Woman's use of knife with pistol

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btmj

New member
My wife and I were talking with my sister a couple of days ago, talking about defending oneself in the home, and similar topics. We were at her house. She told me that she practices shooting her 1911 and Glock 19 one handed most of the time, because she expects that in an emergency she would have her knife in her left hand.

I asked her to elaborate. She explained that her house has small rooms and tight hallways, and most encounters with bad guys would be at close range... I said "bad breath distance" and she said Exactly ! She fears that the bad guys might try to wrestle the gun from her, and she believes she would have a much better chance of retaining the gun if she also had a knife. In her words, "the SOB would have take the gun and the knife away from me simultaneously, otherwise he is going to be bleeding badly, either from a bullet or from the knife." At 44, she is tall and athletic. I think it would be difficult to tackle her thus armed, without getting shot, stabbed, or both.

She showed me the knife, and I recognized it... a heavy Bowie knife with about a 10 inch blade. My Dad was an avid knife collector, and when we were teens / young adults he gave me and my siblings a variety of knives. The Bowie knife was a gift to her long ago.

Now my question is this... Her plan seems well thought out, but I have never heard or seen of any training that emphasizes a pistol in the right hand, and a large knife in the other.

Thoughts? Not that it will make any difference what I tell her, the woman can be incredibly stubborn. :)
 
The main concern with such techniques, is insuring that the non-shooting hand remains unshot.

Usually, these techniques involve the shooting being done from a one-handed retention position which pulls the gun in tight against the body in a comfortable position about midway up the torso. It's intended to make it much more difficult for the attacker to access the firearm.

A common approach for protecting the non-shooting hand is blocking out areas for it to operate that won't ever be covered by the muzzle.

More conventionally, shooting with one hand and defending/striking with the other involves an empty non-shooting hand. It's used to block blows to the face (hand and arm are high and out of the area covered by the handgun) or to administer pushes/strikes high on the target.

What she's suggesting isn't really terribly off-the-wall, but it's not a basic technique. She should really get some instruction from someone who teaches techniques similar to her intended approach.
 
What you're suggesting sounds like some Close Quarters Battle (CQB) techniques used by Special Operations types (and in video games). The pistol is held in the strong hand and a knife is held upside down in the weak hand. The weak hand goes under the strong hand wrist and the backs of your hands press together similar to using a flashlight. The problem with this is... the SpecOps guys are very well trained in this system. I would suggest that a two-handed grip on the weapon would give better security than having two weapons. I feel that practicing shooting from retention positions would be more effective than trying to learn advanced CQB techniques.
 
Me thinks your Sister is reasonably correct, my problem with it, that is a very big knife! A double edged 4" Blade would be easier to use, and retain.

An old kit bag, well wrapped in duct tape, great for hanging in the garage, and use to practice on. Might change her mind

I would not use this idea, if I had to shoot one handed, I could, 40 years of bulls eye shooting has me real comfy with the one hand gun. But two handed is better, quicker reset after first, and multiple shots, more accurate too.

You can always go to one hand, but the off hand empty give you door opening, and blocking uses. Just an old guys opinion.
 
I am in the get training camp. That knife is to big for good close quarter combat using the offhand unless she is extraordinarily strong and ambidextrous. At least 4" but not more than 5" of blade would be handier and easier to keep control of and harder for a bad guy to try and take from her, a dagger would be good for this use.

Grew up playing rough and learned to stick fight along the way so my Maglight flashlight held FBI style works for me. I have the bright light in the eyes effect and a heavy sturdy noggin busting club to back it up. I am primarily a one handed shooter myself and see little problem with that as long as she continues to practice that way but I would encourage her to train with weakhand shooting too, you never know if your dominate arm will be available when its time to shoot.

Just dos centavos from a dinosaur.
 
I agree with John and the others. It's not an unheard of technique, it's one that does require specific training by a qualified instructor. I've had training in it and am still training in it. (To me a person can never get enough training).
I actually made a veiled reference to it in a reply I posted about a month ago on a thread:
I always think in the terms of you never know when you might need to be using an arm or hand for deflection or close combat while using your other one to make a quick draw and get your shot off. Hence why I prefer my crossbreed IWB in a combat cut, carried on the backside of my hip area. I can draw with a clean sweep and not have to worry about snatching clothes up (and I will admit, surgically enhanced female parts, like trying to appendix carry.) That leaves my other hand/arm free to throw up a block, etc.
Click to expand...
 
It's easier to learn to use a gun then a knife. Get proper training and you shouldn't have to worry about the bandit getting yor gun.

I teach a women's firearm safety and self defense class.

Notice I said "self defense" and not "shooting" class. It's rather I conventuals we deal with what occurred in the real world, an couple examples; I use a rather large rag doll. The lady has it by the hand and has to pull the doll behind her to protect it while she engages the target.

Another and more on topic is the shoulder stap of a purse is attached to the target stand and the lady has to engage the target while pulling the purse AND protecting the handgun.

I use several similar scanarios but you get the idea... I don't do knives, I stress having the pistol/revolver on your person or with in reach 24/7.
 
Thanks for all the thoughts. I was also thinking that this technique of hers was an advanced technique more suitable to someone with a high level of training. Her training consists of a two years of tae kwon do as a teen (20 years ago), and more recently she and her husband go to the shooting range a couple of times a year. She is not exactly what you might call SAS :)

I am not going to be able to talk her out of the knife... my sister is just that way. But I might be able to talk her into something more appropriately sized. Maybe not... honestly if she had a machete or a sword, I think she would use that !

I am not sure where she got this idea, but Habaz72 mentioned video games. Her son played a lot of games when he was a teenager, so maybe that was it.

Thanks again for your thoughts...
 
I know a guy who has had two knife kills in our recent conflicts, both times when an enemy tried to take/wrestle for his rifle. Rather than fight over the rifle, and with his pistol hand occupied/blocked by the enemy's relative position, he drew knife with weak hand and decisively ended both encounters.

So, yes, this technique can work very well.

But yes, the guy in question is a SOF type, and has had at least some training.

She may already train; if she does not, then she might look for an escrima or arnis class, since they train at fighting with a knife or stick in either hand, or two knives or two sticks.
 
I would have thought she should be phoning the police and waiting for the BG to come to her. If he doesn't and leaves the house that's good. Walking around the house looking for him is not a good idea unless she has no choice. If she is going down that road and thinks one firearm is not enough why not carry two better than one and a knife. PS Most people would be happy with one firearm.
 
I carry a knife with me on a daily basis, and one stays on my nightstand; however, if I hear a bump in the night I grab my firearm, and in my weak hand I grab a flashlight.

I have had knife training, and every knife instructor will tell you that the object of coming out of a knife fight is to be bleeding less than your opponent as opposed to not bleeding at all.

I do not recommend people put a knife as a defensive tool unless they actually know how to use it from getting training in that area. A knife is rarely an instantaneously incapacitating weapon. A crowbar in the hands of a criminal is a much more formidable weapon than a 10" knife in the hands of a person who has no idea how to use it defensively.

IMO, your sister should leave the knife away, and either use her weak hand to get a proper two-handed grip on her firearm, or use it to hold a flashlight.
 
Get her a pistol bayonet!!!!
Oh please tell us that was a joke

Nope. Not a joke - they fit on the rail.

http://www.knifecenter.com/item/KA9...ife-PB-1-with-275-inch-Blade-Quick-Detachable

9900.jpg
 
I know how they work and fit on the gun but I also know that a pistol grip is a poor hilt for a knife and a blade in front of the muzzle is a lever for the bad guy to push the muzzle away from him. Anytime you add hardware to a gun you add weight, ruin the balance and make something else that can go wrong. More better would be a flash light with lots of lumens and some solid weight. That or a shotgun is what floats my boat.
 
Pistol bayonet.

Okay. How long before we see some Rambo in a movie whip his pistol overhand and impale somebody half way across a room?

(Probably already happened.)
 
Few men know how to knife-fight or anything about it. Only in the movies does someone fall down and dies instantly from a knife wound. I know where the effective targets are in the human body, subclavial arterys, carotids, femorals, kidneys, etc., and I would not use a knife if a gun were available. Use the handgun and be done with it.
 
Few men know how to knife-fight or anything about it. Only in the movies does someone fall down and dies instantly from a knife wound. I know where the effective targets are in the human body, subclavial arterys, carotids, femorals, kidneys, etc., and I would not use a knife if a gun were available. Use the handgun and be done with it.
Click to expand...

Yup yup and triple yup. In spite of my knife fetish as indicated by a strange collection of working, hunting, survival and combat knives I would prefer a club to a knife and a gun to a club. Especially now that I'm not as strong, agile and as quick as I used to be. I hurt myself laughing everytime I see a knife fight on TV or in the movies. I'd worry more about a cleaver or a 10" cast iron skillet than I would a 10" Bowie knife.
 
If your sister is well coordinated with both hands, then I don't see a problem. What I mean is this: If she can switch weapons hand to hand and still be effective then likely she's got enough coordination to shoot and stab or slash as necessary. If she cannot yet do this, then the necessary practice must be undertaken: otherwise, she might be better off focusing on just using the gun. P.S. One more thing to check is if the Bowie knife is the best knife for a close quarters encounter. As I read it, Bowie's knife was an advantage in great part because of its size, yet only some attack situations would be best served by a Bowie knife, and she should find out if fighting in her home's small rooms or tight hallways is one of these.
 
That's interesting, Old Grump, because I completely disagree with you.

The cleaver is designed to cleave, using either momentum or a rocking pressure. It is only a threat in one direction, more or less.

The skillet relies purely on blunt force, and requires some room to travel in order to be a threat.

A good knife is a threat at the point, in one direction; but its blade is designed to cut by slicing, and it doesn't require much relative speed in order to inflict a deep cut - and since its travel is easily reversed, it's a threat in multiple directions.

Having practiced thousands of counters vs different weapon types, blunt weapons are the simplest to counter - don't try to block, per se, just step inside the arc, right up to the wielder, where the inside radius doesn't allow much speed on the weapon; unidirectional threat types such as cleavers are the next simplest; but knives can be a real pain.
 
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