Would Obama Disarm the Military?

I must disagree. I was in the military during the whole of the Reagan years, and a bunch before and after, and I saw nothing of that.

were you in the Navy? were you involved in strategic planning? How about intelligence? What effect did our Naval Power have on expansionist aims of the Soviet Union.?..how important to the word economy and American security was our control of the sea lanes in the Red Sea, the Sea of japan, the south China sea and the straights of Malacca?

I stayed in a Holiday Inn once.

Are you on Wikpedia researching Chinese imperialism yet BTW...I can give you a reading list if you like :)

WildanchorsawayAlaska ™
 
WfrickinW2 was less than 75 years ago! Our Base in Pearl Harbor and the Alaskan shore line WERE invaded and attacked by the Japs! Germany sunk NUMEROUS ships along both the atlantic and gulf coasts thru the war. Had we had more Naval forces to defend American shores and shipping we would have Sea-Moked them u-boats easy!
Brent
 
Obama will not disarm arm the military but he will severely alter the military. As he has stated many times, he will end the war on terrorism, and bring the troops home. Though he will go far beyond just ending the war, I fully expect he will reduce the size of the military budget, to help to pay for the social programs he wants to enact. The reduction of the budget means the military will have to downsize to fund the replacement of aging worn equipment. I will expect the military will cancel and curtail many of its modernization projects, and replacement purchases. In the end we will have a smaller, less capable military that relies on older worn equipment. Which is not a good situation since the military is already using some very old equipment. All ready many of the military aircraft are going on 25 years old. We have F15s literally breaking up in the air, due to stress fractures in the frame, and the replacement F22 is too expensive for the Air force even consider buying more than a couple hundred. This is the same situation that happened at the end of the Vietnam war until the Regan build up.
 
were you in the Navy? were you involved in strategic planning? How about intelligence? What effect did our Naval Power have on expansionist aims of the Soviet Union.?..how important to the word economy and American security was our control of the sea lanes in the Red Sea, the Sea of japan, the south China sea and the straights of Malacca?

Yes. And in many of those areas doing just that. Few more years and many of us will be allowed to elaberate.

The world's finest Navy was Reagans thumb on the Soviets.

You too Ken?
 
You too Ken?

Nope, just try to read and study and learn without an agenda...(except for my neo-con one to bring democracy to the world whilst promoting the interests of Izzyreal and Trotskyism at home:p:p)

WildnowwatchsomeonechimeinonthatoneAlaska ™
 
Bruxley... Yup there were some thumbs pushed until foreheads got dented in the cold war I ain't old enuff to have seen first hand all the knuckle nuggies dealt out on both sides but remember hearing of the cuban missile episode, the threats by missile expansion of late 70 early 80ies era and than the smack down... Reagan said... "Hey ya'll we got us this anti missile system we are gonna name after a cool ass movie... AND we are gonna build up more offensive missiles to boot!"
Brent
 
Redworm stated that we don't have the right to control the seas.
The Red Man can make that statement because--He has the God Given Right to make that statement---
Why doe's he have that Right?
We don't have the right to control the seas. International waters are not our property. We have the right to control the seas within legally defined borders of control but we have no more claim to any ocean than any other country with a continental shelf.

Thanks but my rights come through social contract, none of them were granted by the supernatural. ;)

Because for the past 75yrs the USA has "Controlled the Seas" and defeated anybody who would hang our Red Man, and anybody else to the nearest post, for free thought, and free speech.
Does that include shooting down civilian airliners? :p
You ain't making much sense Mr. Red Man.
I don't understand why you find it entertaining to alter my username in your posts but I believe I'm making plenty of sense.
 
Thanks but my rights come through social contract, none of them were granted by the supernatural.
Rights are intrinsic to the human existence. You can either believe the concept of rights was "discovered" by men, or revealed to man by God.

Either explanation makes no difference with the concept of rights. "Social Contract" is the name of a treatise written by Jean-Jacques Rousseau published in 1765. Voltaire, having read a copy Rousseau sent him for review, wrote back that, "it made me want to crawl around on all fours". That's what the concept of the "Social Contract" pushes me towards as well.

Of course, one should keep in mind that the ideas contained in "Social Contract" were written to justify the power held by the totalitarian French monarchy. Concepts that were modified somewhat and used by the Jacobins during the French Revolution, then modified slightly again and used by Marx in his famous work published in 1847, The Communist Manifesto.
 
Rights are intrinsic to the human existence.

Says who? Or is this another blanket exposition of your world unfounded in reality, like the non existence of Chinese imperialism/expansionism?

then modified slightly again and used by Marx in his famous work published in 1847, The Communist Manifesto.

Don't tell us you are against Marxism, in light of your disdain for the US projecting it's power in accord with our interests.....

Does that include shooting down civilian airliners?

When did we shoot down civilian airliners?

WildamimissingsomethingAlaska ™
 
Wild,

We did shoot down a civilian aircraft in the first gulf war. a plane out of Iran was heading straight at one of our destroyers it was not gaining altitude and refused to answer calls on the correct frequency. it was not a scheduled flight the ship was aware of. they took it out with a standard missile. no survivors
 
The solution to it all...

I think Texas needs to secede and let the rest of the nation and the rest of the world continue on its downward spiral.
 
Who here has been held at gunpoint by Chinese Military? I have. They did it only to show me where to stand in line for the customs process for a mountain climbing trip. Finger on trigger and nervous too! Obama has associated with these Marxists for most of his political career. Hillary too. Just google Alinsky and either candidate, or google Treuhaft Clinton. I have seen the future if either of these are elected. They had finger on trigger and the "peoples liberation" was to the next phase of life. People who want to play God if you ask me.
 
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It wasn't just the Navy buildup...IMHO

Because of my point of view, I see things somewhat differently. It wasn't just the Navy buildup that pushed the Russians to the economic breaking point, there were other things as well. Besides the general military buildup (Navy included) there was a reactivation of our nation's ability to produce plutonium for nuclear weapons. A lot of money got spent there, forcing the Soviets to do their best to keep up. And there was the SDI (called Star Wars by the media) which also forced drains on the Soviet economy, trying to come up with a counter, even though SDI didn't deploy, the fact that it might meant they could not ignore it.

And there was Reagan's political will. No one else for decades had had the political will to actually confront the Soviet Union. Not since the Cuban Missile Crisis had a US president and administration taken anything but a rather concilliatory tone towards the Soviets. While there were occassional incidents of tough sounding talk, the general attitude was to get along, don't push them, we signed treaties more favorable to them and to us, we nearly bent over backwards to keep from doing anything that might irritate the Soviet Bear. Until Reagan. Reagan publically called them an Evil Empire. Reagan built up America's offensive capabilities, and made it clear that if necessary he would use them. Reagan called for them to "tear down this wall". History proved him right.

"Guns vs butter" is the traditional description of every governments fiscal dilemma of defense vs social spending. The Soviet Union actually spend about the same amount of money on their military as we did. The big difference is that because of our different economic systems, that amount of money was a huge portion of the USSR's GNP, and they literally ran out of money. At that point they only had two choices, and one of them was insanity. Eastern Europe, so long held in their political fist was let go. And after that, the whole system fell apart, because those in power were no longer willing to do what they would have had to do to keep their system going. Sanity actually prevailed, for once.

Obama will not "disarm" the military. But his administration will certainly change it if they can. We did not "disarm" the military after WW I, but we did drastically cut back funding. New weapons were not built, or only built in tiny numbers for testing. And even that testing was minimal, due to fiscal restaints. A bit iover a decade later we went into WWII with weapons systems that were largely untested, and often unreliable, and inferior to those of the enemies we faced. While we did overcome these deficiencies, it left a lasting impression on a great many people, and after WWII, we did not cut back nearly as much. The "threat" of communism was more than sufficient justification to maintain our military at nearly wartime levels. Things change, times change, but some things remain, and one of those things was the memory of what can happen to us if we decide we no longer need a powerful military. But not everyone remembers, or cares. And so we are likely doomed to go through something very similar again.
 
I think if we had a threat of WWII and our soldiers were using fake wooden training devices against cars with "TANK" written on the side for training we had a limited AT BEST military force preparing to go to battle...
So who do ya'll thunk bought all them de-commed mil bases Klinton killed? Who has ships entering the san diego base? If that right wing reporter dude was right it is China... I don't remember his name but I bootlegged some of his work off bearshare. He was from Austin Texas.
Brent
 
We did shoot down a civilian aircraft in the first gulf war. a plane out of Iran was heading straight at one of our destroyers it was not gaining altitude and refused to answer calls on the correct frequency. it was not a scheduled flight the ship was aware of. they took it out with a standard missile. no survivors

OK I remember now, I stand corrected. War is hell.

WildwepaidcompensationiassumeAlaska TM
 
Wild,

We did shoot down a civilian aircraft in the first gulf war. a plane out of Iran was heading straight at one of our destroyers it was not gaining altitude and refused to answer calls on the correct frequency. it was not a scheduled flight the ship was aware of. they took it out with a standard missile. no survivors
Not exactly.

It wasn't during the Gulf War, it wasn't headed "straight at" any of our ships, it wasn't gaining altitude because the flight was barely half an hour long, it was flying on a standard flight path and it was still a scheduled flight despite the lack of knowledge by the ship's crew.

It was a terrible mistake and certainly not intentional by the crew but it's still an example of how our projection of military power in everyone else's back yards causes us more problems. That is one of many instances in which use of our military overseas has caused a heap of trouble with the middle east. Stretching back to overthrowing a democratically elected government and some still want to pretend that they "hate us for our freedom".

Drawing back and focusing on national defense instead of international offense would do us wonders. Fortunately the generation that sees war as the first option is slowly losing its influence. It's understandable, of course, since that generation actually had to live through genuine threats by other states but in an era with instant global communications, the tightest international economic dependency and with the primary threat coming from small groups rather than states themselves, that kind of thinking needs to go.

Some folks just can't let go of "peace through superior firepower." Peace through fear isn't peace at all.
 
fully agree that it needs to be our primary source of energy and massive bucks MUST be invested into finding a proper way to deal with the waste - without having the ability to create weapons from it.
What you are asking cannot be done. You need enriched uranium/plutonium for reactors. The same technology could be, and is, used to continue to purify the reactor grade material into weapons grade material. Breeder reactors create U-235 and P-239 from U-238.

The only way to make sure that reactor material could not be used for weapons would be to use the unstable RBMK reactor design or rely on heavy water CANDU reactors. Neither are sustainable solutions and even then the material must be slightly enriched and/or refined.

What you are asking is akin to developing a gasoline that can't be used for arsons.

The best that can be hoped for is for good oversight and openness so that if any material was being used for weapons, the world would know about it. Not that we have any shortage of nukes anyway.

Because for the past 75yrs the USA has "Controlled the Seas" and defeated anybody who would hang our Red Man, and anybody else to the nearest post, for free thought, and free speech.

Actually for the last 50 year at least, nobody has tried to beat us. Most nations have invested in submarine technology to sink those carriers of ours. The Swedes have shown, with their AIP equipped Gotland class submarines, that inexpensive diesel boats are going to be the threat of the future. (Actually, Diesels were always a serious threat.)

The US navy hired the HMS Gotland a couple years ago for training purposes and found that they simply could not find the sub if it did not want to be found. The Gotland class subs can stay underwater for two weeks at 5 knots, longer if you are just sitting on the bottom. So for the fraction of the cost of a nuke sub, a country can have a sub that is just as capable and perhaps harder to detect. You can always shut down a diesel or AIP at a moments notice, you can't just shut down a reactor.
 
I suggest before such sweeping statements such as disarming the military, we address how the money is spent.

Going back to Salon 2002:
Over the past several decades -- going back perhaps as far as World War II -- the Pentagon's accounting system has evolved into a bookkeeping knot so rife with contradictions that it is virtually impossible to untangle. Recently, Rumsfeld noted that Pentagon accountants were unable to track an estimated $2.3 trillion in financial transactions for a single year's audit. According to one government study, the Defense Department on average does not know what happens to roughly 30 percent of what it spends.

The breakdown these numbers represent may be even larger than it seems -- if that can be imagined. They raise the question, How can the government truly calculate the amount of money it cannot track? The answer, according to numerous defense-spending analysts, is that it simply can't. At best, such figures are hazy assessments, uncertain clues to a problem so awesome in scale and complexity that it exists beyond the bounds of measurability.

"What is most disturbing to me is that, in program after program, [the Pentagon's] management procedures are so garbled that the General Accounting Office cannot even estimate -- cannot even estimate -- the level of inefficiency," Sen. Robert Byrd, D-W.Va., said in an address to the Senate last June. "This is a critical knowledge gap when one considers the fact that the Defense Department accounts for about 15 percent of the entire federal budget, and roughly half of all discretionary spending."
and also
Gregory D. Kutz, the director of financial management and assurance at GAO, says that the Defense Department's bookkeeping is in such shambles that its own comptroller is unable to access 80 percent of the "financial data needed to support the day-to-day management decision making." The department has never passed a financial audit -- which some scholars argue it is mandated to do not only by statutory law but also by the Constitution. In essence, the Pentagon makes Enron, WorldCom and Global Crossing look like small-time operators.
I don't think accountability is too much to ask. I do think that second paragraph is bunk.
 
Iran Air Flight 655, shot down with loss of all aboard on Sunday, July 3rd, 1988. It was a scheduled flight, on a regular flight path, with an easily identifiable radar return.

The military spending by the US government had absolutely nothing to do with the collapse of the Soviet Union. Their monstrously inefficient economic model of total central planning did it all.

What's amazing, to me at least, is that many people, including not just a few on this forum, are strong advocates of just such an economic model in America. The production of ethanol for fuel is a very good example of what would happen if we continue on such a path. Ethanol production takes more energy to produce than it replaces, is heavily subsidized, is controlled by a few large corporations who make billions of dollars from the subsidies directly, and is making the price of corn rise so much it's affecting food prices to consumers. All for an unwanted, unnecessary product mandated by a central government that won't take no for an answer. Just like the old Soviet Union.
 
Every single one of those is a damn good idea. There's no reason to be building more aircraft carriers and bombers when there's no one to use them against. There's no reason to waste money on missile defense systems when there's no one to launch missiles against us.

This is kind of thought that had the U.S. practicing with dummy wooden rifles and truck with word tank on them. You never know when the next big war will happen, and look how unprepared we were for a war we choose to start. Also the China, Russia, North Korea and Iran are all counties that have shown aggressiveness and a military build up towards us. During a peace you should prepare for the next war.

I am not saying we go around trying to “spread” democracy or save what every county is the current liberal cause but we most maintain the strongest military in the world. Nuclear weapons banning will work as about as well as gun control. Sorry but I will keep my ICBMs. They keep me warm and safe at night just like my .357.

Let us get rid of the waist in the military but let us still keep it up.

I bet he would also put the UN basically in control of our military.
 
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