Worth €90/30% more?

P

Pond James Pond

New member
I've long been considering a rifle.

I don't even know if I should bother. I don't hunt, I can't carry it slung without a hunting licence and I am not troubled with having more cash than I need...

Nonetheless, window-shopping is still free and so I look. It seems that the lower end CZ .22 rifles would make the most sense because of all the reasons I gave above.

The cheapest around here is the CZ Farmer (CZ 513). It would cost €265, new. The next cheapest leaps to about €350. The CZ 452: also .22, also bolt. But the barrel is 63cm, instead of the Farmer's 53cm, and the trigger is adjustable, whereas the Farmer's is not.

Are these two features really worth jumping from €265 to €350? Will their impact be felt by a rifle novice?
 
As a rifle novice or firearm novice I recommend a Henry H001 or H001T lever action. The action is butter smooth, Henry Repeating Arms gives great customer service with a lifetime warranty, the rifle can use .22 short, long and long rifle cartridges from Aguila Super Colibri up to super- and hyper-velocity loads. This is the gun I bought first. I've since added a Savage Mark II GL and a Browning Buckmark Camper. On second thought, if you're in Europe the CZ would make more sense. Those two CZs sound like excellent choices to me. I'd go with the longer barrel and adjustible trigger. A main reason is all the desirable guns seem to be increasing in value these days.
 
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A longer barrel on a 22 gains you nothing. (Assuming your 22 ammo is comparable to ours here in the States). Max velocity is around 16 inches.
 
can you handle them before you buy? if you don't mind the trigger on the cheaper one, i don't see any reason to get the other, unless the slightly longer barrel just looks waaayyyyyy better to you.
 
About that barrel length thing,,,

A longer barrel on a 22 gains you nothing. (Assuming your 22 ammo is comparable to ours here in the States). Max velocity is around 16 inches.
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I'll agree that it might give you no advantage in velocity gain,,,
But it's sure easier to hit a target at distance with a longer barrel.

I've never seen anyone win a rimfire silhouette match With a 16" barrel rifle.

Most of the silhouette shooters (the ones who score high) at my club are shooting 24"-28" barreled rifles.

After shooting my 24" CZ-452 even for the short while I've owned it,,,
I will never be completely satisfied with a 20" rifle again.

JMHO - YMMV

Aarond

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After shooting my 24" CZ-452 even for the short while I've owned it,,,
I will never be completely satisfied with a 20" rifle again.
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As much as I like the rifle idea, perhaps I just should save a hunk of money and get a detachable shoulder stock made for my MkIII512, instead!!

I'll be able to field plink at more range than as a pistol, too!
Doesn't sound like a bolt action .22 would suit IPSC, either!!

Perhaps its more a case of the idea of a rifle than the need of one!!
 
Stock for a pistol?

perhaps I just should save a hunk of money and get a detachable shoulder stock made for my MkIII512, instead!!
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They allow that in Estonia?

I would love to be able to use a detachable stock with my CZ-75B.

I have the Carbine Kit for my Beretta NEOS,,,
If I put the stock with a pistol barrel,,,
I would be in violation of the law.

But I surely want to,,,

Aarond

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The 452's trigger (and sights, if you get the Trainer/Lux with irons) are noticably better than the Farmer. The Farmer is intended to be more or a "beater" rifle. If that is what you want, by all means.

If you want a better overall rifle get the 452. Wonderful rifles, worth every penny, will outlast your kids. Will you notice the the difference as a novice? Maybe not initially but you will at some point. It helps you shoot better when you know your misses are your fault, not the rifle's.
 
They allow that in Estonia?
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I've not seen anything in the law to say I can't. In Estonia making something shorter is usually the no-no. My range guy also didn't feel anything was wrong.

In any case, even if it is a bit of a grey area, I'd still only be using it at a range or plinking at my friend's farm: noything nefarious!
50-100 m target, silencer to not alarm the neighbouring farms: should be feasible with that MkIII, with practice....

I certainly would not transport it in that condition. I just thought of something that would slot over the grip, once I've removed the original side plates. I do need to investigate further, though. Just to be sure.

The 452's trigger (and sights, if you get the Trainer/Lux with irons) are noticably better than the Farmer. The Farmer is intended to be more or a "beater" rifle. If that is what you want, by all means.
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Fair point. In those terms, the Farmer would probably do... Although, as you said, my shooting already has enough issues without adding an inaccurate gun into the mix!!

My problem is that I always prefer quality, even if my use and skills don't warrant it.

My other problem is that, like many here, I enjoy the new gun feeling and I'd like to increase my collection to have more than just handguns.
However, I'm kidding myself if I say that I have the funds for that.

If ever I buy a gun I at least need a reason for it, although really the only gun I need is the Glock as I use it in competitions. The others have "reasons" but not ones that are all that air-tight....:o

If I could afford to, I would be getting that CZ fullstock .22, a CZ 858 and a Mosin. I don't need any of them, really...

For ammo cost reasons more than anything, the only one I am really considering seriously at this stage is the .22, although all 3 cost around the same price.
 
aarondhgraham said:
I'll agree that it might give you no advantage in velocity gain,,,
But it's sure easier to hit a target at distance with a longer barrel.
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Right you are, I was speaking only in terms of velocity. My brain is perpetually stuck in optics mode. I can shoot iron sights, but don't, and always seem to default to no one else using them either. I always assume there will be a scope. Sight radius is helpful without optics.
 
Let's bottom line it for you,,,

In many ways you and I are very similar,,,
I too deal with the same dilemma very often,,,
That question is to go cheap or spend lots of money.

In most cases when I have gone cheap,,,
It ended up costing me more in the long run.

I wasn't happy with the cheaper item,,,
Then had to buy the more expensive item as well.

The Farmer would be an adequate rifle for you,,,
But would it satisfy the yearning that your soul has to own the nicer rifle?

The initial cost of an item is a one time shot,,,
Forget about specs and such trivial details.

Determine what you actually desire,,,
Then purchase what is necessary to fulfill that desire.

Aarond

P.S. Always happy to help people spend their money. ;)

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it all depends on what you want..
both are servicable, but the adjustable trigger
would make it more of a target rifle for me.

if i was carrying it through the woods and wanted a good
utility rifle i'd take the cheaper one.

if i EVER wanted to shoot groups at a target or put it on a rest
and see what I/it is capable of, i'd get the adjustable trigger one..

with the cz single set trigger you can do both..set it for a light target trigger, or have the adjustable trigger..

i took my 527 varmint out, shot groups at 100m and was happy with the outcome..the single set trigger was great for that..

i'd still follow aaronds advice..get the one you desire..
 
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I like the full-stock most, but that is too much. €460.

The 63cm 452 Lux/Standard is €100 less than that and the 53cm Farmer, another €90 off the 452.

Use-wise, as I said earlier, I will probably only ever use at the range, or someone's field, hence why I'd still consider the pistol shoulder stock!!

Despite how nice it looks, I think I'd pass the FS model and go for the Lux/Standard, at most...
 
Oh, by the way,,,

Remember way back when you first started posting here,,,
We told (warned) you about fieryarm addiction? :eek:

'Nuff said?

Aarond

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Remember way back when you first started posting here,,,
We told (warned) you about fieryarm addiction?
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What?! Addicted?! Me?!

No way! I mean, uh, I can stop any time I want! I'm in control, here! Got that?

Addiction... Honestly!
What a ridiculous sugges...

....Ooooo look! A Vepr .308 on sale!
 
although really the only gun I need is the Glock as I use it in competitions.
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And wouldn't the extra little bit come in mighty handy if you were to take the notion to begin smallbore competition?
 
And wouldn't the extra little bit come in mighty handy if you were to take the notion to begin smallbore competition?
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Yes, that is true, but the issue then is "how often do these competitions take place?" At the moment, I don't know.

To give an example. I was toying with the idea of doing revolver class IPSC. That idea lasted up until the point when I learnt that revolver comps happen about twice a year in this country, if that....

So a valid idea, but in practice may not be worth factoring in.
 
Wow, I hate to hear that. So, at this range, is it mostly individual plinking? Are there no clubs or organisations that would help get together something like a monthly smallbore benchrest shoot? That could be broken down into production class and a special class, is pretty inexpensive to host too. I guess what I'm asking is- do you have any leverage to get something organised off the ground, and has the general interest in the local shooting community been tested to see if maybe they're simply lacking leadership?
 
It's just a market thing. Too few people shooting, %-wise, to make for a ig variety in shooting events and most of them who do are going to pistol comps or rifle comps.

My IPSC club does do some small bore, but only once in a while as far as I know, purely on a recreational level though: not a league. That at least would suit me....

As for me organising.... I must say my local lingo needs more polishing before I start any promotion activities!!
 
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