Wolff spring kit for K-frame revolver?

Adding more and more aftermarket parts...

There will be followup disagreements with me here...

If you sense a rough or too hard trigger, it needs a trigger job, not new springs.

If it's a self defense gun, it needs to be in stock condition, as designed by the factory. Not modified by the end user to make it "easier to fire the expanding wound channel bullets into my deceased client".

It's not a matter of reliability of the striking mechanism. That would be an appropriate concern in a purely target gun. But in a gun that you're going to fire in self defense and commit a homicide, then try and defend as justifiable, that self modified trigger is a liability.

Again, others will disagree. Momentarily I'm sure.


Sgt Lumpy
 
If it's a self defense gun, it needs to be in stock condition, as designed by the factory. Not modified by the end user to make it "easier to fire the expanding wound channel bullets into my deceased client".
That does not make sense. The choice of ammunition,has nothing to do with work done on the action. It would make all ammunition easier to hit a target. Of course with such an ambiguous statement, you may have meant something else.

It's [modifying the firing mechanism] not a matter of reliability of the striking mechanism.
As I have posted previously, most if not all of the S&W double-actions I have purchased had mechanical problems...when brand new. Some rendering the gun inoperable (.41 Mag., burr on the recoil shield, tied up the gun), if not problematic to fire (hammer striking the frame), etc. So, in many cases, the gun either has to go back or to a gunsmith just to get it to work.


But in a gun that you're going to fire in self defense and commit a homicide, then try and defend as justifiable, that self modified trigger is a liability.
Your having no connection with the legal establishment, not a lawyer, prosecutor, etc., it must be just your opinion, having read it somewhere. Of course, if you can post some citations where a prosecutor has actually had a gun taken apart to determine if it had a trigger job so that he could use it in a prosecution in a self-defense case, I will be better convinced. You made the claim, now prove it. :D

Just as you have posted (in another thread), that if there is a problem with a gun it should not be discussed on a forum, but taken to a gunsmith. Similarly, I suggest that if someone has any legal concerns, they do not discuss it here, as you are doing, but take the issue up with a lawyer or someone else with legal credentials.

Again, others will disagree. Momentarily I'm sure.
You have to admit that make it so easy? :)
 
Based on responses, I think I'll try the type one kit. I've installed kits in my 10/22s before and also put in shims from triggershims.com. They also sell shims for k-frame revolvers ($8 for a set). Any input as to whether shims are worth adding?
They are worth adding if the trigger and hammer do not travel straight because of looseness. If there are frame scrapes on the hammer, and rub marks on the trigger, then they may be used to help align them. Do not add them "just because".
 
If you sense a rough or too hard trigger, it needs a trigger job, not new springs.

If it's a self defense gun, it needs to be in stock condition, as designed by the factory. Not modified by the end user to make it "easier to fire the expanding wound channel bullets into my deceased client".
Well, which is it? A trigger job or leave it in stock condition? Please make up your mind and get back to us. :)
 
There's that disagreement I was sure to momentarily pop up.

You're right, dahermit. Don't take my word for it. Ask an atty about the liability implications of an amateur, end user, untrained, uncertified in repairing or working on guns, ask about if that person should replace the springs in his self defense gun.

Hey, the sky is blue.


Sgt Lumpy
 
I have an L-frame and put about a thousand rounds through it before the spring kit. There was no mis-fitted parts that caused the hammer to drag on anything, and the action smoothed nicely with the advancing rounds.

I installed the lightest springs (main and trigger) in the L/N spring kit and it worked unbelievably well. I tried about five different .38 and .357 Mag ammo and put a couple hundred rounds through it and did not experience a FTF until this past weekend, when one round of Blazer lead slug .38 didn't light off.

Held a safe muzzle direction for a little while, then opened the cylinder and checked the primer, which had a strike on it. I indexed the round to fire again and it went off the second time.

I would say any decent ammo would not cause an issue. As my S&W 325 gets more rounds through it I will at least do the light trigger return spring and consider the light mainspring as well.

Having the actions well worked-in is important. Brand new, not broken in actions may indeed have consistent FTF issues with the light main springs.

Blue1
 
I have used the spring kits in my fun guns. They work great, you may have to use Federal primers to get it to fire every time. I don't use the lightest rebound spring, it can lead to short shucking. My SD guns have standard springs in them, they need to shoot every time no matter what.
 
Personally, I would not do it at all.
And we should care why? Because this is a forum (and it was not a poll), would it not make more sense to give a rationale as to why you would not do it? Just think, we might have had the opportunity to evaluate points that we had not already considered...we might have learned something, changed minds, etc. Care to expand?
 
I think the lessons here are:

1) Don't buy new S&W. All mine are from the 70s and run awesome.

2) A revolver isn't a 1911, the trigger is going to be different. To the uninitiated, it may feel heavy, long and "bad."

3) Practice more. I have a 80 year old beat to hell H&R .22 with a very heavy trigger. Shoot 2000-3000 rounds through it DA and you won't even notice the trigger anymore. You'll also shoot every single other firearm on the planet better. I strongly believe that nothing makes you more accurate with a handgun than shooting lots of DA on a not-so-good revolver. Btw, I can hit 1 inch groups in DA all day long with that H&R at 7 yards.
 
several people have mentioned the trigger smoothing itself out with use. Does this come from actually shooting or could dry-firing smooth it out as well?
 
"Ask an atty about the liability implications of an amateur, end user, untrained, uncertified in repairing or working on guns, ask about if that person should replace the springs in his self defense gun."

I did ask that once.

The attorney's answer boiled down to a prosecutor can make an issue out of just about anything he/she wants, from type of gun to type of ammunition to whatever.

His opinion was that the chances of a prosecutor focusing on the spring set in a gun as proof of something or the other is pretty much nil. Springs aren't easily identifiable as they're not marked with a manufacturer's name.

He carried a tricked out Colt .380 that had virtually no Colt parts in it.


Something of a positive defense against that kind of accusation would be "the lighter trigger pull made it possible to fire the gun with much greater accuracy, thus reducing the chances of missing and inadvertently hitting an innocent bystander."

In other words, there's a way around everything.
 
His opinion was that the chances of a prosecutor focusing on the spring set in a gun as proof of something or the other is pretty much nil. Springs aren't easily identifiable as they're not marked with a manufacturer's name.
Furthermore, from reading in the media what non-gun people have erroneously published in regard to the simplest features on guns, it is obvious that non-gun people would not likely even know what a "trigger job" is, what the implications are nor would know how to determine if it had been done. Most likely, they would not even be aware of such practices. They will logically stick with what they know for prosecution purposes.
 
Can you tell us, Mr. Dahermit, what your murderous intentions were when you installed those hyperdeadly custom carbon fiber grip panels? How many busloads of nuns did you intend to slay?

If ANYONE can provide verifiable proof of a prosecutor in this country hanging his case SOLELY on a replacement springset in a gun used in a defensive shooting, I'll buy you a beer.

If anyone can point to a case where that springset secured a conviction, I'll buy you a nice bottle of champagne.
 
To even see the springs in most revolvers requires, at the least, removal of the grips and, depending on the particular gun and spring, detail stripping. Now, perhaps some of the LEO's who post here could fill us in, but it seems to me that detail stripping evidence would be uncommon unless they had a specific reason to do so. As such, I doubt anyone would ever know that springs had been swapped unless the person who did the swapping told them so.
 
Can you tell us, Mr. Dahermit, what your murderous intentions were when you installed those hyperdeadly custom carbon fiber grip panels? How many busloads of nuns did you intend to slay?
ALL OF THEM!!!!
 
Oh, and regarding the efficacy of the advice of a lawyer...

It's because of lawyers that my last toaster had a warning sticker on the side that said "Do not use this device in the bathtub or shower."


OH MAN, I'M ALL SOAPED UP, BUT I AM SOOOOOO JONSING FOR AN ENGLISH MUFFIN RIGHT NOW!

:rolleyes:
 
Does this come from actually shooting or could dry-firing smooth it out as well?
Dry-firing will do it as well, but it's not as much fun.

The attorney's answer boiled down to a prosecutor can make an issue out of just about anything he/she wants, from type of gun to type of ammunition to whatever.
The only time this might come up is in a case in which the defendant claims they didn't mean to shoot or the gun just went off.

OH MAN, I'M ALL SOAPED UP, BUT I AM SOOOOOO JONSING FOR AN ENGLISH MUFFIN RIGHT NOW!
That visual is now stuck in my brain. :eek:

Of course, that sticker is there because someone did use a toaster in the bathtub, and they got hurt. Then they sued somebody and won. Warning labels don't come from the goodness of the manufacturer's heart; they come from a desire to avoid litigation.

Hence, Colt's pistol manuals warn people not to carry the gun with a round chambered, and Sig manuals gripe about reloads.
 
If ANYONE can provide verifiable proof of a prosecutor in this country hanging his case SOLELY on a replacement springset in a gun used in a defensive shooting, I'll buy you a beer.

Solely? No, of course not. You're wandering into the ridiculous extreme.

Can the average Joe tell the difference between a stock S&W mainspring and a Wolf replacement? Absolutely. Simply take the grips off and you can see or not see the telltale rib.

Does the crime lab disassemble, test fire, analyze the workings of any gun used in a homicide? They do in the two states I'm experienced in.

Does the prosecutor bring the modified gun information, including grips and sights into the legal arguments? They do in the few dozen court cases I've been involved in. Was that the sole basis for conviction? No. Did it figure in to the conviction? Yes. At the very least, did it cost the defendant several thousand dollars more in defense atty fees? Yes.

Consider police departments. They all carry guns. They are the ones who are most likely to get involved in a shooting. Are there a lot of police departments who, on advice of their legal eagles, do not allow modified guns? Do not even allow privately owned guns? Who have their own armorer to make sure all the various parts are working the way they are designed? Yes, there are.

Is it a good idea for a hobbiest, non-gunsmith gun owner to replace his stock gun parts with something aftermarket because some guys on a web forum said it would make it easier to shoot? There's an answer each individual will have to come up with for themselves. I have. Sounds like some of you have. I think some of you are basing your decisions on wishful thinking and "Well how could that be a problem?".

Have we got politicians, including prosecutors, who would focus on the COLOR or your gun or that it had a PISTOL GRIP or a magazine that held more than X number of rounds? The answer to that is not open to individual opinion. It's just plain "YES".

Carry on, wishful thinkers. I prefer a more reaslitic and safe route.


Sgt Lumpy
 
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