WWII bolt action sniper rifles.

KraigWY

I don't want to argue, just have a question. You said "Post Viet Nam there was no interest in sniping." Officially, I guess Post was around 1975, but there was not much going on by 71-72. I remember in 72-73 at LeJeune that the grunt units and Force Recon brought their weapons into my shop for inspection/service and they were bolt-action equipped. It has been so long to remember, but I think it was 2 bolt rifles to a company.
 
Picture084.jpg
Picture085.jpg
Picture089.jpg
Picture087.jpg
Picture088.jpg
These are some attempt to get pictures of the scope and mounts
 
Thanks for the excellent post, kraigwy. In the context of this thread it is hard to separate sniping from the designated marksman. The DM concept may not have come along by the time of WWII and it would be interesting to hear the history of it. All I know is that the army went for it big time and issued appropriate equipment apparently to just about every unit in the field. My son served in Iraq with a tank unit (as a tank crewman) and related that even they had some men go to through the DM course. They supposedly were select men and not randomly selected either. Yet they also supposedly passed on the special equipment they received, claiming it was out of line with their mission. After all, what would a tank do with a .50 caliber rifle?

Also, the fact that optical sights are so widely issued suggests that there would be little need for any additional equipment as long as the caliber of any other rifle was still 5.56mm. Oh, the tankers also turned in their pistols as useless. They all got rifles or carbines.
 
Watching the history channel I can say I have seen where back during the civil war there was some sniping going on. They might not have colled them snipers. And also during WW2 there were trained russian women that sniped. I cant remeber the name but there was one that was famous for killing a lot of germans. Wish I had better facts, but I here the stories and dont remember the technical stuff. I had a few kin folk in WW2 and heard some stories. All I know if my uncle Buddy was alive right now he would probubly kick my ass for driving a toyota truck. He flew in the pacific.
 
My late father-in-law flew over Germany. Hated Jap things, loved German things. He liked to say he helped out with German urban renewal.

When you hear stories about WWII Russian snipers, take them with a grain of salt. A lot of them were amplified to the level of propaganda, although there was a war on and people did actually shoot one another. Same with the German side of the war. A lot of the high opinions we have of the German war machine is based on their propaganda, yet the armored school formerly at Ft. Knox has more photos of German generals on the wall than others.

The origin of sniping should be interesting and probably started with the rifle units (when most soldiers had smoothbores) that some armies had, including ours. Their level of marksmanship was high and they had no qualms of shooting someone above their own social rank. Telescopic sights were used during the American Civil War but I don't know when they were developed.

True sniping is a high art but not the answer to every military problem.
 
For those interested, here is an insert from my Granddaughters report on the history of sniping in the US. She did a dern good report, got her an A+ in her 9th Grade Socal Science Class. This is just an insert:

TIME LINE OF SNIPER RIFLE DEVELOPMENT

1350 First known use of black powder as a propellant
1776 First military use of rifle muskets
1846 Invention of nitroglycerin
1849 Invention of the minnie ball projectile
1861 first use of telescopic sings on sniper rifles
1898 First US Military use of smokeless gun powder
1900 Army issues first contract for telescopic sights for sniper rifles
1903 Army adapts the 1903 Springfield, issues telescopic sighs to sharpshooters
1916 First use of silencers and suppressers on sniper rifles
1945 Use of semiautomatic rifles as sniper rifles
1953 Army standardized the sniper rifle as the M1C/D with M84 Sight
1956 Army Marksmanship Unit created
1964 Night Vision scopes used on sniper rifles
1967 Automatic ranging scopes developed for sniper rifles
1975 AMU establishes standard sniper school
1977 Marine Sniper Schools established/ Mil Dot system for range estimation
1982 Barrett invents the 50 cal sniper rifle for long range sniping
1987 Army establishes its sniper schools
2001 Afghan war sees extensive use of heavy, long range sniper rifles.
Click to expand...
 
Well,

I have never fired a sniper variant of any rifle.
I have no sniper training.


I own a No.4 Enfield, and a Mosin Nagant 91/30.

I prefer the easy extracting of the Enfield.
I prefer the reliable feed of the MN.
I prefer the tigger on the No.4.
I prefer The sights on the MN.
I prefer the ammo capacity of the No.4
I prefer the Heavy duty-ness of the MN.
I prefer the safety on the No.4
I prefer the lesser recoil of the MN

If I shoot a pig with quality soft point ammo with the Enfield. its a a fer sure dead pig.
If I ever find me some soft point ammo for the MN I would expect about the same results.
 
I already mentioned that I owned a Lee-Enfield sniper outfit, including the wooden case. It did not, however, include the spotter scope and the telescope was not numbered to the rifle (or strickly speaking, the rifle was not numbered to the scope).

Not that many years ago 7.62x54r ammunition was scarce but Norma was selling it, though not cheaply. It was regular commercial hunting ammo and it was close to $35 or $40 for a box of 20. But Norma is always expensive.
 
Winchester sells 180 SP for the 7.72X54R for $25 bucks, thats 10 bucks cheaper then Norma Brass.

The Winchester's stuff is reloadable and accurate.

I always like Winchester Brass for my target rifles.
 
kraigwy Im proud of your daughter too. I never served but I have a long line of kin that has served and some give the ultimate sacrifice. When I was young I loved to hear the stories. I think all that has served this country should be honered and remembered with thankfulness. Thank you kraigwy
 
I'm surprised the 1903 isn't more popular. The USMC topped them with 8x Unertls, the Army topped them with 3x Weavers. The Weaver was good enough that the Army kept using them on the M1C/D models in Korea. The USMC kept using those 8x Unertls through Vietnam.

Some of the mystique about Russian and German Snipers comes from the fact that they were fighting defensive wars. It is much easier for one Sniper team to stop the advance of an Infantry Unit for a while than it is for a Sniper team to speed up the advance of a broad front. Simo Haya in Finland, also a defensive war.

The 147 gr light ball that the MN PU sniper scope was calibrated for is not the best choice for sniper ammunition, but in the defensive role and the Soviet tactics is was completely adequate. The German 196gr boat tailed spitzer bullet has damn near the same trajectory as our "modern" M118LR ammunition out to about 800 meters. The 1903 has a stiffer action than the Mauser, a shorter lock time than the Mosin, and is significantly stronger than the Enfield.

However, only the Mauser and Mosin are still used in the Sniper community today, (Norway and Spain using Mausers, although Canada may still have some some C3's still hanging about and Israel has some for reserve police units), so that has to say something about their adequacy.

Jimro
 
I'm surprised the 1903 isn't more popular. The USMC topped them with 8x Unertls,
Click to expand...

Just saw one last night. I've been watching the "Pacific" on blu-rey and the episode were they take the airfield on Peleliu (highest casualty rate for U.S. soldiers of any battle in the Pacific War). There was a three second shot of a Marine with the 03 sniper rifle with the 8x Unertl.
 
Back in the early 90's, the department store Rose's was selling surplus WWII rifles for about $60-$85. I bought both a Mosin and Canadian Enfield. While I loved them both, the relatively short bolt throw on the Enfield did allow for faster,extremely accurate, follow up shots if needed. From what I recall, the Mosin also kicked like a mule. Alas, both rifles were lost in "The Divorce".
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top