Would you REALLY buy one
- Thread starter poprivit
- Start date
Yankee Doodle
New member
Hey Reticle
Read the entire post. It appears to me that you fail to understand my feeble attempt at a bit of humor.
Read the entire post. It appears to me that you fail to understand my feeble attempt at a bit of humor.
I can't speak to machine guns, but suppressors going from dealer to dealer DO NOT incur a $200 tax.
Dealer to dealer happens on a form 3, tax free form. Dealer to individual or trust is a form 4, which a stamp is stuck to.
You're putting info out that's flat out wrong David. I've purchased 4 suppressors this year and all from out-of-state. Dealer to dealer, then dealer to me were only $200 per can total...not $400 like you're saying it should be.
Dealer to dealer happens on a form 3, tax free form. Dealer to individual or trust is a form 4, which a stamp is stuck to.
You're putting info out that's flat out wrong David. I've purchased 4 suppressors this year and all from out-of-state. Dealer to dealer, then dealer to me were only $200 per can total...not $400 like you're saying it should be.
David Hineline
New member
Tmorone everything you said is correct, there is no dealer to dealer tax, this is not the situation of the original poster, he is not a dealer, he bought the silencer and machinegun on a tax paid form 4, he is not a dealer, he can sell to a dealer in his state or in any state, or an individual in his own state on tax paid form 4. then it can go through as many dealers as needed on tax free form 3 but if his final customer is not a dealer it goes from the final dealer to the individual on tax paid form 4 again.
Your silencers are no different that machineguns except machineguns due to the ban have a value in the used market because they appreciate fast enough to cover the transfer tax times 1 in state or times 2 out of state. Where since your silencers can be bought new with one tax, there is no used market on silencers. Sometimes in state they will sell with one tax, but unless some special antique historical silencer no one is going to pay double NFA tax on a used silencer when they can order brand new from a dealer or manuf. on one tax.
Your silencers are no different that machineguns except machineguns due to the ban have a value in the used market because they appreciate fast enough to cover the transfer tax times 1 in state or times 2 out of state. Where since your silencers can be bought new with one tax, there is no used market on silencers. Sometimes in state they will sell with one tax, but unless some special antique historical silencer no one is going to pay double NFA tax on a used silencer when they can order brand new from a dealer or manuf. on one tax.
MG Transfer
"Poprivit you are incorrect, this is an opportunity for you to listen and learn and understand."
Thanks for clearing this up, David
,
,
,
,
,
Even if you're wrong.
[I] Non-FFL holders may only purchase an NFA weapon from a dealer or individual within their own state. If the weapon is located out of state it must be transferred to a class 3 dealer within the state, before transfer to the non FFL purchaser. C&R FFL holders (type 03) may purchase C&R NFA guns from out of state dealers and individuals. Type 01 FFL holders, who are not qualified to deal in NFA weapons, that is are not SOT taxpayers (see below) may purchase any fully transferable (no dealer samples, see below) NFA weapon, from an out of state source. If the FFL holder is an individual he must submit fingerprints, photograph, and the law enforcement certification.[/I]
"Poprivit you are incorrect, this is an opportunity for you to listen and learn and understand."
Thanks for clearing this up, David
,
,
,
,
,
Even if you're wrong.
[I] Non-FFL holders may only purchase an NFA weapon from a dealer or individual within their own state. If the weapon is located out of state it must be transferred to a class 3 dealer within the state, before transfer to the non FFL purchaser. C&R FFL holders (type 03) may purchase C&R NFA guns from out of state dealers and individuals. Type 01 FFL holders, who are not qualified to deal in NFA weapons, that is are not SOT taxpayers (see below) may purchase any fully transferable (no dealer samples, see below) NFA weapon, from an out of state source. If the FFL holder is an individual he must submit fingerprints, photograph, and the law enforcement certification.[/I]
Well played David, well played.
The dealer->dealer does not equal individual->dealer->dealer-> individual. However, that poses an interesting question...
Are individual to individual transfers prohibited across state lines? Being that they're federally regulated it seems like it would be ok. Say, to a couple guys between Florida and Georgia.
Am I wrong in thinking that the dealer 'owns' things on the form 3 thus does not require a tax paid? Or once an individual (such as myself) owns something on a form 4 it may not go back to a dealer on a form 3 to be sold to someone else?
Interesting can of worms...
The dealer->dealer does not equal individual->dealer->dealer-> individual. However, that poses an interesting question...
Are individual to individual transfers prohibited across state lines? Being that they're federally regulated it seems like it would be ok. Say, to a couple guys between Florida and Georgia.
Am I wrong in thinking that the dealer 'owns' things on the form 3 thus does not require a tax paid? Or once an individual (such as myself) owns something on a form 4 it may not go back to a dealer on a form 3 to be sold to someone else?
Interesting can of worms...
David Hineline
New member
What you posted is absolutly correct, but just because somone can buy a NFA firearm does not mean they are not subject to paying the transfer tax.
If the Stemple was a C&R qualified gun which it is not, then an out of state C&R collector could in fact but the gun across state lines on one form 4 tax paid.
Since you are the seller, any FFL-01 dealer across state lines or in state could buy your gun with one tax on form 4. Any FFL dealer with SOT would buy the gun tax paid on form 4. The FFL each would pay a second form 4 tax if the final buyer was not a SOT dealer.
You might do this as a gun collector owner of NFA but I do it for a living. In this case I am right no matter how many times you point out I am wrong.
I suggest you contact the dealer you bought the Stemple from, ask them if they can buy it back from your tax free. Or contact any NFA dealer in any state and see if they can buy your gun tax free. They can not.
http://myweb.cableone.net/uziforme/index.htm
If the Stemple was a C&R qualified gun which it is not, then an out of state C&R collector could in fact but the gun across state lines on one form 4 tax paid.
Since you are the seller, any FFL-01 dealer across state lines or in state could buy your gun with one tax on form 4. Any FFL dealer with SOT would buy the gun tax paid on form 4. The FFL each would pay a second form 4 tax if the final buyer was not a SOT dealer.
You might do this as a gun collector owner of NFA but I do it for a living. In this case I am right no matter how many times you point out I am wrong.
I suggest you contact the dealer you bought the Stemple from, ask them if they can buy it back from your tax free. Or contact any NFA dealer in any state and see if they can buy your gun tax free. They can not.
http://myweb.cableone.net/uziforme/index.htm
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David Hineline
New member
Since you like cut and past, here is the relevant section.
3.2.6.1 Transfers by persons other thanFFLs/SOTs to other such persons. Transferors of registered
firearms must file ATF Forms 4, Application for Tax Paid Transfer and Registration of a Firearm, to
register the firearm to the transferee and pay the applicable transfer tax.
38
Appendix C contains a copy
of the form. The form must be approvedby ATF before the transfer may be made.
39
ATF will not
approve the form if the transfer, receipt, or possession ofthe firearm would place the transferee in
violation of any Federal, State, or local law.
40
A law enforcement certification is also required on ATF
Form 4.
3.2.6.2 Transfers by FFLs/SOTs to persons other than FFLs/SOTs. Transferors of registered
firearms must file ATF Forms 4, Application for Tax Paid Transfer and Registration of a Firearm, to
register the firearm to the transferee and pay the applicable transfer tax. Appendix C contains a copy of
the form. The form must be approved by ATF before the transfer may bemade.
41
ATF will not approve
the form if the transfer, receipt, or possession of the firearm would place the transferee in violation of
any Federal, State, or local law.
42
3.2.6.3 Transfers by non-FFLs/SOTs to FFLs/SOTs. Transferors of registered firearms must file
ATF Forms 4, Application for Tax Paid Transfer and Registration of a Firearm, to register the firearm to
35
27 CFR 479.112
36
26 U.S.C. 5844
37
27 CFR 479.103
38
26 U.S.C. 5812(a); 27 CFR 479.84
39
26 U.S.C. 5812(b); 27 CFR 479.86
40
26 U.S.C. 5812(a); 27 CFR 479.85
41
26 U.S.C. 5812(b); 27 CFR 479.86
42
26 U.S.C. 5812(a); 27 CFR 479.85
3.2.6.1 Transfers by persons other thanFFLs/SOTs to other such persons. Transferors of registered
firearms must file ATF Forms 4, Application for Tax Paid Transfer and Registration of a Firearm, to
register the firearm to the transferee and pay the applicable transfer tax.
38
Appendix C contains a copy
of the form. The form must be approvedby ATF before the transfer may be made.
39
ATF will not
approve the form if the transfer, receipt, or possession ofthe firearm would place the transferee in
violation of any Federal, State, or local law.
40
A law enforcement certification is also required on ATF
Form 4.
3.2.6.2 Transfers by FFLs/SOTs to persons other than FFLs/SOTs. Transferors of registered
firearms must file ATF Forms 4, Application for Tax Paid Transfer and Registration of a Firearm, to
register the firearm to the transferee and pay the applicable transfer tax. Appendix C contains a copy of
the form. The form must be approved by ATF before the transfer may bemade.
41
ATF will not approve
the form if the transfer, receipt, or possession of the firearm would place the transferee in violation of
any Federal, State, or local law.
42
3.2.6.3 Transfers by non-FFLs/SOTs to FFLs/SOTs. Transferors of registered firearms must file
ATF Forms 4, Application for Tax Paid Transfer and Registration of a Firearm, to register the firearm to
35
27 CFR 479.112
36
26 U.S.C. 5844
37
27 CFR 479.103
38
26 U.S.C. 5812(a); 27 CFR 479.84
39
26 U.S.C. 5812(b); 27 CFR 479.86
40
26 U.S.C. 5812(a); 27 CFR 479.85
41
26 U.S.C. 5812(b); 27 CFR 479.86
42
26 U.S.C. 5812(a); 27 CFR 479.85
David Hineline
New member
All that aside, the Stemple as you have it is a fun/affordable gun and the factory silencer is the quietest 45 subgun combination I have ever heard. My original post was only my opinion that you priced your gun such that sales would likely be limited to in state individual purchasers as $800 in tax is going to limit the desire for the combination.
You asked it we would buy it, in my opinion as a NFA dealer at your price, no I would not buy it.
You asked it we would buy it, in my opinion as a NFA dealer at your price, no I would not buy it.
Yankee Doodle said:
Got it. I noticed the incongruent second part, but chalked it up to liberal mental disorder. Now that I know you were being facetious......I LOL'd
To answer the OP, I would buy a full auto if the price were reasonable. Right now, the price is not. If I did, it would be an M4 style followed by an MP5sd. Later on I'd get an M2hb. Hey, I can dream can't I?
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Pistolgripshotty
New member
LOL good one!
johnwilliamson062
Moderator
not in 45 ACP. Maybe 22lr.
Form 4
Well, according to my SOT, if I sell the MG and it transfers through a dealer, the only person who pays a tax is the buyer, not the seller. I can go FTF inside my state with only one Form 4. I do not have to pay a transfer tax, or acquire a tax stamp if I sell the gun. The tax stamp is bought by the buyer.
Legally speaking, there is no transfer tax. There is a transfer stamp that sells for $200 to the buyer.
Well, according to my SOT, if I sell the MG and it transfers through a dealer, the only person who pays a tax is the buyer, not the seller. I can go FTF inside my state with only one Form 4. I do not have to pay a transfer tax, or acquire a tax stamp if I sell the gun. The tax stamp is bought by the buyer.
Legally speaking, there is no transfer tax. There is a transfer stamp that sells for $200 to the buyer.
David Hineline
New member
Pop rivit one tax paid on an in state transfer is correct. Does not matter to the BATFE who pays it. If it transfers to a dealer then a tax is paid, dealer to dealer tax free, dealer to form 4 buyer tax paid.
So if you get your gun sold in your own state use the dealer to help you fill the papers if you need to but sell the gun direct to the buyer cause if it transfers through the dealer it will be two taxes, for no good reason, if it goes to individual buyer it will require two taxes, one to a dealer then one to the final buyer.
So if you get your gun sold in your own state use the dealer to help you fill the papers if you need to but sell the gun direct to the buyer cause if it transfers through the dealer it will be two taxes, for no good reason, if it goes to individual buyer it will require two taxes, one to a dealer then one to the final buyer.