Winchester Pumpguns?

G

General Tso

New member
Just curious what the general concensus was on Winchester pump shotguns, particularly the Model 1300 Defenders. I've had two of them over the years and they were just fine. Reliability was always excellent, they operated smoothly and were "accurate" enough for everything I ever used them for (slugs out to 50 yards, casual skeet shooting, blasting milk jugs out to 30 or 35 yards). These were both 18" cylinder bore riot guns.

I've moved them along in trades over the years but not because of any problems. Just part of the usual rotation of the collection.

It just seems a bit odd that I almost never here anything about them in articles or on the web. They seemed every bit as good as the Mossberg 500 I had and still stack up well against my 870. Is there something I'm missing as to their lack of popularity or is this just the old VHS vs Beta arguement? Nothing wrong with them but they just aren't as popular.

The only complaint I had was that there wasn't much aftermarket support for them. Very little in the way of stocks and I had a heck of a time tracking dwn a sidesaddle for a while.

I just looked at the new 1300 Camp Defender and I must admit I'm very tempted. 22" barrel, rifle sights, Winchoke system, 8 shot tube, black synthetic stocks and matte finish. Cost was around $289 new. I have an 870 HD but have been kicking around getting another full mag tube gun again for a while and this one was intrigueing. As I said, in the past I've good experience with Winchester's, is there any good reason not to consider this one?
 
GT - I have a 1300 and a 120 Youth Gun. Had another 120 but gave it away. The Winchesters seem to be the stealth model. Lots of folks have'em, few talk about'em. Might have something to do with the lack of aftermarket add-ons.

Giz
 
The only 1300 I have experience with was owned by a student of mine who showed up with this pistol gripped, nickel finish Hollywood special for his first shotgun class. Other than that egregious PG, the weapon functioned OK. BTW, he had a standard stock by Lesson II.

GT, since you have an 870, why not just get another 870? In a crisis, you may not have time to recall what's in your hands,and the controls are different.

Much as I love the Govt Model Colt, when I was on duty I carried a K-frame,and switched to the same for off duty carry, just to keep it all the same and avoid unnecessary complications.

As for the 1300, the lack of attention paid to it is quite simple.Just like the Mossberg, it's a good shotgun greatly overshadowed by a superb one, the 870...
 
That's probably sound advice Dave but it'd be a fair investment to set up an 870 like this and I do really like the setup. 22" barrel, 8 shot mag, Winchoke and rifle sights all for under $300.

Even if I buy a 22" Rem slug gun, I'm looking at what? $250 or so maybe? Then add an extended mag tube ($30 or so?), have a choke installed (another $100 or so) and possibly a synthetic stock ($50 to $80). I'm easily looking at another couple hundred bucks. Admittedly that's a rough guess though. Cash is unfortunately always an issue though, and then there's the hassle of putting teh whole package together. The Winchester comes complete for a pretty reasonable price.

Plus, is the Winchester control setup that different from the Remington? I can't remember now. Both have crossbolt safeties and the slide release near the trigger. Maybe differently positioned though? I'll have to take a closer look, it's been a few years since I had a Winchester.
 
The Winchester 1300 doesn't seem to have the following of the Remington 870 or the Mossberg 500/590. I'm not sure why. With the exception below, my 1300s have been smooth-operating, well-made, reliable guns. Really, they're smoother than either the 870 or the 500, and IMHO better-finished than the latter.

My one problem: the plastic trigger housing shattered on a factory pistol grip 1300. I think the cause was inadequate clearance between the rear of the housing and the front of the grip. My shoulder-stocked 1300s have been fine.

BTW, I recall that "Gun Tests" magazine reported that the rear sight flew off a rifle-sighted 1300 during test firing. Hopefully this is not typical. None of my 1300s has rifle sights, so I haven't encountered the problem.
 
Hi, my name is ZeusOne and my shotgun is, well...its...its not an 870.

There - I said it!

My 1300 points well, feels right and always seems to know what I was really aiming at. (Could this be what Bill-Bob refers to as a "smart gun"?) The action is glass smooth and functions reliably. Takedown for cleaning is a snap.

My piece is stock, but big name tube extensions, side saddles and other goodies are available. So those who really need a very serious piece should not be limited by market availability. But IMHO, and for my own purposes, the money is better spent on ammo & practice, practice, practice.
 
I have a 20ga 1300 Defender and you can search on the troubles I had with it. It came with a rough chamber which caused emties to hang up after being fired. Took slightly over a month to get it fixed under warranty. It works well now but I can't compare it to others as my experience with 870 and 590 has been limited. I'd have to say that I like 870 less (fewer rounds inthe tube, worse slide release position which cause at least one AD I witnessed) but 870s are cheap and can be modified much. I just wanted a basic defensive pump and the 1300 with trueglo sight fit the bill. Hope to see how it works for skeet shortly (good training methinks)
 
Hmm, it seems I've discovered a secret sect of Winchester owners :)



[This message has been edited by General Tso (edited March 20, 2000).]
 
GT, there's a urban myth around here that stock 870s are egregious, it seems. Whatinheck is wrong with getting the 870 and leaving it stock?Or getting bells/whistles as the budget allows?

BTW, I built my bird 870 myself for around $140, but I had a bbl and a few other parts.

And, GT, why would one need a synthetic stock when it comes with a perfectly good wooden one?

The Winchester slide release is in a different place, and that's what I don't like about it. While one can get used to it, fumbling around in the middle of an AS crisis is not my idea of fun.

Oleg, after training hundreds of rookies on the 870, I never had a shotgun AD, and that's with some of the most no shooting idiots on the planet.

But, this is still America(barely). If getting an inferior shotgun is what you really want, far be it from me to stop you...
 
It does seem ironic that the Winchester 1300 is not that well-known, while the older Model 12 commands premium prices. Me? An 870 and a Rem Model 31, made in 1932, that often gets mistaken for a Win Model 12.
 
Nothing wrong with a stock 870 Dave, I just already have one of those :) Getting another 870 defeats the purpose of buying new toys!

And I LIKE synthetic on a working gun. Nothing wrong with wood at all, most of my guns have it, but on riot guns and military semi's I like that evil black plastic :)

I just want to fool with another design is all. The Rem will probably stay as my house gun but I'm curious how the Winchester will perform. It's a longer barrel with an adjustable choke and rifle sights. I've had great luck with my 18" 870 with a full choke and I'm curious what, if any, effect the longer barel will have. Plus, I'd like to putz the the rifle sights too. I've always had beads on my shotguns. And I'm moving up in payload from 4 rounds to 8 :)

I don't really want to modify my existing gun and I'm not all that interested in a project gun either. If Rem offered a similar package to this Winchester, I'd probably give it look. Since they don't though the Win is tempting. All complete right off the shelf with no fuss and muss.

I dunno, I'm not looking at it for any serious work, I'm just one of those freaks that really LIKES to shoot shotguns :) I love banging steel plates with slugs and knocking around detergant jugs and pop bottles. I like to "plink" with .12.

I dunno, it's still only in the possibility stage at this point anyway. I have some other stuff on the burner I may pick up before I give this serious thought. Mostly I just wanted to get some feedback on the Winchesters in general. Like I said, it just seemed odd that they never really came up in shotgun discussions. There's always the Mossberg vs Remington fight but you rarely hear about anything else!
 
Clogbert, the Model 12, the 870, and the venerable Model 31 were all John Browning designs, at least in part. All three are balanced, smooth functioning and incredibly durable.

There's some Model 12s I know that are on their 4th generation of owners in the same family. One was a wedding present in 1916 or so.

And all require machined parts, tho the 870 less so. The bottom line comes in higher for these weapons,and the stamped part designs like the 1300 are less costly,and maybe less everything else also.

GT, if it's not for serious work, go ahead.
 
People who like AR15 handling would like the 1300. It has similar multi-lug bolt and same overall feeling. If you are the Garand/M14 loer, then I'd expect a 590/870 to win over...just my impression.
I got my 20ga gun to learn with it. I expect to be my only shotgun for a year or so. At that point, I either learn to use it well and get a 12ga or forget about shotguns in favor of rifles. One way or another, the 1300's durability ought to be sufficient for my uses.

Wonder how it would work for trap shooting next weekend :)
 
I have a few 1300 Winchesters, a 835 Mossberg,and some 870 Remingtons... I like them all. Sounds like you guys covered just about everything, except "the durability of the 1300"
Many years ago I won a 1300 N.W.T.F gun with a 22" barrel and a green laminated stock. This gun has been used! It has been used in the pouring rain, snow, bitter cold,
and hellish heat. It has been scratched,dropped, fallen on,and pumped so many times that the matte finish on the magazine tube wore to a "chrome like finish".
( since has been redone) I shot 2 3/4 and 3" mags out of it, and have killed everything from rabbits to turkeys with it. NOT ONE (1) PROBLEM WITH IT EVER!!!! PERIOD. Like I said before, I own and like many brands of shotguns, but my 1300 winchester turkey gun has been tough as nails!!! I'll argue this point until your' blue in the face!! If I was a LEO, I wouldn't think twice about using it!!
CJB
 
Excellent cjb! That's what I like to hear :) As I said I had 2 defenders in that past and had no problmes with either and my neighbor currently has the one. Most of my work with it was at the range though. I fired everything from trap loads to 3" mags and slugs with nary a hitch but it's good to know that in the field performance was just as good.
 
I have a 12ga model 1200 that I purchased in 1968......never had a problrm with it.

I don't know the difference between the 1200 and the 1300.....anyone care to comment?

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"Lead, follow or get the HELL out of the way."
 
DorgunR,
I think that the 1300 is just "the next generation" of the 1200. Few improvements were made, but I think that the major difference is that the 1300 has a 3" chamber, while the 1200 was 2 3/4" only. At least I never saw a 3" 1200. Hope this helped a little.
CJB
 
I'll weigh in with the happy 1300 users, but I want to agree as well with anybody who's talking about automatic response in a crisis. Since I've always hunted with a Winchester, it makes the most sense to have a Defender in the bedroom. Old habits locked in solidly are extremely valuable in a tense situation.

My Defender is reliable. Years of practice without a hitch. Other 1300s (so I hear) have had troubles from time to time. Same with 870s and 500s. Every company makes lemons to fuel the anecdote wars. Pointless.

Find a reliable unit and practice 'til it becomes automatic. Then stick to that type, and that unit.

Just my two cents.

Bill
 
My theory on the popularity goes like this. The US military used 870's for years and replaced them recently with mossbergs. Police departments are usually chock full of ex military and it follows that police departments far and wide used 870's and still do.

You combine the two, current/ex military and all the cops and you end up with a large segment of the population who through their jobs have learned to trust the 870. These same people end up influencing children, brothers cousins, etc. and after a while POOF! you have massively ingrained brand loyalty.

With large contracts to military and police, remington could afford to offer their guns a just a little cheaper(not currently the case where I live).

One reason, IMHO, the older models of winchester are still popular today is because there where so many of them in service in WW1 era and in prison/police use early in the century. I know of some Federal prison guards that said they still had some of them in service as of 10 or so years ago.
 
I just bought the 1300 at Big5 for $249. It was a $40 savings from reg price and $20 down from the gun show price. One of the local dealers recommended it over the Moss500. I was going to post my own topic on this subject but it appears that its hear for me already. So it sounds like I should be able to get the pistol grip stock and sidesaddle, anything else? I would consider changing the brown pump grip to black and stock if possible to match my Glocks.
smile.gif

Any other comments on this shotgun would be appreciated.

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First there was the Heaven and Earth then there was the Glock 20

www.neondream.com
 
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