Wolves are causing big problems in Idaho.

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Big Bill

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All of these comments were made by Idaho hunters.
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Two of my sons were hunting above the town of Sunbean in Idaho
The older was chased by a Wolf yesterday while returning to his
car the other went to help out as the wolf turn and ran into the woods.
Both boys and one wife returned home later that day.

The experience is a heads up for those who are planing on being in the Mountains near Stanley or near the Sunbean dredge.
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A friend of mine had a similar experience while bow hunting above Lowman in the Bear Valley area. Was cow calling in early am trying to coax a bull into answering, but called in a half dozen wolves instead. Nomad, had it been me I'd have killed some dogs.
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my friend at work was packing out his Elk from that area last month.
Covered in blood an 100lbs of meat on his back he turned and had 4 wolves following him.

His just stood still facing them and they slowly wandered off. Crazy eh?
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Its a good thing to remember to keep your dogs and small kids close if your camping this year. I have talked to folks in Cascade and Idaho City that have spotted them, and by the time they have hold of Fido it will be too late. My kids are young and always have a loud whistle around their neck if we are out in the woods. I don't know if that would spook a wolf, but it would get me running and I carry a slightly louder noisemaker.
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These are some of the comments some of my friends have made concerning wolves here in Idaho. So, please don't tell me wolves aren't dangerous.

Here is a comment about specific places where elk and deer used to be abundant:

The area around Yellow Pine was a bust. We found some older deer and elk sign but much more, and more recent, wolf tracks. None of the many hunters we talked to had seen any elk or deer, but those tent camping reported howling wolves each night.
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http://www.boiseshooters.com/index.php

So, if you're planning a trip into Idaho's back country, you better be packin heat!

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this shoudl bea warning to anyone camping anywhere. this weird weather we've been havign nationwide is gonna cause soem weird things with animals
 
Anecdotal evidence is not quite on the same level as scientific evidence. If I'm supposed to live in fear I need something concrete to go on.
 
Anecdotal evidence is not quite on the same level as scientific evidence. If I'm supposed to live in fear I need something concrete to go on.
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I'll take you out to Yellow Pine and let you tent camp for a week and gather all the scientific evidence you want. How would that be? :rolleyes:
 
Yes and they will go on thinking it is great until they(wolves) start bringing down more live stock and then start on the human species :rolleyes: . I am from the Pacific North West, I can tell you that they are nothing to mess around with. The packs of wild dogs/yotes was bad enough. Ever been chased by wild dogs? It's not very much fun,(still got the scars) thank god my dad had a rifle that day.
My dad has said that the tally around where he hunts was real low this year and several hunters stated hearing wolves.
 
In HS, our biology teacher (professor, since he also taught college), challenged the class to provide one DOCUMENTED case of a wolf attack on a human in N. America. We were unable to provide a single case.

Of course, 1962 was a ways back.:D

Now days one has tremendous resources at his fingertips in the computer age for doing research.

I did see a documentory (NG channel?) where a man was killed in Alaska, and it was kind of a 50/50 toss up as to whether he was killed by a bear or wolves. Both types of animals were known to feed at their local garbage dump at the research site, and both footprints were found near his body.


There was, however, another documented instance of a hunter being attacked in another area. That fellow survived.

If you're familiar with the National Geographic channel, you know there's no length to which they won't go to scientifically analyze the reason why animals attack humans--and always blame the humans. Get's comical at times. I guess there's no such thing as amimals being the predators and humans sometimes the prey.


I'm personally skeptical of stories about wolf attacks, or of wolves bothering humans in the lower 48. That doesn't mean I wouldn't have concerns if there were wolves around--I'd be as nervous as anyone else. I'd be more concerned if there were grizzlies or even black bear in the neighborhood.

Wolves following a hunter while packing out meat after a kill? Why? The pack would have the gut pile to themselves as well as the rest of the elk or deer not immediately packed out. A rifle shot during hunting season is a dinner bell for wolves or Grizzly in some places. The wolves aren't going to take your elk from you until you're gone. Not necessarily so with the Grizzly.
 
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That would be great Big Bill. Are you paying for the trip?
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NOT for you Water-Man! But, this fall I could probably drive up to Washington; and pick up Buzz; and drop him off in the Big creek wildernes area. But, I just don't know how soon I could get back to pick him up and take him home.

BTW Buzz! Are you in the Navy by chance? I've got a son down in Longview, maybe you could just catch a ride with him next time he comes home. :)
 
Except for a couple people in the Air Force my family was all Army, untill my brother and I opted out. I was born on an Army base in Japan and that's as close to military service as I got.

I wish I could come camping out in the Idaho, heck anywhere. But I'll have to pass. Besides I'm not a scientist either, so if I end up as wolf poop it won't mean much;)

Bill I remember when wolves were reintroduced back in the eighties. People started crying wolf then and they pretty much didn't stop no matter what. Most of the stories about depredation by wolves turned out to be just that, stories.
So here we are 30 years later and people are still crying wolf. I'm not saying you don't have a valid argument, it's just that there have been so many false alarms that I need more than stories. Give me a link that ends in .gov or .edu, that's all I ask.
 
Wolves have been hammering the deer herds in the Methow Valley for the past 3-4 years, and these idiots think it's "great news" that the wolves are back.
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Is there a deer shortage now?
I'll take you out to Yellow Pine and let you tent camp for a week and gather all the scientific evidence you want. How would that be?
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Sounds like fun. When was the last time you heard a factual account of wolves harming humans...and I don't mean more anecdotes from people with a set agenda like the ones in the OP.
 
http://www.trib.com/articles/2008/09/18/news/wyoming/d613a2b4f92b4c65872574c70083d024.txt

The Northern Rockies gray wolf population has apparently shrunk for the first time in over a decade, and officials say they're not sure why.

At the start of 2008, there were an estimated 1,513 gray wolves living in Wyoming, Montana and Idaho, and biologists with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service had predicted by mid-year there would be more than 2,000.

The population has been growing for years by a fairly reliable 24 percent annually.

But the mid-year census numbers are in, and instead of growth, Fish and Wildlife officials say wolf numbers have declined to an estimated 1,455, or about 350 fewer than had been anticipated.

Ed Bangs, the federal gray wolf recovery coordinator, cautioned the mid-year counts represent just a "best guess" number, and are not as reliable as the end-of-year figures.
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Another site said the 24% growth number was old and population growth had been slowing over the last few years.

But I'd like to point out that 1,513 figure, that's only a couple hundred more animals than our yearly harvest of black bears in Washington. Over three big states that is. So even though the population is spread pretty wide it is also spread pretty thin, relative to other top predators.
For example Oregon has an estimated 5100 cougars.
http://www.dfw.state.or.us/wildlife/cougar/ Just as an aside I find the thought of being near a full sized mountain lion in the woods to be much scarier than a wolf.
 
PBP,
I don't see you in this section posting often so I will fill yer desire to see accounts of real encounters and/or attacks...
http://www2.canada.com/theprovince/news/story.html?id=44d94f6e-11cd-46b6-84c4-3f48d8df838b
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/saskatchewan/story/2007/11/01/wolf-verdict.html
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2008/02/21/bc-wolf-attack.html
A rather long but detailed "official" summary of attacks...
http://www.wc.adfg.state.ak.us/pubs/techpubs/research_pdfs/techb13_full.pdf
This should tide you over for a while...
But here are some livestock attacks...
http://www.boiseweekly.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid:213125
http://www.agweekly.com/articles/2007/05/31/commodities/livestock/lvstk76.txt
http://www.propertyrightsresearch.org/2005/articles02/wolf_attacks.htm
Brent
 
A couple more anecdotal stories with no witnesses and another story where the experts do not believe it was awolf at all but "witnesses" say no bears where seen in the area. Another case of anecdotes and circumstance. Not much in the way of evidence there. In fact the one story even points out that "if" the story is true it is the first such account of humans being killed by healthy wolves. Nothingthat would survive any level of unbiased scrutiny at all.
 
So my tales backed by photos of hogs causing injury to humans and dogs are likely more unbelievable to you I reckon since most folks KNOW piggies are timid little critters unable to cause injury and/or death to humans or even our hunting dogs especially those bulldogs we use?
I am way too far away from their habitat to have first hand knowledge of the wolf attacks but know of many ranchers who battle the financial losses of calving season. Heck, coyotes, while not normally attacking humans, are getting thick around here and I have personally seen many goat and calf kills and reduction of turkey populations in the last few years.
Brent
 
You are still significantly more likely to be shot by a fellow hunter than you are to be attacked by a bear, mountain lion, and wolf, combined.

There is a reason the wilderness is called the wilderness. It isn't Disneyland.

If you are out in the woods and calling in prey species to kill, expect to call in carnivores. D'uh!

I did like the stories in the OP. The first three stories by "hunters" were all secondhand accounts - not even good anecdotes. The fourth was just a tale of what a guy does to keep his family safe. The fifth story is just a story about nature. Apparently the guy isn't happy about having some competition.

Don't worry too much about the wolves killing off the deer herds. They are just getting used to the predatory pressures again and are learning to respond accordingly, as in Wisconsin....
http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/sports/442552

What I want to know is why folks aren't worried about these oh-so aggressive deer? They attack hunters, hikers, campers, and townfolk, etc. every year. This is one of the more under-reported types of events. Think of the shame about being a big old tough hunter and being chased down by Bambi's folks? Well, it isn't just the hunters who are at risk...:rolleyes:
http://www.peninsuladailynews.com/article/20090217/news/302179996

http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we...page=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&s_trackval=GooglePM

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9405E6DD133FE533A25751C1A9649D94679FD7CF (nice historic accounting)

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F50B15FC3F5A11728DDDAF0894D9415B898FF1D3

And some deer don't like to be shot by hunters...
http://www.startribune.com/error/?path=/nation&id=35323749

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_5740499,00.html

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9502EFD9143FE533A25754C1A9679D94659FD7CF

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...s-severe-beating-to-deer-hunter-14089820.html

http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we...page=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&s_trackval=GooglePM

http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we...page=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&s_trackval=GooglePM

I am not sure there isn't more danger from deer than there is from wolves. ;)
 
When wild carnivores lose fear of people they become dangerous. When they are hungry, you're just a meal to them. When supposedly domesticated dogs like Rottweilers and Pit Bulls turn on people and sometimes kill them, there is no reason to believe a Wolf won't. Wild Carnivores are like guns. Always treat them like they are loaded.
 
When a state's wolf population grows from 30 to 800 as was reported and then cited in a thread here, what didn't happen in 1962 is not really germane. Sure, odds are important, but the results of a high-odds event are much more important. Folks win lotteries, right? They say the Florida lottery's odds run some 14 million to one, against. Some lotteries, I don't want to win...

It ain't the odds so much as it is the results.

No one anecdote is evidence. But when you add up anecdotes over a period of years and they're consistent, the new odds are that you'd better pay attention.

Question: Why would a group of several wolves NOT attack a human, when a group of feral dogs will? (Some will try the, "But, Art, they learned that by being raised around humans." That merely shows ignorance about feral dogs. They're born and raised in the boonies as well as around people.)

I live in the middle of a fair amount of cougar poop. They're around, and there have been four attacks up in Big Bend National Park. They've followed hikers on private land away from the park. But I don't live in fear of cougars. I am, however, judicious about where I walk and what I carry with me.

I figure that if I turn on any predatory animal and do the yell-and-mock-charge thing, he better leave. If he stands his ground and shows any hostility, the odds are that he ain't leaving. Ever. I'll amble on about my business. My well-being is a lot more important to me than that of any critter on four legs--and a fair number of two-legs, for that matter. :)

I dunno. Just like with people, I judge animals on their behavior. I've been around animals for danged near seventy years. Tame, feral and wild. I trust my judgement a heckuva lot more than I do that of some Willie-off-the-pickle-boat.

Bottom line: Some knowledge is best gained vicariously, not first-hand.
 
Bottom line: Some knowledge is best gained vicariously, not first-hand.
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