Winchester Model 70

I own a customized Winchester 670 in 35 Whelen. The 670 was priced a little less than the model 70 back in the late 1960's to early 70's. Yet this rifle shares many of the remarkable features of the model 70. It is accurate, reliable, and safe.

Jack
 
I have never understood the term push feed, they all push feed, all of them
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Yes, they all push the round into the chamber, but there is a difference.

Controlled round feed means that the rim of the case rises up underneath the extractor as the bolt pushes it forward out of the magazine. The case is under "control" of the extractor from the instant it leaves the magazine.

This is the classic Mauser system and what was used in the pre-64 model 70s.

Push feed means the bolt pushes the round into the chamber and then when the case stops, the extractor snaps over the rim. In some guns, the bolt must be turned down to have this happen. The case is not under control of the extractor UNTIL it is chambered. (and often not until the action locks).

This is a widely used system with variations involving extractor size, shape, and placement. Remington, Savage and others use it.

Some believe the large, non rotating Mauser type extractor is superior. It may be so, but millions of guns over many decades has not shown any significant practical inferiority to the push feed designs.
 
Some believe the large, non rotating Mauser type extractor is superior. It may be so, but millions of guns over many decades has not shown any significant practical inferiority to the push feed designs.
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The only advantage I can think of for a Mauser-type claw extractor is the larger claw of the extractor is less likely to slip-off a fired, stuck casing.
 
It was recently pointed out on this forum that controlled round feed was also developed as a safety measure, to prevent a double feed in military rifles. If ya cycle the bolt far enough to strip a round out of the magazine with a push feed action, the shell is free to slide into the chamber. And if ya move the bolt back again, you can strip another shell out of the mag and jam it into the one already chambered. In some cases the point of this bullet could strike the primer & set it off (especially with fmj military ammo) with the bolt open.

This is probably less of a concern on target and sporting rifles, but in the hell of combat I'm sure strange things could happen. I remember when I toured Gettysburg, they said rifles were found after the battle that had 7 charges of bullet & powder that were rammed on top of each other in the barrel.
 
the possum said:
It was recently pointed out on this forum that controlled round feed was also developed as a safety measure, to prevent a double feed in military rifles. If ya cycle the bolt far enough to strip a round out of the magazine with a push feed action, the shell is free to slide into the chamber. And if ya move the bolt back again, you can strip another shell out of the mag and jam it into the one already chambered. In some cases the point of this bullet could strike the primer & set it off (especially with fmj military ammo) with the bolt open.

This is probably less of a concern on target and sporting rifles, but in the hell of combat I'm sure strange things could happen. I remember when I toured Gettysburg, they said rifles were found after the battle that had 7 charges of bullet & powder that were rammed on top of each other in the barrel.
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That's interesting! I've never felt the difference in the two mattered that much. Have had a lot of push feed rifler and a decent number of controlled round rifles. Never had a problem with either but I read some guy's for some reason have a huge problem with push feed rifles. That military reason makes perfect sense.
 
grump09

In reference to mod 70 actions being all the same lengths ( pre 64)? I have a 1940 Roberts and the follower seems short as there is a home made block behind it. The ejection port appears correct as an 06 cartridge is too long. Is there a metal factory block missing? It feeds .257 fine but something is amiss
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Early .257 Winchester Roberts Model 70s had short magazine followers, a spacer in the rear of the magazine, and a bolt stop extension for the 57mm round in a 63mm action. Why you have a homemade block, I don't know.

It was fairly commonly done to substitute .30-06 parts so the Roberts could be loaded to as long an OAL as the chamber throat would take.
The real enthusiasts would throat the chamber out so as to load the Roberts to magazine length with 120 gr spitzer bullets.
 
I love all my Winchester Model 70s. And I think the new ones are even better than the old.

If you can get your hands on the Extreme Weather version, do it!
 
Some believe the large, non rotating Mauser type extractor is superior. It may be so, but millions of guns over many decades has not shown any significant practical inferiority to the push feed designs.
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The only advantage I can think of for a Mauser-type claw extractor is the larger claw of the extractor is less likely to slip-off a fired, stuck casing.
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If you feed your rounds from the magazine the claw extractor will last longer than a push feed. If you require the claw to snap over the cartridge rim it will likely break around the same time as the push feed extractor. I have had a M1903 extractor break in this way and others have had claw extractors break. The early Ruger pseudo Mauser M77 had a claw which snapped over the rim. The early M77 were in fact push feed actions with a Mauser looking claw extractor but it was not controlled round feed. You spend some time looking on the web, there are a number of posts from owners looking for one of the those rare extractors, because theirs broke!

When I pulled targets with AMU, USMC, and Army Reserve guys, their M16's wore out push feed extractors. These guys fired thousands if not tens of thousands of rounds per month. Other things wore out to, so it is not a knock against push feed extractors. The push feed M70 would wear out its extractor. Instead of holding the cartridge against the bolt face, the extracted cartridge would fall off into the action causing a stove pipe jam. I helped a guy with a M70 push feed replace his extractor on the firing line. The match director was a gunsmith, had a box of M70 extractors, and we carefully made sure the spring loaded pin did not roll out into the grass as we changed the extractor out. M70 push feed extractors are different, I don't know how to categorize them, but there are model variations. M700 Remington extractors are one of the weakest push feed extractor designs. They wear out and you have to make sure the bolt face does not have crud impacted into the recesses because the Rem 700 extractor will break if it can't flex.

I like the claw. Primarily I like claw extractor mechanisms because I can open the bolt, pull it back, and the actions do not have a spring loaded ejector which flings the brass way out in front of the firing line. Instead I can just bump the case out of the action on to the bench.

Dumoulin Mauser 98 extractor claw

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I like M70's. It is always a hoot when the things shoot straight, all the way out to 600 yards. Now who was it that said the 30-06 can't shoot straight?

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I have one of the PBR's, Patrol Bolt Rifles. These were the last M70's assembled at New Haven, I think the parts were made elsewhere.

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Had four M70's, advoid the "Black Shadow" variants, one I had was 7mmRem Mag and would not group commercial 150 gr ammo on a paper plate.
The other are wood stocks, [2 walnur, third is male] like them all.

first is a post64-first series vairant, that had no guide slot on the bolt lug, in 7mmEM, second if 1970' era, with the guide slot, third is a contacted M70 sold to sear, Roebuck, marketed as the Ted Williams M73, with a "U" SN not the "G" sn of the seocipnd series post 64's. Its' a 30-06 and I think Ill get a .35 WHelan barrel made aand mated to the action.
 
I have a couple Winchester M70s, all are excellent:

Pre-64 270
early post 64 22-250 heavy barrel
Classic 300 WM Stainless/Walnut
Classic 7mm RM Sporter
Classic 6.5x55 Featherweight
FN 25-06 Supergrade
FN 264 WM sporter
FN 270 Supergrade (eldest son)
FN 30-06 Sporter (youngest son)
FN 243 Coyote Light

...and a first year production M54 (2 digit s/n)

You won't go wrong with a Winchester M70

Jerry
 
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