Winchester Fail-Safe bullets?

I've used them since the early ninety's and love them. I bought a box of nearly every shell offered in 92 and my RemSS 7MM shoots the fail safes the best. I've taken mule deer out to 320 yards and 4 elk from various yardages with one shot each. Not one of them traveled more than 30 yards after the shot. I love this bullet!

Problem----They no longer make it and I'm upset. I've looked all over the internet for remaining supplies of the 180 gr shells and cant find any. I guess I will have to spend the money and do my shooting with each shell again to find the one my gun likes the best.

I remember an elk hunt in colorado the year that Federal came out with their new shell that was supposed to be the sh*t. I bought a box to try and hated them. Same grain but my gun wouldnt hit the broadside of a barn. Put one of the fail safes in and busted a squirrel at over a 150yrds.

Does anyone have a line on where I might pick up some of these rounds? I would stock up if i could find them.
 
I thought the Black Talon was a pistol bullet...???

The replacement is the same but no longer black... Ranger???

Did they make a rifle bullet called the Balck Talon too???
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Click to expand...

They did make rifle ammo called Black Talons as well...

blacktalonrifleammo.jpg
 
I'm going out elk hunting with 180gr .308 Fail Safes this year. I've been using 180gr Barnes XLCs with great success but am switching for a couple of reasons: First, I am a handloader, I like to tinker and try new things. I have 100 180gr Fail Safe bullets sitting on my shelf asking to be shot. Second, I have been having the same experience as you with my kills with the Barnes...no exit.

My elk kills, all pretty clean kills (save one), have resulted in no exit. I'd prefer one.

I took a bunch of bullets out into the woods and shot them into wet phone books. No, not scientific at all, but at least it gives potential comparisons.

The 180gr Fail Safe penetrated the most, followed by a tie between the 180gr Partition Gold and 220gr Partition. (surprisingly, my 1:12 twist .308 fires 220s accurately up to 200 yards.) Next was the Barnes bullets followed by 180gr E Tip, 180gr Partition, then 180gr Core Lokt.

I agree with previous post that firing 50 yards away is probably why your bullet did not exit. My kills have been under 100 yards, and I may expecting too much from my little .308 in terms of penetration, but I'm going to keep working in the "lab" to find out...you should too.

My Barnes kills have netted a couple of beautifully expanded bullets; they open as advertised. However, I have seen petals shear off as well, so they are not perfect.

I do understand your desire to get the through-and-through. Two years ago I made a poor shot and wounded an elk, tracked her for 8 hours before we lost the trail. Never found her and I'm sick to this day about it. Keep tinkering.

Tom
 
anyone know where to buy failsafe bullets?

i have used a number of bullets obviously with varied results. But this last november i watche my brother shoot a failsafe from a 30-06 ackley improved at 2800 fps about 200 yds into the right hind leg hitting the bone that continued through the oppsosit front shoulder before getting stuck in the the hide on a 4 point bull. when we got the bullet home it retained 171gr/180gr. to me theres no better bullet. if anyone knows where to buy them i am more than interested.
 
Winchester has replaced the FailSafe
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Indeed. It is now only available in the 350(?)gr .375" variety. All other calibers and weights have been discontinued; with the .375" being discontinued this year, I believe. (You can still find retailer stock in most stores. It's not a fast-moving bullet.)
 
You saw the carcass and I did not, but I would guess the bullet got caught in or just beyond the opposite shoulder under the hide, , which would be a pretty hefty piece of bone and muscle on an elk which might help to explain why it didn't exit.

BTW
I did not know that Black Talon's were available as a rifle bullet!!!!!!!!!!!

Back to the OP. The "failsafe" had a partitioned, hardened rear core which I want to say was steel, but I could be mistaken. My understanding was that it was a controlled expansion bullet "plus" for use on big animals, like elk and bear, and not a whitetail bullet, though it would certainly do the job when applied right. Most of the big name gun writers were high on it as an enhancer to your favorite caliber for big animals. BARSNESS liked it in '06/165 for elk (maybe it was 180?) and SEIFRIED liked it in .270, calling it the best .270 bullet ever made, in an article in the early 90's.

What little use I have seen on whitetails indicates that they are a "harder" bullet and do not offer as much expansion on our 125-150 lb deer as std soft points, ballistic tips, or the old original silvertip.

With that hardened rear core, you might call it a "Partition on steroids".

Am I understanding the bullet is being discontinued?????????
 
I want an exit wound

on my deer that is, to track easier,
plus where's all that lead go if it doesn't exit? (not a real concern just hate giving the anti's more "ammunition" pun intended)

posted this on another thread;

Have always shot Remington Core-Lokt 150 gr in my 30-30 and .308 and no complaints.
I recently got the 30-30 back from dad and handed down to my son. He just took a mature doe, 100 lbs dressed weight, at 50 yds with Federal Power-shok. It was all the local store had. While the deer was as dead as any I was less than impressed with the bullet.
It hit a rib square just behind the shoulder and left no clear exit hole. Very little blood sign tho she only went 50 yds and piled up. Up butchering it appears the bullet fragmented and just peppered the cavity with little pieces, a lot of damage just under the skin around the entrance hole. Lost a lot of meat off that shoulder.
anyone else use this ammo? normal?
 
doesn't sound right

That doesn't sound right. I wonder if the bullet clipped something prior to hitting the deer, and so was unstable prior impact? Was it an open shot or brushy?

I'd think a 150/30-30 would sail right through a 100 lb whitetail at reasonable distance (under 100-150)
 
I recently got the 30-30 back from dad and handed down to my son. He just took a mature doe, 100 lbs dressed weight, at 50 yds with Federal Power-shok...
...It hit a rib square just behind the shoulder and left no clear exit hole. Very little blood sign tho she only went 50 yds and piled up. Up butchering it appears the bullet fragmented and just peppered the cavity with little pieces, a lot of damage just under the skin around the entrance hole....
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50 yards + PowerShok = failure.

It's not a knock against you, your dad, or your son. It's just the way the ammo is. I believe they are now loading the PowerShok line with low-end Speer soft points. However, some of the first runs had Winchester Power Points as the projectile (odd combination, I know). I hate Power Points, but think it might be a slightly better choice than the Speer; as far as expansion (consistency is another issue - no two power points are ever the same).

Either way, you're looking at terrible performance, at that range. The velocity causes the bullet to open too fast. Then, it strikes a rib (while fully expanded), and completely disintegrates.

Bottom line: The shooter was too close with a "weak" bullet design. If close shots are the norm, invest in some 'controlled expansion' ammo.
If close shots are uncommon; stick with what you know, and be prepared for explosive expansion of cheaper cup-and-core bullets.

(For the record - I'm not an uppity, my-bullet-is-better-than-your-bullet, kind of guy. My favorite bullet is the Remington Core-Lokt, and I took a Doe Antelope with 100gr Federal PowerShok ammo in my .243 a few years back. It's just the way expansion works...)
 
Federal Power Shok

Thanks gents.
Shot was wide open, probably less than 50 yds. Didn't mention that 2 weeks before he shot a little button buck with the Federal at maybe 75 yds broke the shoulder and the bullet did exit.
Like I said Remington Core-lokt has always worked well and not going to be switching ammo based on the distance, so i'll be sticking with that, guess I'll save the rest of this box for shooting old canned goods (talk about fun).
Curious is Federal cutting costs? had trouble with their .22 casings failing to eject from my Marlin I'm thinking thinner casings, swell up too much to get out.
 
I read in a shooting mag somewhere that the core Lokt was thought of as the best cup and core std bullet in its class.

A 100 lb white tail is not a very big animal. To think that a 150 @ 30-30 velocity went to pieces on skin and a rib at 50 yds is a bit disturbing.

I loaded some 150 FN 30-30 bullets in .308 Win for a guy one time, he wanted some "reduced recoil" ammo for his boys, and I had the FN's (Hornady's) on the shelf. I reduced the load to book minimums, say 2500 fps, maybe a bit less.

Guy reported that they killed like lightning, and often did not exit. Wanted me to load some more. 'Course they were running about 500 fps over 30-30 vels.

And I have gotten us a long way from the OP, sorry
 
at high velocity and close range, that bullet likely broke apart. I used to use the nosler accubond CT from winchester in my 7mm. It was claimed that they wouldnt break apart. :rolleyes: they have really good accuracy in my gun, but ruin way too much meat. the only times the bullet didnt absolutely destroy the animal was at 200 yards plus. Im getting into hand loads now, and will be using the barnes TSX bullet. Have read great things about them, and i doubt they will ever break apart, unless they hit steel.
 
My uncle swears by them in 30'06. I stick to the more basic 308 Winchester in 150 grains soft points. I shot a doe for the freezer with the soft points and she dropped in her tracks. I waited and about five minutes later here comes a four pointer that I hit with a Fail Safe; he flipped backwards, got up and took off running with a broken right front leg. I never found him. It might have been that I zeroed the rifle(M-77 Ruger) with the soft points and the Fail Safes were of a different grain or powder charge. I don't know but from now on I'm sticking with the rounds that have worked best for me; they're not sexy looking like the Fail Safes or XP-3s but they do the job.
 
I had purchased a box of Black Talon in 300win mag. Nickel case, black teflon coated bullet. Very hot load. Only time I have been brused. Could not find any consistency with it.

I hit a mule deer with my 300, standard Federal soft point. Lots of damage, no exit, no fragments (I did the butchering and wraping).I uspect the bullet ened up in an organ that was discarded at gutting.
 
ive shot a couple big white tail does with my 7mm loaded up with 150gr sbt game kings.

at 150, and 220 yards. both exited, large exit hole. neither went more than a couple of steps.
 
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