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would you use your handgun to save someone you didn't know?
- Thread starter aruid
- Start date
Christopher II
New member
hlmcfa - No prob.
wingnutx - What exactly was the point of your question?
- Chris
wingnutx - What exactly was the point of your question?
- Chris
Col. Mustard
New member
Criteria for third-party assistance
"Irresponsibility" is not the only reason a person may have for being unprepared for self-defense. There are any number of medical, physical, psychological, or economic impairments from which a person may suffer which prevents them from carrying a gun. These cannot be discerned as the crime is being committed; yet they surely should not condemn the victim to his fate.
Me, I'd rather take my chances doing the "right thing" as I saw it, than have to live with myself for having done nothing.
Second, and I know this is going to sound a bit harsh, but why should I risk my life and my freedom to defend someone who was too irresponsible to do it themselves? Leaving out the obvious cases of people who are genuinely unable to see to their own defense, the phrase, "There are no victims, only voluenteers." is very much true. If an able-bodied person is not willing to take a few basic measures for their own security, I have little sympathy for them.
"Irresponsibility" is not the only reason a person may have for being unprepared for self-defense. There are any number of medical, physical, psychological, or economic impairments from which a person may suffer which prevents them from carrying a gun. These cannot be discerned as the crime is being committed; yet they surely should not condemn the victim to his fate.
Me, I'd rather take my chances doing the "right thing" as I saw it, than have to live with myself for having done nothing.
Definitely would, and not just handguns.
"Men and women for others" was my high school slogan. I would do it in a second. The laws of my state say a private citizen can use deadly force to prevent grievous bodily injury or any violent felony such as robbery, rape, etc., and the same private citizen can use deadly force in arresting an offender who has in fact committed a violent felony. I'm ready and willing, and careful to boot.
"Men and women for others" was my high school slogan. I would do it in a second. The laws of my state say a private citizen can use deadly force to prevent grievous bodily injury or any violent felony such as robbery, rape, etc., and the same private citizen can use deadly force in arresting an offender who has in fact committed a violent felony. I'm ready and willing, and careful to boot.
Edward429451
Moderator
I had a real similar incident a couple weekends ago.
At my friends place helping him work on his truck out by the street. A women comes fast walking up and says can you help me this guy wont leave me alone. A scruffy refugee from the 60's, long hair & beard, tye died, bare feet closing fast behind her. They were both drunk. Hey says stay the F*** out of it, she's my wife. (I dont like being mediator in man-wife spats and he wasn't assaulting her so I kept silent while continuing to assess the situation). She took of walking and he followed. I watched them for 1/2 block when he trots up to her and grabs her by the hair and starts slinging her around, then starts to drag her by the hair up a side street with screaming, yelling, all that.
Well, I figured if he drug her up the street and bashed in her head with a rock, I should have done something. So I chase them down and tell him to let her go. "Stay out of it A**hole, thats my wife" So I say "You cant start assaulting her in public no matter who she is" and "Why dont you go sleep it off" and "let her go"
He cusses me out and slings her around some for emphasis. I say "Do you want him to leave you alone, or do you want me to mind my own business?" She said "Please help me"
So I grab him by the throat and draw back my fist and tell him to let her go and there wont be any trouble. He responds with more slinging her around by the hair and cussing me out. So I hit him two times in the face and am pretty sure I broke his nose. Plenty of blood at this time. He still wont let her go. I grab him by the throat again and twist him around till he goes down and he still wont let loose of her and she goes down too.
I'm still holding him down and attempting to get him to let loose and finally my friend hears the commotion and comes over and while I hold him down he prys his fingers loose from her hair so she can get up and she starts walking away. I held him down for a minute or so more then let him up. He started after her again but not so fast this time. I let them go and it was over. Feedback from neighbors later said the boys in blue arrested him for assault and took him in.
I was packed but the weapon never played a part in it in the least. I was very uncomfortable about the whole thing because they were married and it was likely NOMB. But I felt compelled to do something so just kept it to a minumum to separate them. This drunk guy was oblivious to reason and it was very frustrating.
My hats off to all you LEO's who have to deal with this type of individual on a daily basis.
I still feel kinda bad about hitting him, not my business and all, but also feel that I probably did the right thing.
So to answer your question, yes. As the situation dictates of course.
At my friends place helping him work on his truck out by the street. A women comes fast walking up and says can you help me this guy wont leave me alone. A scruffy refugee from the 60's, long hair & beard, tye died, bare feet closing fast behind her. They were both drunk. Hey says stay the F*** out of it, she's my wife. (I dont like being mediator in man-wife spats and he wasn't assaulting her so I kept silent while continuing to assess the situation). She took of walking and he followed. I watched them for 1/2 block when he trots up to her and grabs her by the hair and starts slinging her around, then starts to drag her by the hair up a side street with screaming, yelling, all that.
Well, I figured if he drug her up the street and bashed in her head with a rock, I should have done something. So I chase them down and tell him to let her go. "Stay out of it A**hole, thats my wife" So I say "You cant start assaulting her in public no matter who she is" and "Why dont you go sleep it off" and "let her go"
He cusses me out and slings her around some for emphasis. I say "Do you want him to leave you alone, or do you want me to mind my own business?" She said "Please help me"
So I grab him by the throat and draw back my fist and tell him to let her go and there wont be any trouble. He responds with more slinging her around by the hair and cussing me out. So I hit him two times in the face and am pretty sure I broke his nose. Plenty of blood at this time. He still wont let her go. I grab him by the throat again and twist him around till he goes down and he still wont let loose of her and she goes down too.
I'm still holding him down and attempting to get him to let loose and finally my friend hears the commotion and comes over and while I hold him down he prys his fingers loose from her hair so she can get up and she starts walking away. I held him down for a minute or so more then let him up. He started after her again but not so fast this time. I let them go and it was over. Feedback from neighbors later said the boys in blue arrested him for assault and took him in.
I was packed but the weapon never played a part in it in the least. I was very uncomfortable about the whole thing because they were married and it was likely NOMB. But I felt compelled to do something so just kept it to a minumum to separate them. This drunk guy was oblivious to reason and it was very frustrating.
My hats off to all you LEO's who have to deal with this type of individual on a daily basis.
I still feel kinda bad about hitting him, not my business and all, but also feel that I probably did the right thing.
So to answer your question, yes. As the situation dictates of course.
Christopher II
New member
Sad to say it, but those people (and I suspect they are pretty rare; most folks are lazy and want to farm out their protection to others) are not my problem. Try to help one in the wrong situation, and they might become a big problem.
I'm willing to undertake the protection of my family and friends, but I won't be responsible for the whole world. Sorry.
- Chris
I'm willing to undertake the protection of my family and friends, but I won't be responsible for the whole world. Sorry.
- Chris
Rickmeister
New member
Yes, if, given the situation, it appears to me to be the right thing to do. "Appears" being the operative word.
[Corallary note: In Texas, you're not strictly obliged by law to assist another person being assaulted. There go all the good samaritans!]
[Corallary note: In Texas, you're not strictly obliged by law to assist another person being assaulted. There go all the good samaritans!]
Last edited:
Torquemada
New member
What about:
The infamous Domestic Restraining Order and the Lautenberg(sp?) Amendment? In that a woman (or man) is disarmed by the state as part of an otherwise "routine" divorce proceeding?
And is then jumped by a thug (NOT their spouse)? Is it his or her fault that they are disarmed?
What about someone who carries a gun or knife or pepper spray or a taser but is disarmed in the act of being bum-rushed or rolling around on the ground (and you didn't see it slide under a car)?
Interject verbally while maintaining distance, call 911, act as a witness - this I would expect to do. Intervene physically? Hmm, depends on the situation I guess (I'm NOT physically capable of a knock-down, drag-out fight). Cover with a drawn weapon until the police show up to sort it out only IF the need justifies it (intent or threat of intent, capability of carrying intent).
Edward429451's incident seems pretty clear, it doesn't (or SHOULDN'T) matter that the guy and his wife were drunk. Did the wife press charges or did the guy assault the police?
The infamous Domestic Restraining Order and the Lautenberg(sp?) Amendment? In that a woman (or man) is disarmed by the state as part of an otherwise "routine" divorce proceeding?
And is then jumped by a thug (NOT their spouse)? Is it his or her fault that they are disarmed?
What about someone who carries a gun or knife or pepper spray or a taser but is disarmed in the act of being bum-rushed or rolling around on the ground (and you didn't see it slide under a car)?
Interject verbally while maintaining distance, call 911, act as a witness - this I would expect to do. Intervene physically? Hmm, depends on the situation I guess (I'm NOT physically capable of a knock-down, drag-out fight). Cover with a drawn weapon until the police show up to sort it out only IF the need justifies it (intent or threat of intent, capability of carrying intent).
Edward429451's incident seems pretty clear, it doesn't (or SHOULDN'T) matter that the guy and his wife were drunk. Did the wife press charges or did the guy assault the police?
Neal in GA
New member
About the woman in the HCI shirt earlier. I realize it was a joke, but if it actually happened, can you imagine a better way to gain a strong and most likely outspoken convert to "our" side?
Edward429451
Moderator
The wife pressed charges. He didn't resist the police. He didn't make any moves towards me either, he just spouted off at the mouth.
dairycreek
New member
Sure I'd try to give assistance.
I've done it in the past. Just would not draw my gun unless it was me who became threatened. CCP is for self defense - not being a vigilante.
I've done it in the past. Just would not draw my gun unless it was me who became threatened. CCP is for self defense - not being a vigilante.
RedWingNut
Inactive
I would never intervene in any kind of altercation unless it involved members of my family (most of them anyway) or friends.
I would never risk my life and the destruction of my family for a stranger who probably (in my area) believes I have no business having a gun. Me and my family come first. Just as I don't want these types to infringe on my right to keep and BEAR arms, I don't want to infringe on other peoples right to choose to be a victim.
I would never risk my life and the destruction of my family for a stranger who probably (in my area) believes I have no business having a gun. Me and my family come first. Just as I don't want these types to infringe on my right to keep and BEAR arms, I don't want to infringe on other peoples right to choose to be a victim.
As has been said, time and time again it depends on the situation, each one different.
Like was given in an earlier example with the simmunitions training. Have the pizza shop owner and 5 eye witnesses say he came at you with a knife and the whole situation is different from a court aspect.
I for one could not live with myself if I saw someone getting attacked, did nothing and find out later that they are dead because all I might have had to do was "spook" the aggressor by making my presence known or interveining.
Good example happened right here in Columbus, OH in the downtown area. It was arounf 7am and a guy was walking past the corner of a building. He hears a lady screaming for help. He looks down the alley and sees a guy trying to force a woman into a car. He yells at the guy to stop and heads down the alley. When the BG sees him, he lets the girl go and takes off down the street. A few days later, the cops catch the guy and he has been the suspect they were looking for in some high profile rape/murder cases.
The lady that was saved by the passerby had 2 kids that got to see there mom that night. Can you imagine if you had been the person that heard her cry for help and kept walking? Later on you might have reported "something suspicious" to the police. In the trial, you get called as a witness, where they are trying to prosecute the guy, you have to look at that ladies family. When your leaving the courtroom, one of her children ask you "why didn't you help my mommy". That part didn't really happen, but could.
I couldn't live with that, could any of you?
We can be way too selfish sometimes.
But even with all that said. Situations like that ARE sometimes traps for unsuspecting passerbys.
As has been said, time and time again it depends on the situation, each one different.
Like was given in an earlier example with the simmunitions training. Have the pizza shop owner and 5 eye witnesses say he came at you with a knife and the whole situation is different from a court aspect.
I for one could not live with myself if I saw someone getting attacked, did nothing and find out later that they are dead because all I might have had to do was "spook" the aggressor by making my presence known or interveining.
Good example happened right here in Columbus, OH in the downtown area. It was arounf 7am and a guy was walking past the corner of a building. He hears a lady screaming for help. He looks down the alley and sees a guy trying to force a woman into a car. He yells at the guy to stop and heads down the alley. When the BG sees him, he lets the girl go and takes off down the street. A few days later, the cops catch the guy and he has been the suspect they were looking for in some high profile rape/murder cases.
The lady that was saved by the passerby had 2 kids that got to see there mom that night. Can you imagine if you had been the person that heard her cry for help and kept walking? Later on you might have reported "something suspicious" to the police. In the trial, you get called as a witness, where they are trying to prosecute the guy, you have to look at that ladies family. When your leaving the courtroom, one of her children ask you "why didn't you help my mommy". That part didn't really happen, but could.
I couldn't live with that, could any of you?
We can be way too selfish sometimes.
But even with all that said. Situations like that ARE sometimes traps for unsuspecting passerbys.
As has been said, time and time again it depends on the situation, each one different.
I'd dial 911, and describe what's happening. I'd stay on the line.
I'd yell to the folks that I've called the police, and that they should cease their behavior.
If one of 'em runs, fine. If both of 'em run, fine. If one of 'em pulls a weapon and threatens either myself or the other one, without benefit of identifying themselves as a victim/officer, all bets are off.
I'd yell to the folks that I've called the police, and that they should cease their behavior.
If one of 'em runs, fine. If both of 'em run, fine. If one of 'em pulls a weapon and threatens either myself or the other one, without benefit of identifying themselves as a victim/officer, all bets are off.
Ben Shepherd
New member
Yes.
If everyone would stand up for others weaker than them, the police would have an easier job.
Imagine this:
Mr. BG sees victim A. However, he sees a bystander that is most likely an even match or better for him.
Result 1: BG knows the law won't allow interference from the bystander. Victim A gets the worst of it.
Result 2: BG knows that not only does the law allow interference, but as a general rule people in this town are of the disposition of taking action in defense of others not capable. Mr BG will most likely choose a different target.
(See my post in thread: Senario: What would you do?)
If everyone would stand up for others weaker than them, the police would have an easier job.
Imagine this:
Mr. BG sees victim A. However, he sees a bystander that is most likely an even match or better for him.
Result 1: BG knows the law won't allow interference from the bystander. Victim A gets the worst of it.
Result 2: BG knows that not only does the law allow interference, but as a general rule people in this town are of the disposition of taking action in defense of others not capable. Mr BG will most likely choose a different target.
(See my post in thread: Senario: What would you do?)