Would a ruger 77/44 be able to take hotter loads?

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Since you guys know so much more than I do and I mean that respectfully. I was wondering if you could explain to me in simple terms so that I can understand why the Marlin is so much stronger than the Ruger 4477.
I took some measurement today and I’m sure I’m missing something and hope you can help me understand better.
Thank you.
Receiver width where it meets the barrel Ruger 1.225 Marlin 1.050
Barrel where it meets the receiver Ruger 1.050 Marlin 0.925
Recessed bolt face Ruger 360 deg other than extractor Marlin only bottom 1/3
Bolt lock
Ruger Total 3, 2 half way down the bolt that locks into the receiver and the bolt handle that locks into the receiver at the rear.
Marlin Total 1. A small flat bar that slides upward that holds the bolt forward. It mates to an opening toward the rear of the bolt that’s the width of the bolt with a hollow center to clear the firing pin so that only 1/3 of the width of the bolt is being held forward. I think that’s it.
My Marlin has a gap at the bolt face to the outside of the receiver of .003 inches measured with a feeler gage that I am able to close pushing the bolt forward. Is this excessive? It’s an old gun (mid 60’s) but it shoots well.
unequivocally stronger than any levergun sir I never said that
 
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Since you guys know so much more than I do and I mean that respectfully. I was wondering if you could explain to me in simple terms so that I can understand why the Marlin is so much stronger than the Ruger 4477.
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i'm not convinced the Marlin is stronger than the Ruger. i'm saying the Ruger is a re-designed .22 LR rifle of unknown strength. Some centerfire rifles bolt action rifles based on re-designed .22 caliber LR actions have a history of developing excess headspace.

The point of contention is the statement that it is unequivocally stronger than any levergun. When in fact, we have absolutely no idea just how strong they are.
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Bingo!!! This statement describes the situation well.
 
I don't think the Marlin is stronger. Ruger tends to overbuild everything. If the 77/44 wasn't up to a steady diet of factory loads Ruger wouldn't put it on the market.

When this thread started I honestly didn't know the answer. Never really paid any attention to the Ruger bolt rifles in 44 or 357. Most bolt rifle actions do tend to be stronger, and if this rifle were built on the standard 77 action it would probably stand up to some pretty hot loads.

But it is not. I'd not have any issues using any load in the Ruger that I would use in my Marlin. Stick with factory loads, or in spec reloads and I don't think you'd have any trouble with either rifle.
 
Blanket statements about the strength of actions is just foolishness as is looking only at the size of the bolts and locking lugs of bolt actions. What difference does it make if the locking lugs and bolt are super strong if the receiver that they lock into is weak. The Ruger is a rear locking lug action so we must ask how strong is the receiver in front of the bolt lugs, we must ask how ridgid is that action, and does it have any shapes or edges that make it prone to stress risers? In a front locking lug action, the lugs engage the generally immensely strong receiver ring that the barrel threads into and the strength of the action behind that point is rather inconscequential.
The fact that the O.P. Is concerned about whether the 77/22 is stronger than a Marlin levergun tells me that he is considering pushing the envelope on 44 magnum power levels. After all, a Marlin is strong enough for any factory or saami approved handloads.
As several others here have already stated, the Rugers strength at this point is still an unknown. I am quite sure it is strong enough for any factory or saami approved load, but would be hesitant to shoot hotrodded loads in it or the Marlin.
 
Ok please bare with me for a second. I’m still learning here.
The Marlin 1894 is a stronger gun than a Ruger single action.
Lyman Cast bullet handbook
Marlin 45-70 1895 350 GR with N130 max load is 51 GR for 27,500 cup and 2009 FPS
Ruger #1 and #3 only, same bullet max is 54 GR for 39,000 and 2145 FPS
:confused:
 
Ozzieman, not too sure what you are talking about here, as I have never known of a Marlin 1894 being chambered in 45/70. Also, what does a Ruger falling block action have to do with anything?
 
Because it was said during the thread that
The Marlin 1894 is a stronger gun than a Ruger single action
I was just wondering if this held true for the 95 vs the Ruger single action.
Just trying to learn here.
 
Ozzieman, thanks, now I understand. The single action referred to earlier was the Super Blackhawk single action revolver, not the single shot no.1 and no.3 falling block rifles. By the way, the Ruger number 1 falling block is well known as an immensely strong action.
Also, i am not sure that an 1894 Marlin is stronger than a Super Blackhawk. But, it is all a moot point if you just stick with standard saami approved loads.
 
couldbeanyone, you’re probably right but I thought we were talking about rifles throughout this. I wasn’t sure they made the #1 in that caliber but I know they did in the #3, its one of those guns that I wish I had never let go.
Thank you for straightening that out.
Also had one in 45-70, most painful gun I ever owned
 
In my opinion: The ruger 77/44 has a stronger action then the marlin. That assumption is based on several talks with gunsmiths (i planed on buying one a few years ago) and on 10 years of experience as an engineer. you just have to look at the chambers of a 77/44 and a marlin 1894, a blind man could tell you which on has the stronger action. If you dont believe me, ask your local gunsmith, he`ll tell you.
Of course you should never use over the top loads in any firearm.

Well sadly, there are alway some guys out there who love their lever action rifles so much they just cant admit that their chambers are pretty weak.

i never thought that i would ever have to explain the fact that a bolt action is stronger then a lever action to someone on a gun forum....
 
Also, i am not sure that an 1894 Marlin is stronger than a Super Blackhawk.
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It is, you can safely exceed "Ruger only" 32,000psi loads in the Marlin. The 1892 can take another 10,000psi over the Marlin.


I was wondering if you could explain to me in simple terms so that I can understand why the Marlin is so much stronger than the Ruger 4477.
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Nobody here ever said that. You need to cool your jets and actually read what has been posted. I'm not saying the Ruger is stronger or weaker. All I'm saying is that WE DO NOT KNOW!!!


That assumption is based on several talks with gunsmiths...
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Unless that gunsmith has had a particular firearm tested to destruction, his assumption is no better than anyone else's and it's still a guess. The bottom line, once again, is that WE DO NOT KNOW how strong the Ruger is. We don't. We can guess all day long but if my safety is at stake, I'm not trusting the best guess of anonymous people on the internet.


i never thought that i would ever have to explain the fact that a bolt action is stronger then a lever action to someone on a gun forum....
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I never thought that I would have to explain how stupid it is to ass-u-me one firearm is stronger than another just because it's of a particular design. Particularly when we're talking about a firearm designed for THE .22LR that has been adapted to the .44Mag. Your assumption is based on simplified logic and I already gave you several examples of boltguns that were not as strong as some leverguns.


Well sadly, there are alway some guys out there who love their lever action rifles so much they just cant admit that their chambers are pretty weak.
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That has nothing to do with it.


FACT: The Marlin 1894 gets converted to .475Linebaugh and that is not only a larger cartridge but one rated at 50,000psi. No such work has ever been done on the Ruger 77/44. To my knowledge, no one has tested them to destruction and published the results. So based on what we KNOW, the only SAFE assumption is that the 77/44 is safe for its chambering only when loaded to SAAMI pressure standards.
 
Ozzieman...I think you might have inadvertently mistaken the statement about the Ruger single action to mean the Ruger single shots. Please forgive me if I am mistaken.
 
TheBear, you do of course realize that there is a difference between a guns chamber and its action. The chamber of a gun can be massively strong as far as the ring of steel around the chamber is concerned and still have a weak action if what is holding the bolt shut is weak.
 
I grant that you’re the expert here since you have talked great length with Mic McPherson but I don’t need to cool my jets I’m perfectly calm, I’m just trying to learn from the expert.
The Ruger has a bigger bolt, the Ruger has a larger receiver at the barrel, the Ruger has a larger barrel at the port, the Ruger has more and larger locks, and the Ruger has a recessed bolt that completely covers the base of the round.
To me that says the Ruger IS a stronger gun, when compared to an 1894 Marlin chambered in 44 magnum. That’s all. If I’m wrong then I’m wrong and I apologies for being wrong. But I’m trying to learn. But I thought that along with the super redhawk size is everything.

I never thought that I would have to explain how stupid it is to ass-u-me one
Sir I think you’re the one that needs to cool down this is just a gun forum.
 
Look guys, if the 77/44 was based on the regular 77MKII centerfire action, there would be no room for discussion. For it is built in much larger and higher pressure cartridges than the .44Mag. It is not, it is built on a rimfire action and the chambering in question is the largest available. We can sit here and speculate all day long but in the end, it's all just mental masturbation. I'm not an expert, I'm just stating the obvious and that is, we simply do not know. I don't know how to be any more clear than that.


Sir I think you’re the one that needs to cool down this is just a gun forum.
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We can respectfully disagree all day long and that is fine. However, tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about or condescend me in any way and my blood boils. I have way too much of my life invested to stand for that foolishness. I can be argued with without losing my cool but I will not be talked down to. Which is exactly what TheBear is doing and IMHO, doing so out of ignorance. It is STUPID to assume t hat the 77/44 is stronger than the Marlin because as was suggested, it implies that somebody wants to load it "hot". If you guys want to ass-u-me that the rifle is safe for 50,000psi loads, knock yourselves out and report back. I have no issues whatsoever pushing guns of KNOWN strength beyond SAAMI pressure standards but that's a critical stipulation I just bolded and underlined.
 
It amazes me that people continue to go on and on about how big the Rugers bolt is, what big and numerous bolt lugs it has. It seems to me that anyone could see that the Ruger action, not bolt, would likely be stronger if the bolt was smaller in diameter. If the bolt was smaller, the right hand receiver rail could then be thicker.
The bolt is very likely amply strong, what is very much in question is the strength of the action holding that bolt closed, especially the right hand receiver rail where it is at its smallest. I want to know how the forces flow through this weak area, I want to know if there are any sharp edges creating stress risers. We need to know if there are any bending moments being applied to the receiver when it is put under tension when fired.
But, no, lets continue to moan about how big and beefy the bolt is instead. But, what do I know, I'm just trying to learn here.:rolleyes: Yea, right.
 
As far as I'm concerned it's all just uneducated guessing. No doubt influenced by Ruger's marketing and the ubiquitous "Rugers are built like a tank" nonsense. There is too little information present and too little expertise to analyze it. If the exact same rifle, made of the same alloys and with the same heat treatment was also available in the .454 or .480Ruger, I'd say yes, the 77/44 is stronger than the Marlin.

Either way, there is no reason for it at all. Even if you use the available 50,000psi data (Redhawk/FA), you're not going to gain 400fps and make it a 200yd gun. You can't load the long nose heavyweight cast bullets in the magazine, so what difference does it make?
 
Couldbeanyone your right about the bolt and size. I just felt (uneducated guess here) since everything about the Marlin is smaller that therefore it would be weaker.
But in cases like the 629 VS the Ruger Redhawk there is no argument which is stronger, the larger of the two. Both will handle max pressure but which will take it longer? It’s why they call it Ruger loads.
 
45 you really need to get off your high horse, at no time did anyone say anything about making 50K rounds. All that was said by me was that it was ok to take the gun to book max that was all.
I never said the gun was capable of taking 50K loads not once. But I said and will continue to say that the Ruger is stronger than the Marlin in my opinion.
We can respectfully disagree all day long and that is fine. However, tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about or condescend me in any way and my blood boils.
This comment is laughable to the point of being silly, you really need to look at a mirror when you say that.
You want to be treated with respect and not be talked down to. Sir I can totally agree with that and if you feel that I have toward you I apologize
BUT you might want to read the following, your words sir, with all due respect you could take a lesson from your own words.

I would have to explain how stupid it is to
Because it sounds like dangerous assumptions and wishful thinking to me
we would have a lot more to base an educated guess on.
As I suspected, you're making assumptions and apparently uneducated guesses.
That's a very simplistic, dangerous and inaccurate generalization
The fact that I have to tell you this says a lot about your firearms knowledge.
You are certainly free to assume whatever you want but if you state your unsubstantiated opinion as fact, you will be called on it.
You might consider for a moment that some folks actually know a thing or two about this stuff, rather than assuming it's wrong because it conflicts with your perception of reality.
I never thought that I would have to explain how stupid it is to ass-u-me one firearm is stronger than another just because it's of a particular design.
Your assumption is based on simplified logic
 
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