Woman and pistols, a question to the females here.

M

mordis

New member
I was discussing with my wife recently about getting her some range training and her permit and along with the discussion came talk about what she would like in a carry gun.

Back when i was working third shift, she kept my G17 close by for protectionm, but i always had to be the one to load it, be cuase she could not easily retract the slide. In fact she said it was very hard to pull the slide back, and i would watch here do it and she would struggle and struggle. At first i thought she was just trying to be gentle with it so she wouldnt break it, and when i asked about the awkward way she grabbed the slide, she said she didnt want her hand to get pinched, but her biggest problem is it is hard for her to pull the slide back.

I asked my sister, who is also considering here permit, and she said, that she to has a hard time pulling the slide back on her BF's .40sw. Now my sister works out and is in great shape so i was alittle suprised by this. She stated she does not like revolvers but are easier to load becuase they dont need to have a slide racked.

Both the woman in my life would like to carry auto pistols but are having problems with the slide. Any one here have any experiances like this, and reccomendations? My advice was to rip that thing back as fast as you can and dont be shy about it, but that didnt work for them lol.

Id like to here from the girls here and hear there experiances with the situation.

From my perspective, its a odd problem, becuse pulling the slide back is effortless and easy for me, tho i am alot stronger then they are.. maybe thats why.

Thirdly Ladies, what could you reccomend for a good starter pistol for a couple of newbies. Id like a ladies perspective on this, becuase there needs are different. Thanks again guys, now im off to the zoo for a couple of hours.
 
What Kathy said about automatics.

However, even that won't help if you have small or weak hands and you're dealing with a new, stiff, and/or large automatic. I simply cannot rack the slide on my husband's Springfield XD-M 9mm semiautomatic. He has great big hands; I have squat little hands with short fingers. I simply haven't got the reach or leverage to unlock the safety easily, or to rack his gun. A friend's Beretta PX4 Storm 9mm, however, is easy. The differences were that my friend had shot a few thousand rounds through the Beretta (the XD-M was new) and it was much smaller so I could reach the safety with my right thumb and didn't need to use two hands.

If you and/or some friends have a good collection of different handguns in self-defense calibers (.380, .38 special, 9mm Luger, .357, etc.), you should head for the range with them, a good selection of ammo (including some self-defense loads, not just target loads -- they feel different) and your wife. Let her shoot each of them. If you don't have a gun collection, find a local firearms instructor who does and who rents his out, bring ammo, otherwise same thing. Then, let her pick what's right for her.

After checking out all of the options, I decided to go with a small revolver, but don't believe the stereotyped nonsense from some "experts" that women can't handle semiautomatics. Any issue is far more likely to be with the specific gun, not whether it's revolver or semiautomatic.
 
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That's one of the reasons my wife went with the Bersa .380cc. It was one of the only semi-autos she could rack the slide on and pull the DA trigger on. This was before we found Pax's awesome site, but it's still nice for her to have a gun that's easy to operate.
 
My wife is small, plus she broke her back twice, and has three rods between her shoulder blades.

She has no upper body strenght and can't work the slide. I agree with Pax that the way to do it is Push the Pistol out instead of pullng the slide back.

I got my wife a PPK, after taking her to a couple gun shops trying to fined a semi she could work. The PPK was the best, but still she has problems. We had to go to a revolver for her. Some people just cant do it for one reason or another.

The PPK goes to my grandaughter, or will when I get it back from Smith.
 
Pax gave good advice. Except on pistols with very tiny slides, I hold the rear top of the slide with my non-dominant hand, and punch forward with my dominant hand, which is gripping.
 
Well we talked about it, and she still would like a auto, but when we go to training, shell try the revolver. Im gonna print out the stuff on pax's link so i can review it with her later. Now i just gotta come up with $300 to pay for the training at the range for my wife. The range when you pay the money, does one on one training and allows you to try a few different types of guns up to a maximum of 300 rounds of ammo. Until then ill have her practice the slide racking technique on my .45
 
Dear Mordis,
Don't give up on finding her a pistol yet. If your lady has her heart set on a semiauto, then keep looking; not all pistols have the same degree of "stiff" or take the same amount of strength to rack (in my own experience, at least). While I agree there are probably a few who simply cannot rack a slide on any of 'em, the operative word there is "few". And a +1 on Kathy's website for advice. That worked wonders for a friend of mine who was having trouble with racking.

Besides the advice on rentals, you might ask whoever her instructor is going to be (or maybe your fave gun dealer) if he knows some other ladies in your immediate area who are into shooting. Chances are good that one or two of 'em might meet y'all at the range and let her try theirs out. I suppose that might depend on where you live, but where I am, gun lovers are friendly folks ... & we gun-gals love to add to our number and are always encouraging others women to join in.

Good luck and let us know when she finds "her first very own" one.:)

Penny
 
Have her grow stronger or look into a different weapon. Beretta made a .380 auto with a tip up barrel. I used to have one and it shot wonderfully.
 
Yeah, a tip-up Beretta, but I think it's a .32. She could go without racking. Show her one. It's the only non-racking centerfire semiauto I know of. I hope she remains jam-free.

8 rounds of .32 Auto or 5 rounds of .38 SPL? Hmmm....
 
Guys ~

It always hurts my heart to see how often people enthusiastically jump in to recommend last-resort and expensive solutions to "fix" a fairly simple problem.

After 7 years of working pretty steadily as an assistant at a high volume shooting school, I have still never encountered a healthy adult woman who could not be taught to rack the slide. (Note the word "healthy", please -- arthritis and other physical maladies come with their own set of challenges.)

There's a place for these tiny little compromise pistols, but it's not in the hands of a young woman who can easily be taught to hold the gun competently and rack the slide capably with just five minutes of instruction from someone who's seen the problem before & knows how to tackle it.

Ditto revolvers, by the way. I love revolvers and firmly believe they belong in the hands of anyone who wants to use them. They don't belong in the hands of someone who's using one only because she, or someone she loves, is convinced that she's physically incapable of running a modern firearm, or that she's too mentally dull to understand how to manipulate a semi-auto.

pax
 
Um, I should add: if someone you love struggles with the slide, don't feel stupid if you can't seem to teach her how to use it. That, too, is a common problem ... relational dynamics at work. Hand her over to someone else to teach and stand back in amazement at how much easier it becomes! :D

pax
 
Good technique will make it easier, but it's not as easy as it looks in the movies. :) It does take some upper body strength with the more stiffly sprung semi-autos.

One thing that helps is to have a semi-auto with a visible hammer. Cock hammer back first; slide will be far easier to rack.
 
I'm a female, but I can't "punch" the gun forward because I am missing certain muscles (no, they aren't weak, the muscles litterally aren't there). However, I don't have a problem pulling the slide back with either hand. Perhaps it is that I don't hold it out in front, but keep it close in. If I am sitting, I actually rest and semi-brace my arm against a leg.

After much practice with my gun (a Sig), I don't have any problems with the slide of any gun.
 
gun handling by women

PAX you have a great website. I'm going to recommend it to my girl friend. I once bought her a Berretta Tomcat, cute little gun with the tip up barrel. She couldn't pull the trigger in double action but all else went well and she liked it. Unfortunately the Tomcat did not survive. She doesn't like the loud report or recoil of a 9mm or .45 but does very well now with a Bersa Thunder .380.

Teaching someone to handle guns is a lot like teaching your kids/wife to drive an automobile with standard transmission. It's usually best left to someone who knows how to teach and who doesn't have a family connection or emotional connection to the clutch. Knowing how to do something does not mean you know how to teach. I watched a dad shooting with his daughter this weekend. I wanted to dope slap him. He didn't teach her anything although she was motivated to learn. I tried not to intrude but it wasn't easy.
 
If she can't or won't take the time to find a semi with an easier slide, then go to a revolver. A woman who is interested in shooting and self defense needs to get out and check the various firearms available. Needs to be proactive and self directed in her quest for skill and profiency. We're adult learners and need to do it. There are many semi autos that have easier slides, and don't require gymnastics or special techniques to pull back. I have a P99 .40SW, a Colt Defender, a Springer Loaded, a Colt LW Commander, all easy for me to pull back, all reliable and accurate. I also owned a Beretta 96, that was a police firearm, that was smooth as silk. That said, I also use a SW642 revolver in the summertime. This gets rehashed many times. I am not a proponant of doing all sorts of manipulating of a firearm to rack the slide. There's a simpler solution.
When a guy goes out to buy a gun, most likely he finds one that serves his needs, fits his hand and works the way he wants it to. He will get a trigger or action job, change the grips, change the slide or barrel, but it will eventually do what he wants it to do. Why should women have to adjust to the gun? There are enough models, calibers, grips, and gunsmiths to fit their needs.
 
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Most of us don't think about how the world appears through the eyes of others. I learned quite a lot when I lived with a former fiance who was under 5' and 95 pounds. She also had some weakness from brain damage. Her world was far different from mine. What I could litterally pick up with my index finger, she struggled to lift with both arms. She couldn't open a soda can without a lever to pry the tab up. Her hands were too small to use most tools and products made for adults.

For this reason, the best advice for buying a gun for a woman is to take her to the store and pay for whatever she is comfortable with. I can comfortably shoot a large frame .44 mag with one hand but she couldn't pick it up much less aim it with 2 hands. I can't pick a gun for a woman.

My wife (different woman thankfully) had trouble with many pistols. I took her to the gun counter at Cabelas and she tried every 9mm they had under glass. She couldn't manipulate the slide correctly on about 1/2 of them. It was very important to ensure she could cleanly and easily pull the slide without flashing the muzzels around. In the end, she was comfortable with an XDm-9. I think that a larger (heavier) slide and smaller cartridge means a lighter operating spring which translates to an easier slide to manipulate.

Her carry gun is a Lady Smith revolver.
 
As Pax noted...

... gender isn't limiting, but arthritis and injuries can be.

We're running into this issue with my lady's mother. Arthritis plus carpal tunnel = there is no slide she can comfortably cycle. The tip-up barrel Taurus .25 is easy to tip up, but requires a fair amount of force to lock back down.

Soooooooo, we are steering her parents toward something on the lines of a S&W Model 10 or 15, or a Ruger SP101 3"; something generally K-frame ish.

Note: my lady is from farm stock; her parents have been physically active all their lives, but now both suffer from physical ailments related to hard labor and/or repetitive motion. Mental toughness helps, when dealing with physical limitations, and they prove this on a daily basis - but it can't overcome everything.
 
I've taught a number of women in my family to shoot, almost all had initial trouble racking the slide, but after being shown the proper overhand technique and getting confident in the function of the gun, the troubles largely stopped.

I think most problems women experience with racking slides is because they try the thumb and forefinger technique seen in the movies. Grasp the slide with your whole hand over top of the pistol and it becomes easier. And it's the proper way to do it anyhow.
 
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