Will your deer rifle help you in a pinch in case a bear attacks you?

[Pistoler0]

Right on about the handgun. Always amazed me that someone carrying say a 30-06 in bear country would also carry a handgun for bear protection. I am amazed as it sounds like it they are attacked by a bear they are going to throw down their rifle and pull their six shooter out! Absolutely amazing!

But the issue with the rifle for self protection is access and availability. When hunting, one is not walking the woods with the rifle constantly at the ready. There is hikes, climbs, there is glassing, there is eating/drinking, there is loading and unloading of gear, preparing camp, there is looking at maps, there is the need to answer nature's call.....

In the scenario that the OP presents, and as far as stopping power goes, the rifle is the preferred choice for defense. However, 50 yards could be too small a distance to deploy it. Keep in mind that people with hunting rifles often get mauled when they have to put the rifle down for whatever reason (most often field dressing an animal). In addition, hunting rifles are/should be carried WITHOUT a round in the chamber (when there is no shooting opportunity) which adds time to their use for self defense.

I've never had a problem with bears while actively hunting, but I've had bears roam the camp site while inside my tent. I think that sleeping in a tent is the most vulnerable situation that you can be in when out in the bush. And in that situation, a pistol is what you want for self defense IMHO.


Incidentally the reason why I got into firearms (specially pistols) was that a bear surprised my better half and me when walking back to camp after a soak in our birth suits in a natural spring. I was an archer back then, and the bear turned me into Pistoler0. : ) Thank you bear.

 

[Pistoler0]

I'd like to re-post again on this thread because the issue of hunting firearms for self defense is one that often gets raised by anti 2A people who are against firearms that are designed exclusively for self defense, such as pistols, repeating rifles and carbines and so on.

What I tell my city-slicker, nature loving, Denver friends in conversations on this topic is that when you are venturing about in a place where there can be dangerous animals, it is irresponsible not to carry a pistol for self defense. Specially when camping in remote areas with family, kids, etc.

In addition, IF you are hunting, you have to carry your hunting tackle: bow and arrow or rifle. But although hunting tackle can be useful in a self defense scenario, it is not best suited for it.

 

[FrankenMauser]

Carry and use what you are comfortable with.
I hunt UT, ID, and WY.
Sometimes, I carry a 9mm or .327 Federal. Sometimes, I carry a .44 Mag. Occasionally, it is a .480 Ruger.
The big bores are more of a backup / short-range option for hunting than specifically defense-oriented.

Generally speaking, you are more likely to be faced by a threat from two-legged predators than the four-legged type.

 

[HiBC]

Considering Bella Twin took a world record griz in 1953 with a single shot 22 using 22 longs, if you know how to use whichever rifle the OP suggested you will be fine.

Long go I read Bella's story in Kanut's book. She was carrying a single shot 22 and running her trap line. All the sudden,the bear was just there. It was a desperate act of defiance. The 22 long is loaded with a 29 gr bullet.

Thats all well and good. So,tell me,if YOU were going to Alaska Grizzly country,would you feel a single shot 22 long was adequate for YOU? I just do not understand the relevance.

A Colorado bow hunter was jumped by a Grizzly in southern Colorado and he managed to stab the bear with an arrow,killing it.

Shall we recommend carrying an arrow,just in case?

I think reliable penetration is important IF you are seriously thinking in terms of bear protection.

I don't think a belted magnum is required. A 30-40Krag,or 303 British,or 7x57 all could be adequate.

I'd call a 100 gr softpoint load from a wonderful 250-3000 an unreliable act of desperation.

I might prefer bear spray.

That said, I'd be far more concerned about being exposed on a high ridge when weather snuck over the top. I don't know what gun you use to shoot lightning.
Yes,Ive been stuck up under a low juniper,a sudden white out snow squall with purple flash,tearing sheet,KABOOM lightning snapping all around me.

Then there are stinking little ticks with Lyme disease.

Anywhere in life,there are risks. We arm for our fears.

 

[Paul B.]

I do believe that if I was deer hunting in and area known to have bears, that I would be adequately armed. I usually do an elk hunt on a private ranch in New Mexico and there is the possibility of a Mountain Lion or Black bear but that's all. Most of the time my rifle is a .35 Whelen with 225 gr. Barnes TSX bullets so no worries about inadequate power. I think that if I were to do a deer hunt in the area the OP stated, my .35 Whelen would be more than adequate. Still, I would also consider being my .44 Mag. handgun along as back up or for those chores around camp where carrying the rifle would be a handicap. Probably the lightest weight .44 I have is my Ruger old model flattop. A bit of a handful with Elmer Keith top hand loads but would certainly do the job.

There is a story in and old Outdoor Life Magazine where a Canadian was crossing a narrow gully o a log and met with a Grizzly Bear crossing on the log coming right at him. All he had was his Winchester M94 30-30 and killed the bear with one shot though the head. That's the good news. The bad? If he had not shot the bear in the head putting a hole in the skull, it would have tied the Boone and Crockett world record Grizzly. That gully was quite deep and he had a very heavy backpack so jumping off the log was not an option.
Paul B.

 

[Scorch]

Man, this is going to be a long answer.

Scorch, might a moose hunter possibly run into a bear?

Sure! And you might run into a bear when going to take a dump, or when you are gutting a downed animal, or while you are fishing (which is most common because bears hang out where the food is). But apex predators are few and far between usually. You've seen the food pyramid, the bear is at the top (that's why they're called "apex predators"). A customer of mine was a guide in AK for 13 years, and he said you never know where you might run into a bear. Usually, they are just as surprised as you are and run away. Sounds to me like you are afraid of bears!

Over in Africa, the most dangerous animals and the hardest ones to gun down are: the cape buffalo, the elephant, the charging lion in thick savanna bush and the rhino.

Over in Africa, the most dangerous animals other than mosquitos and snakes are hippos and crocs, they kill more people than anything except the insects. Why? Because they live close to where people live (close to water), so there are many times more opportunities to run into them while going about your daily work. Sure, elephants, rhino, Cape buffalo and lions are nothing to sneer at, but the chances of running into one are very slim unless you are out sneaking through the bush. And again, they want to get away from you as quickly as possible. Unless you sneak up on one, in which case you better have a rifle.

One might want to dispatch a wounded game animal with a sidearm. There might be a defensive situation while out hunting where a sidearm is quicker to handle than a long gun.

OK, let me put down this fully capable rifle and draw my cumbersome handgun to put down an animal I knocked down with my rifle. Nope, not me. Oh, it's not dead? Bang. Done. I've actually done it. Or just grab it by the ear and use a knife on the brain stem.

Any one heard any credible reports about grizzly bears harassing deer hunters? I've heard unsubstantiated reports that in areas where both bear and elk share habitat, a rifle shot has become a dinner bell for bears.

I have heard reports of bears coming to the sound of a gunshot. They are predators and scavengers and have learned that there is food where that sound comes from. But I have also spoken with game biologists that say the bears approach carefully because they understand that noise means death to them as well. The hunters usually never know they're there. Once the hunters leave, the gut pile disappears pretty fast.

However, 50 yards could be too small a distance to deploy it.

Can I accurately deploy a rifle at 50 yds? Sure, done it several times. And a lot more accurately than a handgun. Especially when hunting. There are no shooting benches out in the field, so you learn to shoot without a rest.

Keep in mind that people with hunting rifles often get mauled when they have to put the rifle down for whatever reason (most often field dressing an animal). In addition, hunting rifles are/should be carried WITHOUT a round in the chamber (when there is no shooting opportunity) which adds time to their use for self defense.

Yes, I've read about people getting jumped while field dressing game, but if were a common thing it would be written about more. If I'm hunting, that rifle is carried with a round in the chamber. In fact, unless I'm just out to shoot a Bambi, the rifle is ready at all times, even if I just shot my deer. I unload it when I get back to camp or the vehicle.

Now if you're camping and you want a sidearm, sure, go ahead and carry. If I'm hunting with a rifle in hand, I'm not carrying around an extra 3-4 pounds of handgun I would have to set my rifle down to use. I'll carry another 20 rounds of ammo for the same weight, just in case I get mass frontal attacked by tactical varmints.

 

[Mainah]

Moose ruin more people's days than bison. The only way you're going to get into trouble with bison is by being stupid, getting too close, and provoking the animal(s).
But moose will stomp you just for wearing a t-shirt that they don't like.

Yup, and even if they like your shirt that's no guarantee. I had a buddy who got treed by a bull while he was deer hunting. Maybe he could have shot in self-defense. But climbing a tree is a lot easier than the conversation with a Game Warden would have been.

 

[Pistoler0]

Man, this is going to be a long answer.

Hey, great job answering to all those replies!

A couple of things I wanted to comment on:

1)

<<Quote: Pistoler0 However, 50 yards could be too small a distance to deploy it.>>

Can I accurately deploy a rifle at 50 yds? Sure, done it several times. And a lot more accurately than a handgun. Especially when hunting. There are no shooting benches out in the field, so you learn to shoot without a rest.

When I was talking about the difficulty in deploying the rifle when in your scenario the bear charges from 50 yds away, I wasn't referring to aiming. I was rather thinking about the time it takes for someone to turn around, un-sling the rifle from the shoulder and line it up to aim at the threat. I mean I know that this clip is Hollywood, but it is very well done: Revenant, bear charge
In my opinion a hip holstered pistol would give you quicker access and would allow you to defend yourself even WHILE being attacked.

I think that the pistol is a more useful defense tool if you are ambushed, but sure, use the rifle if you can.


2)

Yes, I've read about people getting jumped while field dressing game, but if were a common thing it would be written about more. If I'm hunting, that rifle is carried with a round in the chamber. In fact, unless I'm just out to shoot a Bambi, the rifle is ready at all times, even if I just shot my deer. I unload it when I get back to camp or the vehicle.

Now if you're camping and you want a sidearm, sure, go ahead and carry. If I'm hunting with a rifle in hand, I'm not carrying around an extra 3-4 pounds of handgun I would have to set my rifle down to use. I'll carry another 20 rounds of ammo for the same weight, just in case I get mass frontal attacked by tactical varmints.

AFAIK most hunting rifles are not drop safe. You should not go about your day doing stuff in the oudoors, climbing, walking, collecting wood etc with a chambered rifle slung over your shoulder, it is an accident waiting to happen.
I had a accidental discharge with a Savage rifle that had a round in the chamber and the safety engaged, when as I proceeded to sit down on a rock I un-slung the rifle from my shoulder: when holding the rifle by its forestock and as I set its butt on that same rock pointing skywards, it went off.

Also, you do not need to set down your shoulder slung rifle to deploy your pistol!

But anyway since your OP asked <<Will your deer rifle help you in a pinch in case a bear attacks you? >> my humble answer is that YES, it will most definitely help you, but if the attack catches you by surprise it could be difficult or impossible to deploy.

 

[HiBC]

Pistolero : We agree that its a bad idea to carry a slung rifle with a round in the chamber.
But when I'm hunting,I carry my rifle in my hands.

And,FWIW, I'm pretty careful about setting up my rifle for fit. When I shoulder the rifle,I have my sights.

Imagine hunting pheasants with the shotgun slung and an empty chamber!!

IMO,carrying a rifle is not so different.

 

[Scorch]

I mean I know that this clip is Hollywood, but it is very well done: Revenant, bear charge

Yeah, well, like you said, Hollywood. In real life you don't get several re-takes, and there is no CGI. While I have not had to defend myself from a bear charge, I hunted wild pigs in thick brush for a number of years, and shot several when they ran from extremely close range. You can deploy a rifle as fast as a handgun. Of course, I am not a quick-draw artist.

In my opinion a hip holstered pistol would give you quicker access and would allow you to defend yourself even WHILE being attacked.

A hip-holstered pistol is underneath a shoulder-slung rifle's butt when walking or climbing. When hunting, I carry my rifle in my hands (if I'm carrying a revolver it's in a cross-draw holster). The main reason I shoulder carry a rifle is if I'm glassing. In thick brush there is no need to use binos, you can't see anything, so I would have the rifle in my hands. If you do get attacked, your hands are going to be pretty busy.

Just for g&g, let's assume you are carrying a hip holstered pistol and a rifle. Your rifle is in the way of the handgun, so you have to drop or set down the rifle in order to deploy your handgun. A bear can cover 50 yds in about 2 seconds or less. Next time you're out shooting somewhere other than the range, try it. Slung rifle, handgun in a hip holster, drop the rifle, draw and shoot in less than 2 seconds.

AFAIK most hunting rifles are not drop safe.

Many, many rifles are drop safe. I hunt with a Mauser 98, definitely drop safe. A Savage, not so much, things are held in place with springs. Mauser 98 safety blocks the firing pin, not going off with the firing pin captured.

But hey, you do it any way you like, I'm just telling you about my experience.

 

[Pistoler0]

When hunting, I carry my rifle in my hands

Whoa. All the time. For how many hours?

Just for g&g, let's assume you are carrying a hip holstered pistol and a rifle. Your rifle is in the way of the handgun, so you have to drop or set down the rifle in order to deploy your handgun. [...] try it. Slung rifle, handgun in a hip holster, drop the rifle, draw and shoot in less than 2 seconds.

Ok here, rifle slung on either side, the rifle is not in the way of my handgun and I don't need to set it down to deploy the pistol quickly:

I didn't want to draw and shoot, but I wouldn't need to put the rifle down.
You are going to say that this is in summer clothes, but it would be the same in winter, the garments I use are such that the pistol is "open carried". And if I ever hunted in temperatures way below freezing (which I don't) I also have a thigh holster. Please don't ask me to prove it with another picture, my wife is already thinking that I lost my mind.

Besides when afield hiking to my hunting spot, the rifle is carried in the backpack. Like this:

(That is not me by the way)

Anyway I don't stay in one place when I hunt (I don't do tree stands or blinds), and I don't have my rifle in my hands, loaded and at the ready all the time. The way I carry my rifle, in the unlikely event of a surprise bear charge I would be quicker with my pistol.

So my answer to the OP is that a hunting rifle definitely can do the job of stopping a charging bear, but depending on what you are doing when the bear charges (i.e. collecting firewood) and how you carry your rifle, it may be difficult to bring it to use. At least for me.

But hey, you do it any way you like, I'm just telling you about my experience.

I know, and I appreciate that, I'm doing the same thing.
.

 

[HiBC]

Pistolero, I've lived in Colorado since 1966. I've been on just a few elk,deer,and antelope hunts. Rabbits,pheasants,etc,too.

There is walking,and there is hunting. If I'm hunting,my rifle is in my hands.
And while I might sit a stand quietly ,I also still hunt ...move slowly,quietly,look and listen a lot.

If I'm just diddy bopping in the woods.I can take a break from hunting and sling my rifle.Or if I'm packing meat.(Age has probably ended that,however!)

Actually,a sling has another use besides carry strap. Properly used,it helps you place a shot.

If my rifle is slung,I might be in the woods on my way someplace,but I'm not hunting.

I'm not a Veteran,but,except for having an enemy who wants to kill you, hunting is like being point man.

 

[Pistoler0]

We might be neighbors, HiBC : )

I wonder if anybody in this forum is also a member of the Buffalo Creek Gun Club, we probably have the most beautiful shooting range in the whole US, out in Pike National Forest near Bailey.

But lets keep it a secret before everybody and their cousin in Denver learns about it and starts coming up here.

 

[HiBC]

I'm north of you a ways.
No disrespect to you,or where you live,but I go years between trips south of about Loveland or Greeley

Thats getting closer to Denver and Boulder.

That is a beautiful range.

 

[GeauxTide]

A Grizzly closes at 30mph, so one shot. 250 and 270 may kill the bear, but not until you're dead. My rule is if I hunt anywhere that I could be eaten, a 450 Bushmaster with 300gr Deep Curls and I always carry my Ruger 45 Colt with 285gr SWC.

 

[old roper]

PisolerO, not sure how long you lived in Co but lot of history

Welcome to the Camp Fickes Shooting Range
in Bailey, Colorado
Home of the Buffalo Creek Gun Club

 

[Pistoler0]

PisolerO, not sure how long you lived in Co but lot of history

Welcome to the Camp Fickes Shooting Range
in Bailey, Colorado
Home of the Buffalo Creek Gun Club

Aaha!

Old Roper, in CO since 1988. I came here from faaaar abroad chasing a skirt.
Never left.

 

[Scorch]

my wife is already thinking that I lost my mind.

Yep, my wife is absolutely sure I have.

All the time. For how many hours?

My last hunt was 7 hours straight before takiing a lunch break (6am-1pm). Yes, I often stop to glass or grab a drink or a snack, so my arms get a break every so often. I can carry a 8 lbs rifle a long time. If my hand gets tired, I can switch hands.

Besides when afield hiking to my hunting spot, the rifle is carried in the backpack. Like this:

I've seen people carry rifles like that, but that would be somewhat slow and involve a lot of movement to get into action if you spot game. There was a system sold many years ago that used velcro straps to strap the rifle to the pack. Only slightly faster to get into action. Very European carry method, the rifle stays out of the way until you get to a stand or the guide tells you to shoot.

Ok here, rifle slung on either side, the rifle is not in the way of my handgun and I don't need to set it down to deploy the pistol quickly:

That's not shoulder slung, that is chest or back slung. I would never carry a rifle like that unless I was dragging an animal. Again, the rifle would be very slow to get into action. Try slinging it over your right shoulder and see how it feels.

I'm not knocking your ideas, just commenting. I hunt very lean, I carry nothing I will not use. A fanny pack with ammo, knives, para cord, GPS, snacks, water. If I am goinjg a long ways or just covering ground, I may carry a rucksack with shelter, sleeping bag, etc. When hunting, I know for a fact I will use my rifle. A handgun? Not so sure. I have carried a handgun backpacking and hiking, just seems redundant when you are better armed to have to carry a short-range weapon. But if it works for you, go for it.

 

[44 AMP]

I would point out that while we use the same word, there is a significant difference between carrying a rifle and a handgun.

You carry your deer rifle, in your hands, or on a strap when slung. Generally its 7+lbs and over a meter long, and gets set down at every convenient opportunity.

You wear a pistol. In some kind of holster, and it stays on your person (and so within reach) at nearly all times. IT's there for all those times when your rifle is out of reach.

 

[Radny97]

I would suggest that the deer rifle is not only a good choice but the best choice, assuming it is within rapid reach at the time of the attack.


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