With a C&R license, can you resell guns that you buy?

[jsmaye]

Don't take it personally - unless that's what you were doing, my post wasn't directed at you.

 

[samsmix]

I'm not a C&R licensee...yet. But I have been following this thread from the start and there is one thing I am REALLY dying to hear:

MarkDozier, you stepped on your own willie a while back and got called out on it. When were you going to tell all of these nice folks how it's done? I for one can't wait.


I should say right now that I have NO hard feelings whatsoever towards Mr. Dozier. It's just that I've watched this situation develop, and I want to see the rest of the story.

Nagants at ten paces anyone?

 

[madcratebuilder]

Quote:
But I don't think a half dozen, or even a dozen weapons a year wouldn't qualify as "making a livelihood" from it...


With absolute certainty the ATF will disagree with the above statement.
If you are selling a dozen guns a year and doing the buying on your FFL-03 they WILL consider you a dealer. Say hi to Bubba for me at the gray bar hotel

That is not correct Don. I sell two or three C&R's every month. I buy three or four C&R's every month. Most sales show a very small profit, a few show a lot.

I had over 150 C&R qualified fire arms when I obtained my C&R FFL so I may be in a unique situation. I've taken my bound book to the local ATF office and discussed buying and selling. Bottom line, as long as I'm not buying with the intent to sell, it's A-OK.

ETA: If you want to buy and sell a few guns each month then do not get a FFL. A bud of mine is a wheeler dealer in C&R's and ammo. ATF has talked to him more than once. He is fine as long as his sales meet legal requirements. He buys/sells 60-80 guns a year. He basically tells ATF this is his hobby, he does not make any money from it(key) and to screw off. So far, it's worked.

 

[tobnpr]

Yeah, well, there are those here that think differently, and we're not gonna change their minds...and nor are they going to change mine.

Those words "principal objective of livelihood and profit" are black and white...

If there's little or no profit, it's not a "business"...

But what the hell do I know of the definition of a "business" , with a B.S. in Commerce...

 

[akguy1985]

You can sell to upgrade or improve your collection but cant sell as a business. Thats the "gray" area. When i renewed by C&R in 2009 one of the questions was how many did you sell or disposess in the 3 year period? Well I answered truthfully and the ATF never said a word or batted an eye.

 

[Once Fired]

An interesting twist on this topic

Hi all

If I already possess an FFL Type 3 C&R license, is there any benefit in terms of a future application for other FFL license types?

Is there a more streamlined process, since you're already "in the system"?

I would like to buy for myself. I would also like to pave the road for an easier approval process later as I *hope* to transition from hobby to business at some point in the future. What I have right now is a desire to collect, and that is all. However, if that streamlining would be a perk I could gain by having the C&R in force when I apply for a different type, it would be worth it later.

I am also very curious about any of the the FFL licenses when operating from home. I am trying to understand what the zoning requirements are for my area, as that seems to be the least clear component of the process.

ZAG

 

[sonick808]

C&R is for collecting, not for test driving rifles. It's assumed you are involved enough in the research "curio and relic" portion of collecting that you won't have a need to release that frequently from your collection.

The intent of the law is far more important to consider than the verbosity. Intent.

No way in hell I would sell 12 rifles from a C&R collection in a year, or 5 years for that matter. In fact, I choose to avoid it altogether. If I imagine myself in an agent's shoes, I would find 12 sales per year highly suspicious, and I'm far from uptight. YMMV, just my opinion here.

 

[Winchester_73]

No way in hell I would sell 12 rifles from a C&R collection in a year, or 5 years for that matter. In fact, I choose to avoid it altogether. If I imagine myself in an agent's shoes, I would find 12 sales per year highly suspicious, and I'm far from uptight.

Oh would you? What if the C&R holder purchased 60 and sold 12? There is no "set number" for any of this.

This topic is far from cut and dry. There are too many variables here to deal with absolutes. The only thing that is for sure is that the ATF will do what they want regarding this stuff. Beyond our own interpetation of the rules / laws, it is theirs that is most important.

 

[sonick808]

Like I said, and I'll say it again, that's MY opinion. The most important thing remains: Intent.

 

[rburch]

Slightly different topic, anyone have ATF's regs on buying Gifts with your C&R?

My lil Brother just Graduated High School, and I was thinking of buying him a Mosin.

Would I run into issues buying something I didn't intend to keep with my C&R?

 

[dbldblu]

If you let your C&R expire, you can sell all your collection. You can sell to private parties in your state (most states) and your can sell out of state by using an FFL. This suggests that while you hold a C&R, you should be able to sell any or all by going through a regular FFL, doesn't it? I don't know, I am asking as a question. This might be helpful if one wanted to get out of collecting "A" by selling them all and collect "B" instead. This might be a safer technique.

It seems that there should be a distinction between selling to another collector or private party versus selling to (or through) a regular FFL.

Has anyone asked ATF about this.