Would you be offended if someone asked you?

G

Gunz-n-Rosie

New member
Surprise! It's me again. This subject came up at the Mother's Group I attend. The mom had taken her son over to a friends home. While waiting for the kids to come back inside the house, she noticed a gun leaning against the computer desk. Of course, she was shocked at this. And not being a gun owner, she was very concerned. She said the kids that live in the home were wild and almost always play with toy guns... so she was even more concerned. My experience with you guys is that gun owners rarely allow their children to play with toy guns, because guns aren't toys! If this were your house and this was your gun, would you be offended by someone asking you about it? My response to her was to talk about it. My personal feeling is that we just don't talk about things like we should... we just make assumptions... and the myths and mysteries live on.

What is the best way to handle a situation like this? Thanks! :)
 
Rather than try to discuss a subject with an obviously brain dead person, throw her fat ass out of the house.
 
I would tell her that a responsible parent would teach their children not to touch any firearms unless they supervised and that if they see an unattended firearm elsewhere, to notify an adult (teacher, police officer) immediately. The Eddie Eagle basics.
 
I'd take the time to explain my feelings on guns and gun safety- the abreviated version of course. :) The reason being I have an attentive audience in someone interested, though obviously uninformed. Perhaps I can sway such a person to think a little more pro gun than before with a little patience, perhaps not. But I will try.

Erik

[This message has been edited by Erik (edited March 09, 2000).]
 
Absolutely not. I would welcome her questions. It would give me an opportunity to explain the difference between a healthy respect for guns, and an irrational fear of them. Without knowing more of the story, I do sort of wonder about a gun leaning against the desk while kids are playing nearby, particularly kids that aren't my own that may not know the rules.

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"...and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
Luke 22:36
"An armed society is a polite society."
Robert Heinlein
 
First, to be honest, I think most responsible gun owners these days don't normally leave guns lying around in plain sight. But I know circumstances differ, folks are getting ready to go shooting, no kids in the house, small town with very low crime, etc. From my perspective, it is nearly as much a theft / security issue as it is a safety issue.

You state the kids are wild - I wonder how wild? We have neighbors across the street with undisciplined kids - bad enough that they stole street signs (including stop signs), etc. We didn't want our child over there, and if they had had firearms, even I would have been concerned. The entire family seems generally irresponsible.

To answer your question, it would depend on how I was asked. If someone simply said they realized we had a firearm, and asked about our safety policy, how our kids were trained, etc., I think that is fine and responsible on their part. No problem, and I would think more of them, and their kids, if they are concerned in a responsible manner. If they get a little wild-eyed about it and act like we have the plague because we have a gun, well then I probably don't want my kids playing with their budding Nazi anyway.

I may differ from others here, but I personally believe it would be responsible and reasonable to discuss the issue in a mature way. There clearly are a number of bozo's in our country, and some of them have guns in their homes. That's reality. And, no matter how well I train my kids, if their kids are irresponsible, and if they haven't trained them in the firearm safety rules, then there is risk.

Not to put specific words in her mouth, but just as an example:

Mom: I respect a person's right to own firearms. How do you store yours, and are your children trained regarding firearms?

Gunowner: (hopefully) Since we have small children in our home, my firearms are either locked up, or on my person. My kids are trained in the four firearms safety rules, are yours?

Hopefully that kind of mature, respectful start will get a good conversation going. She can expect people to be very private about exactly where and how they secure any firearms, and she has to respect that position. And, if she hasn't trained her own kids, then she needs to address that issue as well. Ignorance kills an awful lot of people.

Hope this helps. Regards from AZ

[This message has been edited by Jeff Thomas (edited March 09, 2000).]
 
Long time no see GnR. :)
My response would be pretty much what Jeff Thomas said. My response to her would depend largely on the manner in which she asked.

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Gunslinger

We live in a time in which attitudes and deeds once respected as courageous and honorable are now scorned as being antiquated and subversive.
 
Hey! Look who's back. Cool.

I would not be offended. And I get the impression from your story that the shotgun was leaning up against the desk in a room with kids unattended?
If that's right, they might be offended but who cares. I would want to satisfy myself that those were exceptionally good kids and well-versed in safety and right and wrong.

Then again, in my house it was much the same except the gun was in a closet.

If the parent didn't leave the children alone with the gun sitting right there you're probably safe in assuming they won't be offended.
 
I would probably do what I've done before, and first ask her/him if she is willing to hang around for the answer. Only one so far has, but I gave her the long version of the constitution, 2nd amendment, and how you should never let your kids point any gun (toy or not) at anything they don't want to destroy. My father was very strict with us on this one, and he made us treat our bb guns with just as much respect as he treated his real ones. He made us oil them, clean them, put them up properly, unload them prior to comming in the house ect...
I don't fear the question as much as those who ask fear the answer.
 
I had a Daisy Red Ryder at around age six, I guess, and cap pistols were part of my life from before then to somewhere around age 12 (?)

But I was on my own out in the pasture with my grandfather's .22 rifle from age 7-ish, and had my own Marlin .22 in my closet from around age 11 or 12.

Around the age-range of 9-11, in any one day my friends and I might play Cowboys and Indians with our cap pistols. Then, go after sparrows and "chee-chee" birds with BB guns. Might go out around the chicken-house at night with flashlight and .22, looking for possums or other varmints. I submit we knew the difference between reality and fiction at an early age.

None of us ever shot anybody with our .22s.

Other contemporaries had similar "life styles".

My son was brought up in that manner, although he never got the gun-bug-itis I've always had. He had easy access to my 1911 early on, but knowing that it was not a toy, he ignored it.

FWIW, Art

[This message has been edited by Art Eatman (edited March 09, 2000).]
 
I guess my reaction is WHAT KIND OF FOOL LEAVES A GUN OUT WHEN KIDS ARE COMING OVER???
I'm single..I have guns out and about in my house, I also have bleach, toilet bowl cleaner, aspirin,etc.
When friends bring kids over, I child proof my house.Put things out of reach, lock things up, remove breakables from reach or view, unload all and lock all firearms ,etc.
The gun may be the least of her worries, if a gun is left out then most likely there are other as dangerous, but less noticable things left strewn about as well.
I would damn well mention it, if she doesn't, her lack of action is just as irresponsible as the people who left the gun out.
Children are curious by nature.ANYONE with kids should know not to leave dangerous or potentially dangerous things about.
If the person takes offense ...oh well...Looking after the safety of your child should be your primary concern.
Fear of guns isn't the issue here..responsibility is, a responsible gunowner should know better and not just chalk it up to an irrational fear of guns.
As I recall a six year old was recently shot with a gun that was left available to another child.'Nuff said
 
Hey you guys... I told you my new year's resolution was to post more than I lurk here. Well, I've been here twice since I made that statement and... this is my second post! :)

Thanks for the feedback! I really appreciate it. When it came up, I did take the opportunity to talk to her about some of the things you guys mentioned... and some of the things I have learned from all of you this past year. She seemed much more calm and less afraid after my very calm, intellectual, and heartfelt comments (thanks to you guys). It's odd... but I have a hard time hearing people freak out about guns anymore without making a few rational comments which they can't argue with. ;)

Maybe I'm not getting it... but... I still don't see how more laws are gonna keep kids from killing other kids. Changing their morality will.
 
I 'played guns' all the time when I was a kid and got my first .22 single-shot when I was 10. Funny, now that toy guns aren't 'PC' anymore how many of you have seen a youngster substitute a stick and go 'bang bang!' ? :)

People who stick their nose up in the air and exclaim ' Our son doesn't play with toy guns' leave me cold. Wussies.
 
I sincerely hope nobody here takes Shotgun's advice seriously. Whenever I get asked questions of this nature I try to keep a level head. I explain the need for teaching children gun safety at an early age and stress the need for (knowledgeable) adult supervision. My father usually locked all the guns up when he was away from the house, but knowing that boys can be curious, he still made sure that he taught me proper gun safety at an early age. This was beneficial to me on several occasions when I was over at friends houses, where their were loaded guns lying around, and also when I figured out how to pick the lock of the gun cabinet when my dad was away. Getting mad at people like this doesn't solve anything. All that will happen is that they will walk away pissed off at you and will probably speak about the "radical gun totin militia members" down the street. If you are polite and explain your views in a courteous, but firm manner, they may walk away with some seeds of doubt in their heads. I'm not so naive to think that you can change everybody's minds, but you can at least show yourself to be a reasonable person that is willing to discuss an important issue.
 
First off maybe that rifle standing in the corner was a non-shooter, a conversation piece. I know several people that have them either setting in corners or hanging on the wall. Since My kids were brought up around them there has never been a problem. They know the facts of life. Even when they were younger and their friends came over and if said friend got interested in my gun cabnet they were told that that was not for them to
mess with unless dad was there to supervise.
My guns have always been under lock and key and the kids with no access to the keys. I have now since given up the old gun cabnet for a safe and even though they are of age my kids still don't have access, only with dad. I would never be offended and would always welcome the chance to talk the hobby to someone and the safe handling of the tools of the trade :)

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We preserve our freedoms by using four boxes: soap,ballot,jury, and cartridge.
Anonymous
 
Maybe I'm missing something here..
Would you allow your child to go to a house where the owner did not take the time to remove potentially dangerous items from your childs access?
I'm frankly shocked at the amount of rhetoric thats being directed at the woman's fear of guns..and not at the gun being left out in the first place.
She has a right to fear for her child's life...and if a gun is left out, a reason too.
In minnesota its illegal to leave firearms available to children.
nearly all of you have mentioned talking about safe handling of weapons...Isnt keeping them out of reach of children part of that?
Jesus if we f*** up at least take responsibility for it...dont blame it on the woman.
Are y'all the same people that wonder how a child could get a hold of a gun to commit a crime, or accidentally shoot someone.
Its not her not training her kids...its us not following our own rules!!

[This message has been edited by mongrel66 (edited March 09, 2000).]
 
mongrel66, I don't feel I have enough facts to logically judge the individual, and I don't think that was the main point of G&R's question. Pertinent, yes.

Before I judged the gun owner, I'd want to know:
1. Was the firearm loaded, and if so, in what condition - 1, 2, 3, 4?
2. Safety on or off?
3. Was the gunowner nearby and supervising the firearm?
4. Is there a trigger lock on it?
5. Is it normally left there, or is it temporarily out for cleaning, going to the range / hunting, ...?
6. How old are the 'kids'?
7. How 'wild' are the kids?

I'm sure I'm forgetting some factors ...

Generally, I agree with you that functional firearms should be well secured at all times. But, I've seen situations where I could understand less stringent security. And, there have actually been studies that show that youngsters that own guns are more responsible than those that don't.

A lot depends on training, and the kids - responsible, 12-year-old kids, well-trained and experienced with firearms don't concern me. Immature, violent, untrained 17-year-olds would concern me a great deal. Very young children around firearms would concern me a great deal. The circumstances matter.

IMHO, it doesn't make sense to blindly lambast this gunowner. But, it does make sense to have the conversation and determine the facts. And, I think most of us thought that was the point.

Regards from AZ
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mk86fcc:
Absolutely not. I would welcome her questions. It would give me an opportunity to explain the difference between a healthy respect for guns, and an irrational fear of them. Without knowing more of the story, I do sort of wonder about a gun leaning against the desk while kids are playing nearby, particularly kids that aren't my own that may not know the rules.
[/quote]

mongrel66 - We weren't given the full story, so can only answer based on the facts supplied. I suppose we'd all like to think that part of the story we're not getting involves a responsible adult and a logical explanation for the firearm's location.



------------------
"...and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
Luke 22:36
"An armed society is a polite society."
Robert Heinlein
 
I'm sorry I guess I'm just stupid..
So tell me ..
WHY would someone leave a gun out in plain sight and reach when visiting children are there?
WHAT justifies that??
1. Was the firearm loaded, and if so, in what condition - 1, 2, 3, 4?
WHO CARES?? how many people are killed by unloaded firearms every year.What does the NRA say...something about treating all weapons as if theyre loaded??...Or do you teach something else??
2. Safety on or off
See previous question
6. How old are the 'kids'?
7. How 'wild' are the kids?
Like six years old??..Or ..I can't remember the number of shootings where friends and family say " well, I fully expected him/her to snap and shoot those people" ...Give me a break

I'm digusted by the responses here.I would think that a group that espoused gun safety so much..a group that showed disgust that a six year old could get a weapon..a group that is concerned about how the outside people see it. would AT LEAST question as to why the gun is reachable for visiting children.
Its illegal in some states y'know...theres a reason for that
Y'all make me sick to be a gun owner.
Take some time after you read my post to reread some eddie eagle safety tips..you might learn something.
 
Gee, I'm sure glad you've got all the answers, mongrel66. Some of us are still tyring to figure out the questions...

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"...and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
Luke 22:36
"An armed society is a polite society."
Robert Heinlein
 
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