Hypothetically speaking, wouldn't a AR type rifle be more practical to have if our country was put under maritial law or our Government gave up our soverienty to the United Nations. I would think that an M1A ( which I feel is the best battle rifle around) would be useless after your ammo runs out since the 308 would be harder to steel from the enemy. I could be wrong, but I thought that most NATO and U.S. military types use 223. I think that some Special Ops use 308 but it wouldn't be as common as 223. Someone convince me otherwise so I can have some peace of mind in knowing that if I buy a M1A it would be common place to get 308 ammo if or when I ran out of my own supplies. Thanks for any responces
Wouldn't we be better off with a common NATO Cal. Gun insteat of M1A?
- Thread starter john1932
- Start date
P
PreserveFreedom
Guest
...and if you don't handload, stock up! if you own guns for more than self defense, you should have amil spec ammo can full of each caliber that you own a firearm for IMHO. Wether you fill a 50 cal ammo can or a 30 cal ammo can depends on how serious you are about it or how likely you are to choose that particular weapon for warfare. Those that own something in 223Rem or 7.62x39mm and are having a hard time creating a stockpile should buy whatever they can get cheap (like Wolf). Then, when you feel like going shooting, buy a box of premium ammo and swap it within your stockpile (ie: put the premium ammo in your stockpile and shoot a box of wolf in its place). I'd also recommend at least 100 rounds of steel core ammo for each battle rifle (where legal). Your enemy may very well have it and armor...why should you not?
yankytrash
New member
There is no one caliber that you can stick to be prepared. If you take it a step further and consider invaders, your caliber choices also include the three common combloc calibers, and 308's may not be as uncommon as you might think.
Or, you could also look at at from this standpoint: if they're all using military calibers, what makes you think you're good enough to 'steal' some of theirs? I don't think they're going to be as stupid and incompetent as the movies make them to be. Maybe common hunting ammo, like 22-250, 243 or 30-06 would be a better choice? Hell, maybe the most common ammo available, 12 gauge slugs and 22LR would be, ultimately, the best choice?
To throw another monkey wrench in the plan, what if your AR is at the smith getting a new barrel when the SHTF? Stocking up on 223 wouldn't seem quite as worth it.
The only answer is to stock up all calibers you can, as Preservefreedom said, and make sure you can carry any one of them easily with other supplies.
Or, you could also look at at from this standpoint: if they're all using military calibers, what makes you think you're good enough to 'steal' some of theirs? I don't think they're going to be as stupid and incompetent as the movies make them to be. Maybe common hunting ammo, like 22-250, 243 or 30-06 would be a better choice? Hell, maybe the most common ammo available, 12 gauge slugs and 22LR would be, ultimately, the best choice?
To throw another monkey wrench in the plan, what if your AR is at the smith getting a new barrel when the SHTF? Stocking up on 223 wouldn't seem quite as worth it.
The only answer is to stock up all calibers you can, as Preservefreedom said, and make sure you can carry any one of them easily with other supplies.
Just a reminder, the men and women of the U.S. Military are more for the people than the government ever could be. I know this because Im in the military myself. I guess I need to say this again-It will be a VERY cold day in hell when the members of the U.S. Military make a hostile move against the citizens of this nation! Any order to do so, I feel, would be blatently refused. I would worry more about communist China making it here. Now that is a possibility.
Steve Smith
New member
"It will be a VERY cold day in hell when the members of the U.S. Military make a hostile move against the citizens of this nation! "
I disagree with this somewhat. In my four years in the AF, I saw more "sheeple" than I've seen in the remainder of my life! Those people made me sick...don't expect them to stand for what's right.
I disagree with this somewhat. In my four years in the AF, I saw more "sheeple" than I've seen in the remainder of my life! Those people made me sick...don't expect them to stand for what's right.
Steve Smith,
You may be right, Ive seen quite a few "Sheeple" in the military myself. I just hate when this otherwise outstanding rifle bored gets turned into an anti-government haven. I wish we could keep it a little more firemarm oriented and leave the anti NATO, and especially the anti U.S. comments somewhere else.
You may be right, Ive seen quite a few "Sheeple" in the military myself. I just hate when this otherwise outstanding rifle bored gets turned into an anti-government haven. I wish we could keep it a little more firemarm oriented and leave the anti NATO, and especially the anti U.S. comments somewhere else.
Anti government and anti UN (haven't seen much directed towards nato) sentiments come up on topics like this. However, this is mainly a defensive stance. We discuss it because some members of our government and the UN would prefer us to be disarmed. It's a topic that can't and shouldn't be avoided.
If this same board were about golf, woodworking, or cooking, the talk about government and the UN would be off topic. There are no forces in the government working to take away your 3 wood. Nobody at the UN has issued a position paper on civilian ownership of table saws. And no matter how unfair the UN and liberals think it is that we can eat whatever we want whenever we want, no one has proposed forbidding you from eating grilled vegetables.
Anyway, everybody should know the ideal rifle in such a situation would be a suppressed .22
It doesn't matter.
Whatever gun you have, if you are going to be able to get ammo from the enemy, you are going to be able to get his gun. So the whole arguement seems sort of pointless. I can use my M1A to shoot down a patrol from distance. When they retreat or whatever, I can eventually recover their equipment and now I have some nice automatic rifles to use and the ammo. Attack a small convoy of trucks or something and steal their equipment. I have so many different guns and calibers, my plan is to use those to arm the neighbors and then as a guerrilla unit take what we can when we can. Plus, I just reload my own and so I have enough ammo to last a while. The other option is just plain theft. The crap hits the fan? Rob a depot in the night or a Walmart or some other big chain store that is going to have minimal security and that way you don't feel guilty for robbing the local gun dealer (plus he/she might shoot you).
Whatever gun you have, if you are going to be able to get ammo from the enemy, you are going to be able to get his gun. So the whole arguement seems sort of pointless. I can use my M1A to shoot down a patrol from distance. When they retreat or whatever, I can eventually recover their equipment and now I have some nice automatic rifles to use and the ammo. Attack a small convoy of trucks or something and steal their equipment. I have so many different guns and calibers, my plan is to use those to arm the neighbors and then as a guerrilla unit take what we can when we can. Plus, I just reload my own and so I have enough ammo to last a while. The other option is just plain theft. The crap hits the fan? Rob a depot in the night or a Walmart or some other big chain store that is going to have minimal security and that way you don't feel guilty for robbing the local gun dealer (plus he/she might shoot you).
El rojo said it right. Buy the M1A. Buy 1000 rounds. If you fire 1000 rounds in a combat situation, you will:
A. Be dead
or
B. Have a real cool new gun collection.
By the M1A. Because, during combat, people like to hide behind things. In love and war, penetration is everything.
A. Be dead
or
B. Have a real cool new gun collection.
By the M1A. Because, during combat, people like to hide behind things. In love and war, penetration is everything.
lonegunman
New member
Good one , Dave3006!
Jamie Young
New member
Interesting post. I actually picked the Beretta 92FS just because its a reliable gun and its common. The Pennsylvania State Troopers carry them and Hi Cap mags are easier to get. I got an FAL over the M1A just because I can get 10 FAL mags for every 1 M1A mag. .308 Ammo is going to be around but not as much as .223. In all honesty I think there is more 7.62x39 ammo in American Homes than .223 SERIOUSLY!! I think there are more SKS's and AK's in this country than AR's.
Coupla points...
John may have a point about an AR-15 being a good SHTF gun because it has _magazine_ compatibility with the common rifle. Might be worth something...
Now, regarding SHTF scenarios, take a look at what is happening in Macedonia, with the UN disarming the rebels with USA assistance. What if Gore were in the white house and he had approved of the UN committe on small arms? And got the Senate to ratify on behalf of the USA? Could the UN be disarming US citizens in accordance with the UN resolution that was backed by the US President and Congress?
THAT'S what scares me.
Of course, if it were UN, then it might be FAL rifles or AK-74's carried by the disarmers.
John may have a point about an AR-15 being a good SHTF gun because it has _magazine_ compatibility with the common rifle. Might be worth something...
Now, regarding SHTF scenarios, take a look at what is happening in Macedonia, with the UN disarming the rebels with USA assistance. What if Gore were in the white house and he had approved of the UN committe on small arms? And got the Senate to ratify on behalf of the USA? Could the UN be disarming US citizens in accordance with the UN resolution that was backed by the US President and Congress?
THAT'S what scares me.
Of course, if it were UN, then it might be FAL rifles or AK-74's carried by the disarmers.
Try walking around in a UN refugee camp sometime, I have. They do alot of protection in parts of the world where governments would kill their own people if the INDIVIDUAL MEMBERS of the UN didn't look out for them. Members contribute money & troops only if they feel like it, no one feels like it.
The UN is a disorganized group of countries that will never get along. It is weak. They only get involved militarily for economic reasons, not out of the kindness of anyone's hearts. Kuwait was about oil, Bosnia/Macedonia/Croatia is about keeping the fighting/terrorism from spreading to Western Europe. How come there were never UN troops in Ireland?
Remember, our enemies (all UN members) want us to be destabilized. We in turn, want them to be destabilized.
How many million AK-type weapons were manufactured? Has the USA been asked by the UN to send troops to Asia/Africa to sweep for these? How did we do in Somalia?
Just what exactly is a UN soldier and where is he supposed to come from?
We have more to worry about liberals in our own govenrment.
The UN is a disorganized group of countries that will never get along. It is weak. They only get involved militarily for economic reasons, not out of the kindness of anyone's hearts. Kuwait was about oil, Bosnia/Macedonia/Croatia is about keeping the fighting/terrorism from spreading to Western Europe. How come there were never UN troops in Ireland?
Remember, our enemies (all UN members) want us to be destabilized. We in turn, want them to be destabilized.
How many million AK-type weapons were manufactured? Has the USA been asked by the UN to send troops to Asia/Africa to sweep for these? How did we do in Somalia?
Just what exactly is a UN soldier and where is he supposed to come from?
We have more to worry about liberals in our own govenrment.
teufelmann55
New member
Here is my take on this bit:
1- 1000 rounds is too much to carry with you. In the event the SHTF more than likely you will initially want to run away how much do you think you can carry and how many people will be stopped in thier cars "heading for the hills" loaded for bear-If your car is loaded down it looks rather suspicious. Perhaps having a field cache would be in order.
2- One basic load for weapons carried. If you expect to live a life in a resistance format be prepared to be mobile and to dispose of, or if you are lucky cache your weapons-and use what is most abundant-your weapon need only last long enough to get you another one. If you get into a sustained fire-fight with a larger and more organized enemy don't worry about your weapon 'cause your enemy will get yours. An AR-15 or a M-1A is a poor choice of a weapon to get into a firefight with an enemy that has full automatic weapons or worse an armored car/apc backing them up or far worse TACAIR and/or artillery. There will be a lot of foolish people who will try to shoot the enemy from a long distance and then try to stick it out in their position-hit and run would seem to be the best principle you may only fire 2-3 rounds maybe more.
3 If you end up on foot which most probably will you in fairly short order. You will not be able to carry too much on your back-food, equipt. for your particular AO then weapon considerations. 1 pistol maybe 2 (a small 22 and a medium frame semi or revolver), 1 rifle or shotgun, 1-2 knives and that is about it.
1- 1000 rounds is too much to carry with you. In the event the SHTF more than likely you will initially want to run away how much do you think you can carry and how many people will be stopped in thier cars "heading for the hills" loaded for bear-If your car is loaded down it looks rather suspicious. Perhaps having a field cache would be in order.
2- One basic load for weapons carried. If you expect to live a life in a resistance format be prepared to be mobile and to dispose of, or if you are lucky cache your weapons-and use what is most abundant-your weapon need only last long enough to get you another one. If you get into a sustained fire-fight with a larger and more organized enemy don't worry about your weapon 'cause your enemy will get yours. An AR-15 or a M-1A is a poor choice of a weapon to get into a firefight with an enemy that has full automatic weapons or worse an armored car/apc backing them up or far worse TACAIR and/or artillery. There will be a lot of foolish people who will try to shoot the enemy from a long distance and then try to stick it out in their position-hit and run would seem to be the best principle you may only fire 2-3 rounds maybe more.
3 If you end up on foot which most probably will you in fairly short order. You will not be able to carry too much on your back-food, equipt. for your particular AO then weapon considerations. 1 pistol maybe 2 (a small 22 and a medium frame semi or revolver), 1 rifle or shotgun, 1-2 knives and that is about it.
The scenerio that is better is: We have 308's and they have .223's. @ 300 yards, I can still hit with iron sights from my M1A. Can they hit from an M16A2 @ 300 yards??? Some might, but I doubt it. Also, from a shorty barrel, the bullet doesn't have much punch left..
So they can use whatever they want, hell, I hope they use inferior weapons and rounds against me...
My .40 is in my holster, my M1A slung over my shoulder, from my dead but still twitching trigger fingers... (Even when you die, you still gotta take a few more out don't you??)
Albert
So they can use whatever they want, hell, I hope they use inferior weapons and rounds against me...
My .40 is in my holster, my M1A slung over my shoulder, from my dead but still twitching trigger fingers... (Even when you die, you still gotta take a few more out don't you??)
Albert