Would you be offended if someone asked you?

First, I would apologize for leaving the gun out. How thoughtless of me. Here, let me unload it/hide it/put it out of reach/lock it up/all of the above/whatever will put the visitor at ease. After that, I'd be more than happy to discuss the subject with the visitor, if she is comfortable discussing it with me.

------------------
Those who carried materials did their work with one hand and held a weapon in the other, and each of the builders wore his sword at his side as he worked.
Nehemiah 4:17,18
 
Think what you will about me..
But almost to a man..you all gave advice that implied the woman was wrong in her veiw..not once..did anyone seriously question as to why a firearm was reachable to children.
Thats why HCI has power.
Thats why the second will be taken away.
If we dont have the courage to police our own, someone will do it for us.
 
I don't know the circumstances, but "criminal negligence" laws cover stupid/careless gun owners as well as many other forms of foolishness.
There are firearms and other "tools" virtually piled around my apartment, but there are NO children that visit- ever- and my friends are either already avid gunowners (like Spartacus), or get a quick lecture on gun safety before I let them examine anything of mine.
 
Well, perhaps I'll offend everyone here!

In my home, when the kids were young (pre-teen but WELL beyond "six" y/o), there were revolvers loaded but hidden where the kids could get them if they needed them.

Yep. The kids had unlimited access to loaded revolvers (.357 Magnum and .44 Special).

Nope. Neighborhood kids were not around. Frankly, if I had to risk my guns being stolen to provide my girls with tools to defend themselves, that was a trade-off I was (and remain) willing to make.

As always, I don't recommend this for everyone. I would not dare do this for some other members of our family.
-----

Mongrel,

You, better than anyone else, know what is correct for *your* home. I suggest you restrain your rhetoric when you suggest what is correct for *other* homes.
-----

To address the thread title, neighbors and friends never had a question because the guns were out of sight. If the subject of guns came up, we didn't tell "family secrets".
------------
Either you believe in the Second Amendment or you don't.
Stick it to 'em! RKBA!



[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited March 09, 2000).]
 
Its not a matter of whats "correct" for my home or someone elses.
Its a matter of law among other things.
I can see now why it had to be passed..
And judging from the way these posts have been running , I hope they pass a trigger lock bill as well..for the safety of any children that may visit.
 
As I originaly posted how do we know it wasn't a conversation piece. I know of several people that have grandpas old double barrel sitting in a corner or Uncle Freds war rifle hanging on the wall. I think my kids were brought up properly not to mess with something they shouldn't and if confronted with a situation they would leave and take no chances.


Happy Shooting :)

------------------
We preserve our freedoms by using four boxes: soap,ballot,jury, and cartridge.
Anonymous
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mongrel66:
how many people are killed by unloaded firearms every year[/quote]

Uhhh... I would guess... NONE!

------------------
RKBA!

"The people have the right to bear arms for their defense and security"
Ohio Constitution, Article I, Section 4
Concealed Carry is illegal in Ohio.
Ohioans for Concealed Carry Website
 
He's talking about the people (we all know them) who think it's funny to point unloaded guns at each other. Every once in awhile one of these "unloaded" guns goes off in someone's face.
I still say that if the kids were unsupervised in a group with the gun, you have the right at least to question. I don't think I'd like it much, myself. And yes, I know that some of you used guns unsupervised when you were kids, and some of you let your kids do the same. That's fine for your kids. But would you want them in a room with MY kids and a loaded gun if you didn't know how much I'd taught my kids or how reliable they are? Trusting your kids is one thing but expecting them to dominate a group of kids another.

I think Miss Demeanors knows something about what happens to people who know how to be safe around guns when they hang out in groups with people who don't. I'll leave it for her to post if she chooses, or not.
 
OK, you're smarter than all of us here, mongrel. Can you pick some stocks for me? ;)

The 'kids' are 12, and are medal-winning sharpshooters. The gun is unloaded, breech open, and leaned up against the computer desk because the father, sitting next to it, is researching its age. It is an antique gun that verifiably no longer functions. Did you see anything in G&R's statement of facts that would contradict these possibilities?

Or, since G&R's friend is a neophyte in this area, perhaps this was just a toy gun? Many people that don't own guns can't tell the difference sometimes.

'Course, we don't know all the facts, but you do, don't you mongrel?

And, by the way, please tell us why you think MN law applies to all of our states as well? Or, please point out the federal law you're referring to? And, trigger locks? You've really thought this through, haven't you ...

We all understand your well-driven point. What the hell do you want? Get a physical soon, so your doc can pull that burr out of your posterior, friend. ;)

You now sound much more like a shrill, anti-self defense type. If so, just be honest about it, and let's have a logical conversation. Your superior tone is wearing pretty thin, certainly with me.

[G&R, sorry we're having this difficult 'chat' in the middle of your logical, reasonable question. Even though you haven't posted for awhile, I think you know this kind of acrimony is rather rare here.]

[This message has been edited by Jeff Thomas (edited March 10, 2000).]
 
No matter how well trained your family members are sooner or later some idiot will get ahold of a gun in the open and act like a fool.

The last time I went hunting (15 years ago when I was in HS) I had an "acquaintance" point a chamber loaded 870 12 gage at my chest with his finger on the trigger while chanting "safeties on.. safeties on". He thought it was pretty funny to see me squirm and kept it pointing at me as I tried to move out of the line of fire.

Naturally, "everyone" except geeks know that that safeties never fail, etc. There are alot of people out there like that. That's how shooting "accidents" occur.

Reminds me of the time in my home town a few years ago when a well trained kid got his head blown off by a friend who found the father's .38 target pistol. "Everyone" knows that it is perfectly safe and funny as hell to fire "blanks" at your friend's head as a joke. Naturally, the "blank" was a full wadcutter....

Jim
 
Hello Rosie
There is altogether too much shock and concern going on these days.
And,too much mealy-mouthing.
If someone doesn't like the heat then they
can get out of the kitchen.If they don't
like what they see then they can hit the
road--and don't come bleating about it.
Personally--I wouldn't even talk to some of
these "caring" types,other than to tell them
where to go.
Regards
Alex
 
:eek: Jeff, concerning the difficult 'chat' in the middle of my question, don't worry about it. Maybe my question wasn't very clear :( and kind of opened itself up to some side discussions?

If it makes a difference, here is some more information in relation to some of the comments and questions above: the children are 2, 4 1/2, and 6 years old; the mom who told me this story was more concerned with the fact that there was a gun out in the open just leaning against a table like that... than in shock that there was a gun in the house at all. The gist of my response to her was... heck... ask about it! If I saw some medications lying on a kitchen counter, or some bug killer in the den... I would ask about that too. I even told her (as some of you suggested) the gun may not even be functional... even my own father created a floor lamp out of an old rifle. :rolleyes: My personal thoughts are that if the kids are that wild... I wouldn't want my own kids hanging out with them anyway. :(

I guess a better way to word my question is:
What's the best way to start a conversation about something like this, without offending the gun owner and creating a defensive and closed discussion? I think most of you already answered it... but maybe that wording makes sense. :(

Thanks for all the responses. I really appreciate you taking the time to think about it and make some suggestions to me or give me some ideas.
 
If I have invited folks over, who are expected to bring their kids with them, I will have "kid-proofed" the house. Not just guns, but breakables on low shelves as well.

If it's a "drop-by" situation, with unexpected kids, I would explain, "Give me a minute to kid-proof the joint." and then invite them in. I would freely comment, if needed, "Lemme put some guns away."

I have been to folks' homes with my kid, and I didn't worry as to what was in view. He was raised to know that if any item was not his, he was not to touch it. He was also taught that he never opened a closed door in somebody else's house.

Hope this helps, Art
 
I think, as Dennis indicated, that it's my own damn business what I have in my house. I was raised around firearms, and never was in the habit of pointing real guns at anyone, though I loved playing with toy guns.

OTOH, any dangerous object left around very young children is foolish. If there's a rifle on a wall rack, I'm certain the 2 yr-old can't reach it. As G&R said, poisons likewise qualify, as do breakables. Common sense stuff, here. Requiring my weapons to be "secured" in any manner is intruding in my business, and is not likely to be taken kindly on this end. If you're the "inspector", I guarantee you won't like it, either.
---------------
As far as any "friend" deliberately pointing a gun at me, I consider this a deadly threat. If the perp were not willing to reconsider, I would act to protect my life.
 
Had a Lt. Col. once that firmly believed that what you do in training is what you would do in combat . He treated all actions as safe or deadly . If a person was caught sleeping on guard duty on a training exercise he was furious . I know if this person was on guard when I was sleeping in combat I would want them transferred . The Col. was in favor of firing squad .
Anyway , the point is that when kids " play " with toy guns they just might " play " with a real gun given the opportunity . If they are WELL versed in the proper handling of a weapon then they know they shouldn't BE handling it when alone or with other kids .Even if it was " only " a showpiece or unloaded or whatever kids will be kids . Stupidity can be corrected . DEAD is forever . We have no children and NO children ever come into my house but my weapons are WELL out of sight . Model 94 in the case and in the back of the closet . Ruger .44 Mag. hidden but accessable to me . Also it is a single action . I don't THINK a kid would figure it out but it stays hidden . I can understand a person worrying when other kids are in a house with an accessable gun . The children in that family may be safe but others may not be . If the weapon is out by accident , that is when children come by unannounced or people with children " drop in " that's one thing . A weapon out ALL the time is worth a second look .
Once in Jump School another guy picked up a reserve chute by the handle . ( All the paratroopers reading this are laughing already ) . Well , the reserve weighs 13 pounds and the " pull " is 5 pounds . Guess what happened . Right! The chute opened right there on the ground and scared the EVERYTHING out of him . The look on his face was priceless . I imagine that is the same look you would see when a person shoots another person by accident .
As I said , if your children are trained that's cool . It's the other kids that are a problem . I personally would keep guns high and out of sight until it's " gun " time . AND unless I'm there it's NEVER " gun " time . IMHO

------------------
TOM SASS MEMBER AMERICAN LEGION MEMBER NRA MEMBER
 
Thank you Spectre Tom Bergstr Art Eatman Jamesdavid ..I thought would have to join HCI ;)

Trigger locks??I'll say it again...If we can't admit to when we f*** up, and correct a safety mistake, then people from the outside will correct it for us by passing more "unnecessary" laws...If we can't secure a firearm when kids are around, and we sit here and say my right this and that, then we arent being responsilbe anymore.Just because a law doesnt prevent something, doesn't make it okay to do..There IS a right and wrong in some situations.

The Mn law is on the books in all states in one form or another..be it actually spelled out as it is in Mn ..or be it a criminal negligence law, endangerment of a child , etc.

you understand my well driven point..what do I want??
I want people to realize the woman wasn't wrong...she was concerned , and she has a reason to be. No amount of educating her would bring back an accidentally shot child.
The gunowner, the homeowner bears the responsibility...
I listen to people preach safety here all the time...and I think its great.
But we have to live by that too..being safe isnt giving up a right..Its living with the responsibility that COMES WITH that right.

thats what I want..
 
I guess it comes down to this: it's not the government's damn business to legislate what I can and can't do.

At the same time, there is no excuse for stupidity.

Leaving loaded guns accessible to very young children is foolhardy. Should there "be a law"? No. Criminal negligence- to cover leaving your loaded Glock on the table while the 3 yr-old is toddling around- would seem to be all the law needed.

It is every parent's responsibility to both determine what they feel the safest compromise for their own family to be, and what they are comfortable in allowing their children to be around.
 
Hello G&R, <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>If this were your house and this was your gun, would you be offended by someone asking you about it? [/quote]
Wouldn't bother me one bit in the world!
Nice to see you around.
Hank
 
Good Evening Everyone-

Mongrel66 makes lots of sense to me....before the flames start, read on:

Boy-oh-boy, when I started reading this string, I knew the discussion would get quite passionate.

After reading the string the other night, I prepared a response post and then accidentally deleted it after 20 minutes of work! So here I am again....

There is plenty of room for interpretation in the scenario painted by Gunz-n-Rozie, but it goes without saying that if an adult is in the room with a "bore-light and a cleaning kit, with the action open," that's a safe condition. If there is simply a loaded firearm leaning against the computer table with no adult in the immediate vicinity, that's an entirely different story.

Believe me, I am a strident supporter of the 2nd Amendment. As a single person with no kids, there are guns hidden all over the place in my home, but the minute I receive a telephone call from my sister and brother-in-law informing me they're coming over with the young'uns, everything goes in the safe except for the pistol on my hip.

These kids have learned firearm safety from a very young age from both me and their parents, but you can't always control the variables. What if a schoolyard playmate joins them at the last minute for a visit? Keeping the firearms in a safe place (as opposed to leaning against a table) is just a common-sense measure. It's kind of like someone who lives in rural America locking their doors with high-quality locks....it justs helps the neighbors to stay honest! :)

With the recent violent events, as gunowners we're going to be called upon to do our best efforts (each and every one of us), to show the positive aspects of firearm ownership to Mr. & Mrs. America and all ships at sea. If you know children are coming over, why tempt fate based on "principles?"

God-forbid any HCI-lurkers were to see this thread, they would have a field day preying upon our "insensitivities."

Let's remember, Mongrel66 is one of us! Love him or hate him, he is just trying to illustrate what can happen if we don't "police ourselves" to prevent unfortunate tragedies.

Regards to all,

~ Blue Jays ~
 
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