Woman's use of knife with pistol

I have convinced her to use a different knife. Dad also gave her a Ka-Bar, and I told her this would be more appropriate... "but the marine knife is smaller than the bowie knife" she said. Yep, but it is a more modern design and is easier to use under pressure... because it is smaller, you will have better leverage, I said.

I also told her it might be a better idea to just shoot with both hands... her response "unless I am holding an uzi, I want a big knife"...

stubborn !
 
That's interesting, Old Grump, because I completely disagree with you.

The cleaver is designed to cleave, using either momentum or a rocking pressure. It is only a threat in one direction, more or less.

The skillet relies purely on blunt force, and requires some room to travel in order to be a threat.

A good knife is a threat at the point, in one direction; but its blade is designed to cut by slicing, and it doesn't require much relative speed in order to inflict a deep cut - and since its travel is easily reversed, it's a threat in multiple directions.

Having practiced thousands of counters vs different weapon types, blunt weapons are the simplest to counter - don't try to block, per se, just step inside the arc, right up to the wielder, where the inside radius doesn't allow much speed on the weapon; unidirectional threat types such as cleavers are the next simplest; but knives can be a real pain.
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You have valid points and I agree a knife in the hands of somebody who knows what they are doing is bad medicine 'BUT', you knew there was a but coming didn't you?

I have trained against unconventional weapons and trust me, I will take my chances against most people with a knife rather then try to stop a cleaver. An untrained man or woman with a skillet and I suggested 10" over 12" because of the weight issue only needs to hit you once to hurt you, arm broken, forehead flattened, sideways swing into the ribs will double a person over right nicely and it will be awhile before they can stand up straight again. A man fighting for possession of the protagonists gun won't even see a cleaver coming till it's to late.

I'm old and slow now but it used to be the instructor would keep me off the mat when he was trying to teach a technique because I cheated. I still cheat. The last punk kid that pulled a knife on me got a whack on the top of his head from my cane, second swing got him on the forearm making him drop his knife and when I swung the third time he was out of range and moving down the block a lot faster than I could run.

First time I grabbed the wrist of the kid with the knife and squeezed till he dropped it. The second two, a New York tough guy got kicked in the chest and lost his knife. the third guy, a Chicago punk, got kicked under his left eye and lost his desire to continue. I'm just a simple farm boy and don't know all the fancy moves or names of the moves but I grew up fighting and never really stopped. Other than formalized fencing, boxing and wrestling all my fighting was in the street figuratively speaking and I did learn a couple of things along the way.

One thing I learned is me and a 16" nightstick would have bamboozled most every knife fighter I ever come up against with two exceptions. One a little Filipino fellow I was happy to be friends with and the other was my Marine partner on Shore Patrol.

Back to the OP's sister she now has an easier to handle knife and if it gives her a confidence factor to have it that will do her good in time of need. Chances are she won't need it but if she does I won't want to be the boogerman. Hopefully she gets some martial arts training to go with it.
 
Old Grump, cheating is good. Among several of my favorite Murphy's Laws of Combat is the one that says, "If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck."

As far as the 10" Bowie vs a smaller knife, it depends on training. It only requires 2.5" - 3" to reach vitals, if the knife is placed well; so, a knife in the 4" to 7" range can be every bit as effective as a Bowie, depending on how it is used, without the drawbacks that come with mass and length. OTOH, the Bowie's shape and weight lend themselves better toward slashing. IIRC some things I read on Bowie, he liked to get inside and use his blade slashing against legs, or else stabbing up into the gut - and he successfully used it in duels against guys who were wielding swords.

Note that the Roman gladius was "only" about 18" long; for the Romans' massed tactics, anything longer would have been unwieldy. In the Roman shield wall, the gladius would typically be used to go after femoral arteries, groins, and guts, stabbing inward or upward from below shield level. Bowie, from what I read, used the large knife in much the way the Romans used the short sword.

Tactics can dictate the weapon; to an extent, the weapon may also dictate tactics.

I know one MP who likes to use a karambit knife in his off hand. His idea being that if somebody tries to grab his gun, he can use his off hand to draw his karambit and slash across the hand/wrist of the grabber. His retention training involves use of the karambit in that fashion; he has a training version made out of some sort of plastic, looks like lexan, that he uses when practicing.

On a similar note, he and I have blue guns that we use in our real guns' holsters when we practice this kind of thing. (I am NOT an MP; this is a guy who used to train at the same dojo as I did, and we would work out on other stuff before or after the formal class.)
 
My two favorite blades are a 4 1/2" Buck skinning knife and my 13 1/2" Hisshou. I have Bowie's but find them heavy for their size and not as handy to use in a reflex dictated situation. I worked with dagger fighters using one knife and 2 knife techniques and them ding dongs were nuts. They didn't mind getting cut as long as the other guy bled more than they did. They decided I was not nice and to rough because while they were displaying their fancy knife moves and dance steps I would bull rush them and stick them in the solar plexus with my rubber knife. Apparently I didn't respect their traditions enough. That being said watching them work out is one of the reasons I find movie knife fights hilarious, they should have had these guys doing their fight scenes. Sicilians in Long Beach California, what a bunch and I'm glad we got along with each other.

My Marine partner was more like me except I was the white gorilla and he was the black Mongoose. His words not mine. He would stick fight with me and wrestle with me but wouldn't box. Roughest day I ever had and the sorest I have ever been was cane training with an Englishman who sat in our night stick training and then he took over. He worked up a nice sweat and 20 of us SP's and MP's walked out of the gym battered, exhausted and humbled. Single best training session I ever had and I am so happy I never had to fight anybody like him for real.
 
Mleake, in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing, yes a knife is a much more formidable weapon (why I use one instead of a skillet). However, I would bet that those of us that know how to use knives in defense and counter other hand attacks are in the minority.

I am smaller, and don't have the raw physical strength of some. I would expect that if someone were to attack me they would have at least 50 lbs and about 5" on me. For me, finding an opportunity to get inside of an assailants arm reach quick enough to deliver a couple stabs and slashes and then getting out is the name of the game. Make hits where they count, and counter your opponents attacks... But you know what they say about plans :rolleyes:
 
allaround, you will find attitude is the first and most important tool in your defensive tool box. No fair warning, no squaring up against your opponent, no talking and knife, gun, pointy stick, golf club, mop, can of hairspray or tennis racket it doesn't matter. Take cover and call for help if possible or attack attack attack and don't stop attacking till you see the back of the head of your opponent leaving your house in a hurry or laying on the floor face down.

Boogermen don't come to fight and really dislike noises, bright light and resistance.
 
allaround, you will find attitude is the first and most important tool in your defensive tool box.
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Absolutely, attitude and awareness are your first, and generally most effective, defenses. The weapon you are carrying is always of third importance. As I have always been taught: Mindset, skillset, toolset (in that order).
 
Ok, since this thread is still going, I'll editorialize a little.

It's true that if the shooting ends (or never gets started) and things turn into hand-to-hand, having a knife will be handy. However, if the confrontation turns out to be a gunfight it's best to maximize your effectiveness as a gunfighter. Holding something unrelated to gunfighting in your off hand instead of using your off hand to improve your accuracy and speed your followup shots isn't really a great strategy.

Having a knife handy is smart, as is having a flashlight. However, carrying the knife around in your hand the whole time you're in a defensive encounter even when there's no need, makes as much sense as carrying your flashlight around in your hand the whole time in bright sunlight.

Having it readily available makes a lot more sense than pre-strategizing that you will always be holding it in your hand.
 
In the case of the OP's sister she practices with 2 different guns shooting one handed so speed and accuracy might not be an issue in her case, especially if she is familiar with a variety of guns and can shoot either equally well. What concerns me is does she have any martial arts training because having a knife does not a knife fighter make. Same side of the coin is does she practice with that knife in her hand because holding an object in the left hand changes a whole mess of dynamics.

Range practice is good but situational practice is a whole nother ball game. Take cover and call for help instead of trying to clear the house is the best option but if she is in a situation where she can't take cover or is in the situation of having to provide safety of others in the house then it behooves her to be practiced with either hand, learn to shoot from behind either side of a barricade and to know how to use a knife.

Maybe learning that will convince her to go two handed on the gun. From the sounds of it though she sounds like a lady who will not take kindly to intruders and could be a menace to boogermen who enter her domain.
 
As I mentioned, she had 2 years of tae kwon do as a kid, I am guessing ages 13 to 15. After that, gymnastics,figure skating, and boys were more her interests.

So she understands the basics of striking with a fist, kicking, blocking. She wasn't great at sparing, but she was good.

The 1911 is her husbands gun. The glock she considers her gun, because she is very proud of the extremely low price she paid for it. A local police department was switching from 9mm to 40 and they were practically giving them away.

The knife thing... well, I think she has a "thing" for big knives. Her husband just smiled at me when I tried to talk her out of it. In the end she is going to do exactly what she wants to do, without regard to what I or her husband, or anyone else thinks she should do.
 
Does she actually carry a 1911 and a 10" Bowie knife everywhere she goes?

I think carrying around that much weight would kinda suck.

And a 10" Bowie would be kinda awkward on the belt while getting in and out of the car.
 
I understand her rationale, and it is interesting.
However, you are talking about defense in her home, and I have to wonder why in that environment she would voluntarily get into a "hallway" confrontation. The pistol gives you the advantage of inflicting injury at a distance. Why get into close quarters when it is wiser to stay in a larger space waiting for an intruder? If she's in her bedroom, why not call 911 and wait, with a more secure 2-hand hold on her weapon? Is she thinking about house clearing? That's a job for pro's.
 
TDI/Ka-Bar; CQB, tactics...

Im not Tactical Ted or a Ninja Master & do not espouse the "way of the Warrior" belief system but I have heard-read a few sources that say; "if you get into a knife fight you will get cut.

Id suggest a small, sharp Tanto type blade that can gash, cut, stab quickly.
The slick Ka-Bar TDI tanto comes to my mind.
The tall female could carry-deploy the pistol then in a CQB/point blank attack, pull out the TDI & use it.

If she has the space, $$$, etc she should practice these CQB tactics(gun & blade) with a CPR dummy or human size polymer-rubber training aid.
To "attack" milk jugs filled with red-guts like goo would show her how she'd react in a dynamic, high stress event.

CF
ps: Many, many years ago, as a young US Army MP, a E-6/SSG in my platoon told me about a call he had in Germany where a female family member killed her soldier husband with a large kitchen knife. The victim was laying(dead) at the top of the stairs/hall in a 6 story apt bldg. The MP Sgt told me the victim's blood(a lot of it) flowed all the way to the front door/first floor! :eek:
 
A knife is really an experts tool. You need to be a skilled fighter to inflict a instant incapaciting wound. Stab someone in the gut or cut their arm and they may bleed out, eventually, but they will have a lot of fight in them. It is better than nothing but no way I'm going to tie up my left hand with one. If I carry something in my weak hand it will be a flashlight or spare mag.
 
Seems like she is making things pretty complicated, It seems like it would be more effective to focus on the gun, shooting and not getting it taken away.

The most popular tactic for not getting a gun taken away in a close quarters fight is to use both hands and hold close to you, seems like a knife in the other hand would make this difficult.

I guess I am one of those keep it simple type of guys.
 
I am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination. I can agree that most people do not know how to properly use an edged “tool” for self-defense. I can also attest that one does not have to be a scholar in order to be effective with a knife.

Here is a link to a video that shows a man with a knife attacking multiple law enforcement officers (not sure of country of origin) who have firearms. Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75RTkGbiJpk

I don’t think using a knife in one hand and a pistol in the other (simultaneously) is a good idea at all. Use one or the other but not both, unless you are using the knife as a retention tool for the firearm. I would advise some professional training.
 
I actually teach and practice some techniques around this idea. I've been doing Martial Arts for 11 years and specialize in edged weapons.

I think what some people don't see is that having the knife is really just to assist in retention of the gun. This ISN'T a "knife fight", this isn't a situation to rely on the knife to kill your opponent. The knife is used to gain distance if the opponent reaches for the gun. Now, in the fashion I use it, the knife is in an "icepick" grip, edge in. This creates a hook with an edge that is mostly used to pry down and against the direction of the opponents wrist. Using downward pressure is easier for weaker opponents, and going against the skeletal structure is more important than the wound created by the edge. To be careful, the gun is swept down to angle it away from the opponent and put the knife forward. Gain some space and get the gun up. I include other techniques to cause more lethal wounds, but mostly for those who want to learn them. I also prefer to use knives that have a slim enough handle that they can be held while both hands are on the gun.

Again, there is the disclaimer. Pain doesn't always work for compliance, some people won't even notice a cut or stab until it's too late. Being that close to your opponent when you cut them increases your risk of contracting a blood born disease. Techniques like I talked about require some skill, which means practice, and no hesitation. Reaction time is important, having no reservations about using the knife is just as important. Using a knife is not like pulling a trigger, anything you scrape will be felt through the knife, so mindset is important. There is no perfect opponent who allows the technique to work right, there's a chance they will throw punched or low kicks, this is something to be dealt with.
 
If she insists on having a knife, then suggest to her a knife designed for her intended purpose... of getting the bad guy to back the hell up so she can employ the firearm. Something like a Ka-Bar TDI or the Benchmade SOCP dagger.

The SOCP has a very thin handle that will not alter a two hand pistol grip by much. The pummel end is a ring that you put your index finger in and makes for a very secure grip with great difficulty in disarming. This may not be legal for carry in some states as it's a dagger (both edges sharpened). They also make a set that comes with the actual dagger and a metal trainer knife that fits in the sheath and could possibly work as a kubotan type weapon of it's own.
 
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