Words to consider

B

bountyh

Moderator
"Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in siezing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader, and gladly so.


How do I know? For this is what I have done, and I am Caesar."



Julius Caesar
 
Caesar said it all right but not Julius -

IIRC Caesar Romero said it..... Donavan's Reef maybe?

Unfortuantly it didn't make the final directors cut, and ended up on the editing floor....
 
The message can be by Herman Goering who is credited with numerous such statements.

It could also be loosely translated from Nicolo Machiavelli.

Does it make any difference?

Leaders of nations have been known throughout history to use whatever subterfuge works in order to make the great unwashed masses willing to die for the cause. Whatever cause.

I hope that I'm not shattering any long held beliefs here.
 
Now, now...

Remember that in something b.c. a cadre of suicide charioteer Gauls, pissed at the "Great Mithras" Rome, drove chariots laden with plague infested animals into the Collseum.

That sparked the great war against the Gauls on the grounds that they were sponsoring "plague charioteering" against legionaries.

Unfortunately for Julius, it was later determined that the Gauls didn't have a stockpile of plague infested carcasses, leading to many editorials and speeches, such as those reported in the Appian Daily Abstract, that "Julius Lied, Legionairs Died."

What?

That never happened?

Oh. That's OK, because that supposed "quote" by Julius never happened either.

I've seen a number of people use this in an attempt to hammer Bush's actions in the war against terrorism/Iraq.

It's curious that people who are castigating Bush for lying are, in fact, lying...

Let the whining about ad hominem attacks begin.
 
I don't think you understand, Mike.
That's OK, because that supposed "quote" by Julius never happened either
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Even though the quote by Julius never happened, or may have been forged, doesn't mean that it isn't correct.

In other words, even though it isn't true, it ought to be...

;)
 
"In other words, even though it isn't true, it ought to be..."

Now there's a ringing endorsement of sanity and reason.

Even if it's a lie, it's OK to hold it out as the truth because it looks good to bolster an argument.
 
Actually, the concensus is....

Here is what snopes says about the quote:

I can find no verifying source stating unequivocally that Caesar said or wrote this. I did locate one obscure message board, discussions between professors of Latin literature, where one guy asked his colleagues if they knew whether or not it was true, and the two replies he received were skeptical.

It sounds rather like something Caesar might have said, but I have this "thing" for truth and accuracy (even if the sentiment supports my personal belief system). Could you apply your research talents to discover if ol' Julius did, in fact, write or say this?
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So, it isn't proven Caesar wrote it, or disproven.

If he didn't: my compliments to whomever did. It is a universal truth and definitely "words to consider".
 
Ummm, Bounty, I hate to burst your bubble. But you have your facts wrong.....AGAIN. That's not at all what Snopes said, Bounty. That's what the reader who submitted it to Snopes said in his query.

What Snopes actually said, among other things:
It's odd, to say the least, to encounter a passage attributed to Julius Caesar which, as far as I can tell, never appeared in print before 2001. It's equally odd that while the passage is cited in dozens of Internet discussions concerning post-9/11 political developments, it never turns up in articles on Julius Caesar himself. If it is to be found among his own writings, no one has yet been able to pinpoint where.
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Occasionally we're all guilty of intellectual sloth; one should strive to avoid making it a career.
Rich
 
It is a universal truth and definitely "words to consider"

Sorry, no. It's not a truth at all, and hardly worth consideration. The fact is, wars have not usually been started to expand the personal power of a ruler. Caesar didn't start the war with the Gauls to expand his personal power, he used his VICTORY in that war to try to expand his power. And most people seem to forget, he wound up DEAD because people were afraid of his expansion of power.
 
The actual text was sent to CBS by papyrus fax from a Kinkos in Kileen, Texas. It allegedly was 'found' in a trash pile outside Legionaire headquarters by a disgruntled pro consul who happened to be dumpster diving when he found it. Either that or it was given to him at a cattle auction by an anonymous Phillipino woman. Whatever, the papers were authenticated by the Legion's Senior Secretary from their 'Scribe Pool'. Her name was Olivianus Dementius. She was 105 yers old at the time. The memorandum was written, it turns out, on Windows 113 AD yet the quote is attributed to the late BC era.

As Daffy Duck says...'it is to laugh'.
 
I caught you in a lie gburner. They didn't have fax machines back then. It was either by horse, chariot or some skinny dude with sandals.

Funny, but Western Union must have discarded the uniform because I see a lot of folks running around today.
 
"didn't have fax machines then..."

They most certainly did, HIGHLY secure ones, at that.

Of course, back then, fax (more properly phax) mean phalanx adamanteus exaro, or a note written with a steel pencil on a tablet of wax and delivered by a cadre of armed men.

Early secure military communications networks.

And, before anyone busts my chops about my Latin, I know it stinks.
 
bergwerk wrote:

Does it make any difference?
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To use an actual quote from the late, great Ronaldus Maximus himself:
"Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn't so!"
Ronald Reagan "A Time for Choosing," October 27, 1964.

For some people integrity really matters. Yes, call me crazy, but seriously, for some of us it actually matters whether or not our beliefs are supported by reality. It's easier just to make crap up as we go along, but trust me, some of us still do it the hard way, and we need to have substance back up what we say. Go figure. :rolleyes:
And, before anyone busts my chops about my Latin, I know it stinks.
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Cheer up Mike, or as my old Latin teacher Mr. Wiley used to say to me when I was a lad, "Don't look so lugubrious Publi, it's only a quiz!" :D :p
 
It sounds rather like something Caesar might have said,
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Not to anyone whose knowledge of Roman history extends beyond owning a dusty copy of Ben Hur on Betamax, it doesn't.

Julius Caesar's power base was the plebs and new moneyed equestrians. He and the sane members of the Augustan dynasty who followed him (Augustus and, 'til he went bezonkoids, Tiberius) were reformers who were all about public works and social welfare and, as best as can be translated between two very different settings, would be considered social progressives today. The likelihood of Caesar making that statement is about the same as Chuck Schumer turning up at a gun rights rally or George W. Bush marching in a gay pride parade.
 
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