and relatively inexpensive, they will always be around, but the prices are certainly going to go up. I remember when Soviet SVT40 rifles were under $400 and I hemmed and hawed and didn't get one. I recently broke down and won a bid on Gunbroker for one and it was four times the price of just a few years ago.
I think you will find that shooting one of these old war horses to be way more fun than shooting some modern firearm. For many of them, reloading is becoming the only way to shoot them more than just a few times.
GreatLakesEnthusiast
Inactive
I was leaning towards a Garand while CMP still had them reasonably priced. Thanks for the info about the types of ammo a Garand should use, I haven't heard that before. My preferences do lean slightly more towards bolt action designs so +1 on the M1917 and M1903 information. Not that I don't like semi-autos, its just so easy to blow through ammo with the dumb grin that is most definitely on my face.
To be clear, it is not a huge issue, just something to be aware of. Garand safe ammo is available, either Greek surplus from CMP, USGI surplus, or commercial "Garand safe" stuff from Federal, PMC or Privi Partizan.
If you reload, most bullet makers have M1 specific load data, using powders with burn rates and pressure curves that are close to the original M2 ball ammo and appropriate for the M1.
Information on the low number 1903 Springfield issues can be found here:
http://thecmp.org/cmp_sales/rifle_sales/m1903-m1903a3/
tahunua001
New member
personally I prefer cock-on-close bolt guns. the way they work is the firing pin cocked by the forward motion of the bolt rather than the upward rotation while ejecting a spent casing. it just makes the gun feel that much more solid in my hands( there is a definite spring-loaded resistance while closing the bolt). guns that are cock on close include-but are not limited to:
British enfields.
Japanese arisakas
US Model 1917
and Swedish Mausers(german mausers and their derivatives are all cock on open).
I've owned all of the above and my absolute favorite are the Arisakas, they are butt-ugly, hard to find ammo for, and nobody can agree on who was responsible for all of the grinder and chisel marks you find on 90% of them, but dang if they aren't wonderful rifles to shoot.
a much better gun for a beginner from that list is the British enfield. I'm partial to the enfield number 4 rifles(WWII era). they have high ammo capacity(10 rounds vs the usual 5 rounds with most other military bolt actions), the ammo is pretty widely available(can be found at most stores that have more than a single isle for ammo), and they are decently accurate/reliable. the swedish mausers are a close second in all regards and possibly even better in the ammo availability field. the US model 1917 is a good gun but prices are high, and I personally cant seem to shoulder it right and it beats me like rhianna.
other cheaper guns a lot of people go with are mosin nagants, swiss K series rifles, and the cheaper-non german mausers(turks and yugos mostly). the mosin nagant is crude, stiff, usually abused by improperly trained conscripts and built in a hurry by a desperate nation that had no inclinations to observe quality control. unless you get one that was made by finland, or a post war/ late war model, you're not likely to see any great amount of accuracy out of them and the affordable ammo has all dried up. I know little of the swiss rifles other than they were all the rage for about the last year and here a couple months ago they disappeared again along with all the imported ammo. they are straight pull rifles( you don't have to rotate the bolt, just pull back and push forward) so the bolt designs are quite complicated. all of the models I've seen in the local pawn shops were completely seized and none of the shop owners could adequately demonstrate un-seizing them for me to be interested enough to buy one. the non-german mausers are good enough quality I suppose, I just prefer swedes when speaking of mausers.
EDIT: if you're interested, I am currently trying to sell my abused little mixmaster M1917 if you are at all interested.
British enfields.
Japanese arisakas
US Model 1917
and Swedish Mausers(german mausers and their derivatives are all cock on open).
I've owned all of the above and my absolute favorite are the Arisakas, they are butt-ugly, hard to find ammo for, and nobody can agree on who was responsible for all of the grinder and chisel marks you find on 90% of them, but dang if they aren't wonderful rifles to shoot.
a much better gun for a beginner from that list is the British enfield. I'm partial to the enfield number 4 rifles(WWII era). they have high ammo capacity(10 rounds vs the usual 5 rounds with most other military bolt actions), the ammo is pretty widely available(can be found at most stores that have more than a single isle for ammo), and they are decently accurate/reliable. the swedish mausers are a close second in all regards and possibly even better in the ammo availability field. the US model 1917 is a good gun but prices are high, and I personally cant seem to shoulder it right and it beats me like rhianna.
other cheaper guns a lot of people go with are mosin nagants, swiss K series rifles, and the cheaper-non german mausers(turks and yugos mostly). the mosin nagant is crude, stiff, usually abused by improperly trained conscripts and built in a hurry by a desperate nation that had no inclinations to observe quality control. unless you get one that was made by finland, or a post war/ late war model, you're not likely to see any great amount of accuracy out of them and the affordable ammo has all dried up. I know little of the swiss rifles other than they were all the rage for about the last year and here a couple months ago they disappeared again along with all the imported ammo. they are straight pull rifles( you don't have to rotate the bolt, just pull back and push forward) so the bolt designs are quite complicated. all of the models I've seen in the local pawn shops were completely seized and none of the shop owners could adequately demonstrate un-seizing them for me to be interested enough to buy one. the non-german mausers are good enough quality I suppose, I just prefer swedes when speaking of mausers.
EDIT: if you're interested, I am currently trying to sell my abused little mixmaster M1917 if you are at all interested.
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Buy a copy of Small Arms Of The World (Smith&Smith), a real book or on a disc, or download or whatever.
Old ones, which fully cover the WWII period as well, can be found cheap at gunshows (avoid the "book collector" copies).
Very good overview of military small arms, all the major types and many of the rarer ones. Operating and field stripping instructions in the text, lots of pictures, and some good history, but not detailed like books on the specific rifles or pistols.
The era of the cheap milsurp and its ammo is over. The era of the inexpensive is nearly so.
Each major player in WII fielded 2 or more main rifles during the war. The US had 4, 1903, 1917, M1 Garand and M1 Carbine. There were others used in small numbers.
Britian and Commonweath used the SMLE, and variants, ranging from WWI models to the No.5 Jungle carbine.
Russia used all versions of the Moisin Nagant, (3 main ones) the SVT 40 and some others.
Japan had two different Arisakas.
Italy had a couple of different Carcanos and others.
Germany used everything they could build or get their hands on. Mausers, German made, CZech made, Belgian made, Yugoslavian made (on German provided tools), lots of different variants there. If they captured an arms factory still in working order, they put it to work. And still never had enough,
I'm not going to bother with the French...
Its a large field for collecting, ENJOY!!!
Old ones, which fully cover the WWII period as well, can be found cheap at gunshows (avoid the "book collector" copies).
Very good overview of military small arms, all the major types and many of the rarer ones. Operating and field stripping instructions in the text, lots of pictures, and some good history, but not detailed like books on the specific rifles or pistols.
The era of the cheap milsurp and its ammo is over. The era of the inexpensive is nearly so.
Each major player in WII fielded 2 or more main rifles during the war. The US had 4, 1903, 1917, M1 Garand and M1 Carbine. There were others used in small numbers.
Britian and Commonweath used the SMLE, and variants, ranging from WWI models to the No.5 Jungle carbine.
Russia used all versions of the Moisin Nagant, (3 main ones) the SVT 40 and some others.
Japan had two different Arisakas.
Italy had a couple of different Carcanos and others.
Germany used everything they could build or get their hands on. Mausers, German made, CZech made, Belgian made, Yugoslavian made (on German provided tools), lots of different variants there. If they captured an arms factory still in working order, they put it to work. And still never had enough,
I'm not going to bother with the French...
Its a large field for collecting, ENJOY!!!
tahunua001
New member
some might say that due to the very different manufacturing process/configurations the 1903A3-4s were a different model altogether. there were also the johnsons(not exactly standard issue by any means)
homefront security also used the P14 and M1917.
they had 6 by my count.
the type 38 long rifle
type 38 carbines(basically the same as most other carbines of the day which were just shortened versions of the originals)
type 44 cavalry carbine.
type 97
type 99
and the type I which was a bastardized combo between the Arisaka and carcano rifles made in Italy for the Japanese navy because army kept calling dibs on the real arisakas.
very true, they also used the straight pull mannlichers and captured mosin nagants toward the end of the war.
the MAS36 (terrible rifles), as well left over berthiers from WWI, and model 1917s and 1903s donated by the U.S. to degauls resistance.