Winchester Silvertip HP

N-Warrior,

In a 4" .38 Special, I'd prefer to use the 158gr +P SJSP or the 125gr +P SJSP, if you can't get JHP ammo besides 110gr Hydrashok.

The Hydrashok is a good round, but handicapping it with a lightweight bullet that may not penetrate sufficiently would lead me to use a heavier bullet. Don't plan on the softpoint ammo expanding very much, however.

Jaymag - Can't fault your choice of a 158gr +P if it's a JHP or semi-wadcutter hollow point (LSWC-HP). Me, I prefer either a 125gr +P or Speer's 135gr +P SB (short barrel) load only because the 158gr hurts my hand fired from the airweight. :o
 
This is a question for which I've been wondering about the answer, too. Unfortunately, I just haven't had the time to get back in touch with the Win LE rep and request some newer, updated info since the STHP line was revised in recent years.

The original 110gr STHP .38 SPL bullet had an aluminum jacket and a different notching design of the nose cavity. The jacket finish was a dull, unpolished aluminum finish.

The current version seems to have a nickled case, so I'm wondering if it's no longer an aluminum case. I seem to recall a couple or three years ago that the Win rep at a hosted Gel Demo event mentioned something about how the aluminum jackets had been dropped on some of the loads, replaced with regular copper jacketed bullets with nickeled finishes (like some of the original loads, ala the 9 115gr & 147gr STHP and the .357 145gr STHP, for instance).

FWIW, the only factory data I have on hand is from July 2002, and was taken from some factory testing performed with a S&W M60 2" ...

The averaged results posted read:
X38S9HP 110gr STHP
Bare Gel - 11"/0.54/110gr ret wgt
4 Layers Denim - 13.9"/0.51/110gr
Heavy Cloth - 10.5"/0.53/110gr
Wallboard - 11.35"/0.36?110gr
Plywood - 9.2"/0.44/110gr
Steel - 0"/0.55/92.4gr
Autoglass - 4.75"/0.45/Can't read the smudge

Here are the results for a couple of other loads:
X38SPD 158gr LHP +P
Bare Gel - 14.8"/0.48
4 Layers Denim - 15.5"/0.36
Heavy Cloth - 19.6"/0.36
Wallboard - 13.4"/0.37
Plywood - 12.7"/0.42
Steel - 0"/0.68
Autoglass - 7.1"/0.63

X38S7PH 125gr JHP +P
Bare - 15.3"/0.4
Denim - 15.3"/0.36
Heavy Cloth - 15.4"/0.35

S38SP 130gr JHP +P
Bare - 13.2"/0.54
Denim - 14.8"/0.53
Heavy Cloth - 12.6"/0.53

USA38JHP 125gr JHP
Bare - 8.9"/0.51
Denim - 11.9"/0.52
Heavy Cloth - 9.7"/0.59

I guess I'll have to remember to ask for some updated results, and ask how the current 110gr STHP .38 bullet actually differs from the earlier one, if indeed it does (other than appearance, at any rate).

In the meantime, since my M37 isn't rated for +P I plan to only shoot standard pressure loads through it. If I want to shoot +P loads I use either my older M649 Bodyguard or my 642-1 Centennial. I can afford to avoid stressing the 37. The 110gr STHP loads seem to shoot well in my 37, and I picked up some Federal Low Recoil 110gr Hydra-Shok loads to stash away and test through the 37 sometime.

BTW, when it made me wonder if I was essentially reducing my off-duty weapon to a glorified .380 JHP (or less) because of the lightweight standard pressure STHP loads, I checked out the factory test data from their RA380T 95gr load, listed in the same 2002 data. The pistol used for the test isn't listed, though.

Denim - 7.95"/0.64
Heavy Cloth - 7.85"/0.54

Then, the newer LE catalog lists some different results for the same RA380T 95gr load:

Bare Gel - 7.7"/0.68
Denim - 8"/0.64
Heavy Cloth - 7.8"/0.64

I don't feel quite so bad about carrying the standard pressure .38 110gr STHP in one of my off-duty J-frames anymore ... but Gel test data isn't a guarantee of any kind. It's just observed results in specific circumstances.

Have you read through this forum thread elsewhere? Interesting reading. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=224327

It's still about accuracy and placement, though.

Practice, practice, practice. I've always thought that J-frame's, especially when fired in DA/DAO mode, require some refined and well-practiced revolver skills.
 
In the interests of accuracy, I'm replying to this old post, since it comes up in searches.

It's nice that this site allows differing opinions. However, like most of the internet, some of those opinions are the product of bias, misinformation and ignorance. This legendary thread is an example of posters using it as a means to grind their obvious axes.

Moreover, the OP asked about the .38 Special 110 grain STHP load. All of these axe-grinding replies referenced the different 9mm 115 grain STHP load

For close to 30 years I was an FBI agent, firearms instructor and rangemaster (now retired). I am very familiar with the history of ammunition testing and procurement there.

The SOLE criteria for selection of ammunition in the FBI is performance. The NIJ RII was produced by a separate agency within the US DOJ and was NEITHER sponsored nor adopted by the FBI. The Winchester 9mm 115 STHP was considered at the time to be an excellent load based on numerous criteria, and used by extensively in law enforcement. The type of law enforcement extensive testing which is done today, was pioneered by the FBI as a result of the the performance in that shooting, and a subsequent symposium of ballistic and forensic trauma experts.

Regarding the claimed superiority of the Federal 115 JHP +P+, the FBI reviews ammunition performance from many sources in addition to their own testing, but frankly what happens in a particular shooting, to a particular agency, is neither dispositive nor scientific. This Federal load was considered and rejected because of excessive pressure and wear on the firearms used, and inconsistent accuracy. In fact, in subsequent ballistic testing this load exhibited nearly IDENTICAL under-penetration as the Winchester 115 STHP load. Any argument about some magical superiority is simply not provable.

The remaining drivel about the 1986 Miami shooting is completely lacking in knowledge of the FACTS of that shooting, which have been well-documented by professionals. These kinds of attacks don't even deserve a reply.

The OP asked about the .38 Special Winchester 110 grain STHP load. Several useful replies have posted the actual test results of this load. The FBI never used this load, although it was tested. I have personally shot quite a bit of it out of airweight revolvers. While it is short on penetration through barriers for a law enforcement load, as a personal self-defense load it's useful. In lightweight revolvers the recoil is moderate, and 10-14" of penetration in tissue is certainly adequate to counter close range personal attacks. The expansion of the bullet and accuracy is good, although the POI will be low beyond 10 yards in fixed sight guns.

Be safe.
 
Many years ago, like ca.1980, the Memphis Police Department SWAT team was armed with S&W Model 25 revolvers in .45 Colt, and after some testing (I don't know what was involved) selected the Winchester 225 gr. Silvertip Hollow Point as their standard ammunition.

Part of their choice was that the bullet did not over penetrate the human body, and it tended to "skid" along pavement rather than ricocheting.


Bob Wright
 
Contrary to popular belief, bullets that strike hard surfaces like walls and pavement tend to travel along them as opposed to ricocheting off.
 
from my 4" mod 681 the 145gr. STHP were the best balance between power, recoil, accuracy and all that jazz. I haven't seen any in a long time on the shelf and on-line they want $1/per round or more. I've settle for something else.
 
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